Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?
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Quassar said: Mt.28:19 and 1 Jn.5:7 is an alteration and an additive, respectively as the Scripture prove in the following:…
…Jesus would never have made a statement like the present day translation, because He knew very well His Father was/is the Holy Spirit, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk,1:35. Jesus stated that His Father lived in Him doing His work, in Jn.14:10, clearly revealing His Father to be the Holy Spirit.
Fredoheaven: Exactly here is “conjectural emendation” – an educated guesswork…nothing has been proven in regards to the issue. BTW, how can the Holy Spirit be the God the Father when the Holy Spirit comes from the Father and by which the Father will send just like Jesus? In John 14:26 Jesus said,” But the Comforter , which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things and bring you all things to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you.
Quassar said: In addition, the practice of baptism by the Apostles, was always in the name of Jesus Christ, confirming the prophecy of John the Baptist, in Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16 and Jn.1:33, as found in Acts 2:38. Never in the triune theology Godhead of Father, Son and Holy Spirit - for the above Scriptural reasons.
Fredoheaven: This is construed that “baptism in name of Jesus Christ” by the apostles never contradicts what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19. It should be noted that somehow the Apostles have done terrible things why they did not obey what Jesus said. However, not a slightest chance has ever affected what the Apostles did in their obedience to the Great Commission. The formula of baptism is still true in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. What the Apostles did as it was recorded in Acts 2:38 were done in the authority (name) of Jesus Christ that any believers were said to be baptized of what Jesus Christ really said. And what Jesus really said? Believers were to be baptized “…in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”, moreover, Jesus said “All power is given unto me…” and said to his disciples “…if you love me keep my commandments” John 14:15 and Christ commandments about baptism is to baptize believers as it is said coming from the lips of our Saviour-that’s what the record says. SOLA SRIPTURA!
Quassar said: In regards to 1 Jn.5:7, it is a late Latin insert of about the 12th century. It does not appear in any of the early Greek mss.
Fredoheaven: What you are insinuating is about “early” Gk. Mss. Antiquity is not all the basis to appear it’s the correct reading or concrete evidence, for a 4[SUP]th[/SUP] ce. extant Gk. Mss could be a representative of a mutilated, corrupt or depraved text but a later Greek mss may be said to be an exact representative of the pure text or the original autographs. To be straight, you are just referring to the corrupt Vaticanus (B) or the Sinaticus (Aleph) and few more. The external evidence and internal evidence, theological considerations and by the universal consent however, I believe it is to be retained. (Review the site I just provided) or believe what the Scriptures says. SOLA SCRIPTURA!
Quassar said: That the above views come from only a"few critics/agnostics is nothing but opinion as the two verses are actively debated by many who do not hokld to the doctrine of the Trinity. The Scriptures prove them both to be false.
Fredoheaven: Yes, the point is all about your opinion, is not really the Word of God! SOLA SCRIPTURA!
Quassar said: As to the annotation I quoted from the Scofield version of the KJV, Yes, I left out the final statement,“Create” might fit the word in Genesis 14:14, 22, in other instances such a meaning would be absurd," because that is their opinion, and it is not absurd, and I can fully support it. Review the NIV translation of Gen.14:14 and 22, where it is ranslated possessir in the KJV, it is CREATED, in the NIV. Same as the pre-incarnated Jesus was possessed in the KJV, Pr.8:22. He was brought forth and given birth in Pr.8:22-25, in the NIV.
Fredoheaven: Now you are trying to explain unnecessarily. But the fact remains, you have quoted them with your “alteration”. This must be the standard operation of many cults I know, when being pinned downed. The Bible says in Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:
Who did the alteration? Think twice or thrice…The Holy writ or you? SOLA SCRIPTURA!
Quassar said: Get this straight! I have written where Jesus became the od/God the Son in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35 mjany times over on this thread. I have NEVERdenied the deity of Jesus Christ.
Fredoheaven: A careful analysis of your opinion seems everything is right but is not! If God is eternal God, and Jesus is God therefore He is eternal. John 1:1 says Jesus did not became into something God. He is God forevermore! The Word (Jesus) was made flesh! God manifested in the flesh! John 1:14; 1 Timothy 3:16. SOLA SCRIPTURA!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld the glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Quassar said: I have studied this issue for 35 years and I herewith challenged to prove the Trinity from the Bible! And when you have finished your best effort, I will refute you from the Scriptures and show you who and what God is together with the origin of Jesus Christ, that can be taught from the Bible, the Trinity cannot be!
Fredoheaven: Of course your 35 years studying the issue has no bearing on what’s the issue. How can you refute someone from the Scriptures when the Scriptures refute you? What you are saying actually is to give your opinion to refute someone, but it is all “the scriptures” that will refute you as already demonstrated in your “firstborn”, “possessed” “wisdom” in my and others earlier posts.
Further, it may be a good thing that you have said your “refutation” will come from the Scriptures and that’s good, fair enough! We goanna shout and praise the Lord for that! And I say Amen! Hallelujah! But from my own observation in # 660 post of yours, in that I didn’t even see or find one single full quotation of scripture by you! SO, Scriptures only please…
SOLA SCRIPTURA!
“Remove not the ancient landmarks which thy father hath set…”
…Jesus would never have made a statement like the present day translation, because He knew very well His Father was/is the Holy Spirit, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk,1:35. Jesus stated that His Father lived in Him doing His work, in Jn.14:10, clearly revealing His Father to be the Holy Spirit.
Fredoheaven: Exactly here is “conjectural emendation” – an educated guesswork…nothing has been proven in regards to the issue. BTW, how can the Holy Spirit be the God the Father when the Holy Spirit comes from the Father and by which the Father will send just like Jesus? In John 14:26 Jesus said,” But the Comforter , which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things and bring you all things to your remembrance whatsoever I have said unto you.
Quassar said: In addition, the practice of baptism by the Apostles, was always in the name of Jesus Christ, confirming the prophecy of John the Baptist, in Mt.3:11; Mk.1:8; Lk.3:16 and Jn.1:33, as found in Acts 2:38. Never in the triune theology Godhead of Father, Son and Holy Spirit - for the above Scriptural reasons.
Fredoheaven: This is construed that “baptism in name of Jesus Christ” by the apostles never contradicts what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19. It should be noted that somehow the Apostles have done terrible things why they did not obey what Jesus said. However, not a slightest chance has ever affected what the Apostles did in their obedience to the Great Commission. The formula of baptism is still true in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. What the Apostles did as it was recorded in Acts 2:38 were done in the authority (name) of Jesus Christ that any believers were said to be baptized of what Jesus Christ really said. And what Jesus really said? Believers were to be baptized “…in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”, moreover, Jesus said “All power is given unto me…” and said to his disciples “…if you love me keep my commandments” John 14:15 and Christ commandments about baptism is to baptize believers as it is said coming from the lips of our Saviour-that’s what the record says. SOLA SRIPTURA!
Quassar said: In regards to 1 Jn.5:7, it is a late Latin insert of about the 12th century. It does not appear in any of the early Greek mss.
Fredoheaven: What you are insinuating is about “early” Gk. Mss. Antiquity is not all the basis to appear it’s the correct reading or concrete evidence, for a 4[SUP]th[/SUP] ce. extant Gk. Mss could be a representative of a mutilated, corrupt or depraved text but a later Greek mss may be said to be an exact representative of the pure text or the original autographs. To be straight, you are just referring to the corrupt Vaticanus (B) or the Sinaticus (Aleph) and few more. The external evidence and internal evidence, theological considerations and by the universal consent however, I believe it is to be retained. (Review the site I just provided) or believe what the Scriptures says. SOLA SCRIPTURA!
Quassar said: That the above views come from only a"few critics/agnostics is nothing but opinion as the two verses are actively debated by many who do not hokld to the doctrine of the Trinity. The Scriptures prove them both to be false.
Fredoheaven: Yes, the point is all about your opinion, is not really the Word of God! SOLA SCRIPTURA!
Quassar said: As to the annotation I quoted from the Scofield version of the KJV, Yes, I left out the final statement,“Create” might fit the word in Genesis 14:14, 22, in other instances such a meaning would be absurd," because that is their opinion, and it is not absurd, and I can fully support it. Review the NIV translation of Gen.14:14 and 22, where it is ranslated possessir in the KJV, it is CREATED, in the NIV. Same as the pre-incarnated Jesus was possessed in the KJV, Pr.8:22. He was brought forth and given birth in Pr.8:22-25, in the NIV.
Fredoheaven: Now you are trying to explain unnecessarily. But the fact remains, you have quoted them with your “alteration”. This must be the standard operation of many cults I know, when being pinned downed. The Bible says in Proverbs 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:
Who did the alteration? Think twice or thrice…The Holy writ or you? SOLA SCRIPTURA!
Quassar said: Get this straight! I have written where Jesus became the od/God the Son in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35 mjany times over on this thread. I have NEVERdenied the deity of Jesus Christ.
Fredoheaven: A careful analysis of your opinion seems everything is right but is not! If God is eternal God, and Jesus is God therefore He is eternal. John 1:1 says Jesus did not became into something God. He is God forevermore! The Word (Jesus) was made flesh! God manifested in the flesh! John 1:14; 1 Timothy 3:16. SOLA SCRIPTURA!
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld the glory, the glory of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Quassar said: I have studied this issue for 35 years and I herewith challenged to prove the Trinity from the Bible! And when you have finished your best effort, I will refute you from the Scriptures and show you who and what God is together with the origin of Jesus Christ, that can be taught from the Bible, the Trinity cannot be!
Fredoheaven: Of course your 35 years studying the issue has no bearing on what’s the issue. How can you refute someone from the Scriptures when the Scriptures refute you? What you are saying actually is to give your opinion to refute someone, but it is all “the scriptures” that will refute you as already demonstrated in your “firstborn”, “possessed” “wisdom” in my and others earlier posts.
Further, it may be a good thing that you have said your “refutation” will come from the Scriptures and that’s good, fair enough! We goanna shout and praise the Lord for that! And I say Amen! Hallelujah! But from my own observation in # 660 post of yours, in that I didn’t even see or find one single full quotation of scripture by you! SO, Scriptures only please…
SOLA SCRIPTURA!
“Remove not the ancient landmarks which thy father hath set…”
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Here is my question:
How is the Father.... not the Holy Spirit...and not Jesus..
If they are all actually the one being God?
I guess they are not eachother in the sense that a person's mind is not their body and their spirit is not their body or mind..
I can see it working that way.
But again..
I think if you seperate the Holy Spirit,Father, and Jesus into different beings.. you are looking at Polytheism.
So I see the trinity as one being.. God.. in three essences/substances/expressions.
Not three beings.
But anyways.. I already posted this.. I just can see where some people are coming from when they want to call Jesus the Father.. or the Holy Spirit the Father.. because they really are not spiritually seperated.
How is the Father.... not the Holy Spirit...and not Jesus..
If they are all actually the one being God?
I guess they are not eachother in the sense that a person's mind is not their body and their spirit is not their body or mind..
I can see it working that way.
But again..
I think if you seperate the Holy Spirit,Father, and Jesus into different beings.. you are looking at Polytheism.
So I see the trinity as one being.. God.. in three essences/substances/expressions.
Not three beings.
But anyways.. I already posted this.. I just can see where some people are coming from when they want to call Jesus the Father.. or the Holy Spirit the Father.. because they really are not spiritually seperated.
Sometimes we are not given all the info.
Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
God has revealed enough and when we start to form our own (man made) doctrines the truth is lost.
i am closer to God with a simple faith that holds to the sure truth, then i was when i was searching for a complicated answer that can't be found. Look to Jesus and you see God in whole.
Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.
God has revealed enough and when we start to form our own (man made) doctrines the truth is lost.
i am closer to God with a simple faith that holds to the sure truth, then i was when i was searching for a complicated answer that can't be found. Look to Jesus and you see God in whole.
My heart echoes your words.
It is the relationship and our changing that is everything.
Facts or perception in an intelectual sense do not ultimately make the relationship stronger
but we often want certainty about something that is by its nature alive and fluid.
I am called to trust and love, to obey and to be faithful. Why? Because love of itself is
these things, not because of outcomes, but because that is love.
A child understands this because it is their life, they get scared and call out, and rest secure
in the nuture their parents provide. This is who we are in Christ, and in the end it is He who
saves us.
It is the relationship and our changing that is everything.
Facts or perception in an intelectual sense do not ultimately make the relationship stronger
but we often want certainty about something that is by its nature alive and fluid.
I am called to trust and love, to obey and to be faithful. Why? Because love of itself is
these things, not because of outcomes, but because that is love.
A child understands this because it is their life, they get scared and call out, and rest secure
in the nuture their parents provide. This is who we are in Christ, and in the end it is He who
saves us.
So wattie, maybe I can shed some light on your question? God the Father is not the "person" of the Holy Spirit because the Bible "CLEARLY" identifies each person of the Trinity as "distinct" persons. Look at it this way? Your a distinct person from your father and mother. Your not your father and your not your mother, however what you do have in common is your nature which is "human being." It is your nature that makes you one with your parents and all of humanity.
It's the same thing with God in that the three persons of the Godhead are distinct persons yet they are one in nature. In the case of Jesus Christ He has two natures. One on His mothers side which is human being and one on His Father's side which is "deity." It's a universal law that all sons share the same nature as its father. This is also why Jesus referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God."
When one advocates that God the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit you are bordering on "Modalism" which the cult of oneness pentecostals teach. The following is what they teach: "Jesus is the Word, the God, the flesh, the Spirit, the man, the Father, the Son, the Alpha & Omega, the Lord God Almighty, He is all!" And, "Jesus is called the Father, He was the Son and is as well that Comforter the Holy Ghost."
In short, God is identified in the Bible as three distinct persons, (not three beings or three gods) who have the same nature/essence.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
It's the same thing with God in that the three persons of the Godhead are distinct persons yet they are one in nature. In the case of Jesus Christ He has two natures. One on His mothers side which is human being and one on His Father's side which is "deity." It's a universal law that all sons share the same nature as its father. This is also why Jesus referred to Himself as the "Son of Man" and as the "Son of God."
When one advocates that God the Father is the person of the Holy Spirit you are bordering on "Modalism" which the cult of oneness pentecostals teach. The following is what they teach: "Jesus is the Word, the God, the flesh, the Spirit, the man, the Father, the Son, the Alpha & Omega, the Lord God Almighty, He is all!" And, "Jesus is called the Father, He was the Son and is as well that Comforter the Holy Ghost."
In short, God is identified in the Bible as three distinct persons, (not three beings or three gods) who have the same nature/essence.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
Why baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost ?
this verse is used to try to prove the trinity, but it does no such thing.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,
and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
That there is a way to salvation
-We are reconciled to God by the death of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:10).
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
-by his goodness the Father brings us to and grants us repentance (Romans 2:4).
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering;
not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
-After repentance, we are to be baptized. (Acts 2:38).
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name
of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
-It is the Spirit that actually begets us as sons of God (Romans 8:9, 14, 16-17).
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
-the begetting agent that comes from God, the Holy Spirit is the earnest or
down payment, of our salvation (Ephesians 1:14; Romans 8:16).
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of
the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
-We are baptized into the truth by God’s power (Matthew 3:11; John 1:33).
3I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me,
Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he
which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
-That Spirit, God’s power, actually dwells in us after baptism (Acts 2:38; 4:8, 31; Ezekiel 36:27).
8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
27And I will put (my spirit) within you, and (cause you to walk) in (my statutes),
and ye shall (keep my judgments, and do them).
- was given to witness to the world.
8 But ye shall (receive power), after that (the Holy Ghost) is come (upon you):
and ye shall be (witnesses) unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,
and unto the (uttermost part) of the earth.
-teach and brings things to our remembrance through the power of His Spirit (John 14:26).
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
-God will give His Spirit to those who ask for right reason.(Luke 11:13).
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
-God reveals His secrets to us through the Holy Spirit (Luke 2:26)
26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should
not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
-helps us speak his words boldly.
31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together;
and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
- and in truth his words about things to come.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will (shew you things to come).
there is a way to salvation, and this is why this is said and done.
this bible verse is for a reason, and is not because the trinity doctrine.
also we find nowhere that it was added in later translations.
this verse is used to try to prove the trinity, but it does no such thing.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,
and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
That there is a way to salvation
-We are reconciled to God by the death of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:10).
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
-by his goodness the Father brings us to and grants us repentance (Romans 2:4).
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering;
not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
-After repentance, we are to be baptized. (Acts 2:38).
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name
of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
-It is the Spirit that actually begets us as sons of God (Romans 8:9, 14, 16-17).
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.
Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
-the begetting agent that comes from God, the Holy Spirit is the earnest or
down payment, of our salvation (Ephesians 1:14; Romans 8:16).
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of
the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
-We are baptized into the truth by God’s power (Matthew 3:11; John 1:33).
3I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I,
whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me,
Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he
which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
-That Spirit, God’s power, actually dwells in us after baptism (Acts 2:38; 4:8, 31; Ezekiel 36:27).
8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
27And I will put (my spirit) within you, and (cause you to walk) in (my statutes),
and ye shall (keep my judgments, and do them).
- was given to witness to the world.
8 But ye shall (receive power), after that (the Holy Ghost) is come (upon you):
and ye shall be (witnesses) unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria,
and unto the (uttermost part) of the earth.
-teach and brings things to our remembrance through the power of His Spirit (John 14:26).
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
-God will give His Spirit to those who ask for right reason.(Luke 11:13).
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children:
how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
-God reveals His secrets to us through the Holy Spirit (Luke 2:26)
26And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should
not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.
-helps us speak his words boldly.
31And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together;
and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
- and in truth his words about things to come.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come,
he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;
but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will (shew you things to come).
there is a way to salvation, and this is why this is said and done.
this bible verse is for a reason, and is not because the trinity doctrine.
also we find nowhere that it was added in later translations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_Johanneum
The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses,
is a comma (a short clause) found in some manuscripts of the First Epistle of John[1] at 5:7–8.
The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek
manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies. - first seen in the 4th century
the Johannine Comma is inauthentic, and was not inspired by the Holy spirit. the text as either
an accidental intrusion, which could be a margin commentary note that a later scribe mistakenly
considered to be the original text, or as a deliberate insertion or forgery.
The Comma Johanneum, also called the Johannine Comma or the Heavenly Witnesses,
is a comma (a short clause) found in some manuscripts of the First Epistle of John[1] at 5:7–8.
The scholarly consensus is that that passage is a Latin corruption that entered the Greek
manuscript tradition in some subsequent copies. - first seen in the 4th century
the Johannine Comma is inauthentic, and was not inspired by the Holy spirit. the text as either
an accidental intrusion, which could be a margin commentary note that a later scribe mistakenly
considered to be the original text, or as a deliberate insertion or forgery.
Heavenly Witnesses?
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
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Heavenly Witnesses?
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me;
and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given
me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me;
and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.
35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light.
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given
me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me.
Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
The Biblical documentation of the pre-incarnate Jesus origin and when He became the Son of God/God the Son:
Beginning in Proverbs 8, pertaining to the personification of God's Wisdom, reference is made to specifically to verses 22 through 36, that clearly identify the pre-incarnate spirit of Jesus Christ as the WHO, of the Wisdom of God. [From the NIV].
"The Lord brought me forth as the first of His works, before His deed of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning,
before the world began. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, [Vs 22-24]
when there were no springs abounding with water; before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, before He made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. [Vs 24-26]
I was there when He set the heavens in place, when He marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when He established the clouds above and fixed securly the fountains of the deep, [Vs 27-28]
when He gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep His command, and when He marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at His side. I was filled with delight day after day, [Vs 29-30]
rejoicing always in His presence, rejoicing in His whole world and delighting in mankind. Now then my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. [Vs 30-33]
Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." [Vs 34-36]
That Jesus is the Wisdom [Power and knowledge] of God is made abundantly clear in 1 Cor.1:24 and Col.2:2-3
Col.1:15 "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation."
Gen.1:1: "In the beginning God created the heaven and earth," Tanakh
Heb.1:1: "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways,2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe."
Gen.1:26 "Then God said, “Let us [The pre-incarnate Jesus] make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” [Parenthetics mine}
Jesus did not become the Son of God/God the Son until recorded in Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35 as the Scriptures clearly document in the following OT passages.
God makes it clear in the OT, He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself. "....Before me no God was formed, nor will there be one after me." Isa.43:10. And in Isa.44:6, "....I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." See also Isa.45:5: "I am the Lord and there is no other," and in Ex.3:14: "I AM WHO I AM."
Quasar92
JESUS SAID:
John 10:17 (ESV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
John 2:19 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
John 2:21 (ESV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
Acts 10:40-41 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]"God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
[SUP]41 [/SUP]not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
NOW, Jesus absolutely has to have DEITY residing IN HIM, or you have Jesus telling an untruth. By the way, there is ONLY ONE DEITY. Within that ONE DEITY are three personages the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The difference between Jesus and the rest of humanity is the human spirit in us was CREATED by HIM, while the Spirit in JESUS is the CREATOR HIMSELF.
Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11[/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
Luke 2:11 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
NOW, the question is DO YOU BELIEVE THE SON OF GOD IS PART OF THAT ONE AND ONLY GOD THAT EXISTS?
YES OR NO?
John 10:17 (ESV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
John 2:19 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
John 2:21 (ESV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
Acts 10:40-41 (NASB)
[SUP]40 [/SUP]"God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
[SUP]41 [/SUP]not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
NOW, Jesus absolutely has to have DEITY residing IN HIM, or you have Jesus telling an untruth. By the way, there is ONLY ONE DEITY. Within that ONE DEITY are three personages the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The difference between Jesus and the rest of humanity is the human spirit in us was CREATED by HIM, while the Spirit in JESUS is the CREATOR HIMSELF.
Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
[SUP]11[/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.
Luke 2:11 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
2 Corinthians 5:19 (ASV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
NOW, the question is DO YOU BELIEVE THE SON OF GOD IS PART OF THAT ONE AND ONLY GOD THAT EXISTS?
YES OR NO?
Amendment to post #671 by Quasar92:
1. Jesus, Paul and John identify God, in Jn.1:18, 4:24; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18, Col.1:15 and 1 Jn.4:12, as Spirit.
2. God, who is the Spirit, makes it clear that He is also Holy, in Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Ps.99:3; Ps.99:5; 1 Pet.1:15-16 and in Rev.4:8. Therefore there is no option to the fact that God is the HOLY SPIRIT and FATHER, one person - not two! The term father is the same TITLE as all men have after they have produced children of their own. Why not use the same flawed logic on Jesus and the Son Trinitarians have used on the Holy Spirit and Father.
Mt.1:20: "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."
[SUP]Lk.1:32 "[/SUP]He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, [SUP]33 [/SUP]and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
[SUP]35 [/SUP]The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be calledthe Son of God."
Quasar92
1. Jesus, Paul and John identify God, in Jn.1:18, 4:24; Rom.1:20; 2 Cor.3:17-18, Col.1:15 and 1 Jn.4:12, as Spirit.
2. God, who is the Spirit, makes it clear that He is also Holy, in Lev.11:44-45; Lev.19:2; Ps.99:3; Ps.99:5; 1 Pet.1:15-16 and in Rev.4:8. Therefore there is no option to the fact that God is the HOLY SPIRIT and FATHER, one person - not two! The term father is the same TITLE as all men have after they have produced children of their own. Why not use the same flawed logic on Jesus and the Son Trinitarians have used on the Holy Spirit and Father.
Mt.1:20: "But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."
[SUP]Lk.1:32 "[/SUP]He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, [SUP]33 [/SUP]and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”
[SUP]35 [/SUP]The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be calledthe Son of God."
Quasar92
I haven't had time to read this thread, so forgive me if I am repeating the thoughts of others. I believe that the words of Jesus in Matthew dispel any doubt of the make up of the Trinity. Every translation of this verse states the same fact.
Matthew 28:19
(BBE) Go then, and make disciples of all the nations, giving them baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
(Bishops) Go ye therfore, & teache all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the sonne, and of the holye ghost:
(CEV) Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
(Darby) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;
(EMTV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(ERV) So go and make followers of all people in the world. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
(ESV) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(Geneva) Go therefore, & teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and the Sonne, and the holy Ghost,
(GNB) Go, then, to all peoples everywhere and make them my disciples: baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
(ISV) Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
(KJV) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(KJV+) GoG4198 ye therefore,G3767 and teachG3100 allG3956 nations,G1484 baptizingG907 themG846 inG1519 theG3588 nameG3686 of theG3588 Father,G3962 andG2532 of theG3588 Son,G5207 andG2532 of theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost:G4151
(KJV-1611) Goe ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Sonne, and of the holy Ghost:
(LITV) Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(MKJV) Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(WEBA) Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(Webster) Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
(WNT) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations; baptize them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;
(YLT) having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them--to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
Baptizing them in the "name" of the Father, "and" the Son, "and" the Holy Spirit.
One name (notes names) three parts (Father and Son and Holy Spirit). It doesn't get any simpler than that.
Matthew 28:19
(BBE) Go then, and make disciples of all the nations, giving them baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:
(Bishops) Go ye therfore, & teache all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, and of the sonne, and of the holye ghost:
(CEV) Go to the people of all nations and make them my disciples. Baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
(Darby) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;
(EMTV) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(ERV) So go and make followers of all people in the world. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
(ESV) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(Geneva) Go therefore, & teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and the Sonne, and the holy Ghost,
(GNB) Go, then, to all peoples everywhere and make them my disciples: baptize them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
(ISV) Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,
(KJV) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
(KJV+) GoG4198 ye therefore,G3767 and teachG3100 allG3956 nations,G1484 baptizingG907 themG846 inG1519 theG3588 nameG3686 of theG3588 Father,G3962 andG2532 of theG3588 Son,G5207 andG2532 of theG3588 HolyG40 Ghost:G4151
(KJV-1611) Goe ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, and of the Sonne, and of the holy Ghost:
(LITV) Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(MKJV) Therefore go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(WEBA) Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
(Webster) Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
(WNT) Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations; baptize them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;
(YLT) having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them--to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
Baptizing them in the "name" of the Father, "and" the Son, "and" the Holy Spirit.
One name (notes names) three parts (Father and Son and Holy Spirit). It doesn't get any simpler than that.
John 8:58 (NKJV)
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
John 14:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 20:27-29 (YLT)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] then he saith to Thomas, `Bring thy finger hither, and see my hands, and bring thy hand, and put it to my side, and become not unbelieving, but believing.'
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And Thomas answered and said to him, `My Lord and my God;'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus saith to him, `Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed; happy those not having seen, and having believed.'
Colossians 2:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
1 Corinthians 2:11 (NRSV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For what human being knows what is truly human except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehends what is truly God's except the Spirit of God.
Matthew 28:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name {SINGULAR} of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, {THEY ARE THE NAME OF THAT ONE SINGULAR DEITY}
DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY? Please Answer.
Are you Unitarian? Please Answer.
I am a born again TRINITY BELIEVING Conservative Evangelical.
[SUP]58 [/SUP] Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."
John 14:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Jesus said to him, “Have I been among you all this time without your knowing Me, Philip? The one who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 20:27-29 (YLT)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] then he saith to Thomas, `Bring thy finger hither, and see my hands, and bring thy hand, and put it to my side, and become not unbelieving, but believing.'
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And Thomas answered and said to him, `My Lord and my God;'
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus saith to him, `Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed; happy those not having seen, and having believed.'
Colossians 2:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ,
1 Corinthians 2:11 (NRSV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For what human being knows what is truly human except the human spirit that is within? So also no one comprehends what is truly God's except the Spirit of God.
Matthew 28:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name {SINGULAR} of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, {THEY ARE THE NAME OF THAT ONE SINGULAR DEITY}
DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY? Please Answer.
Are you Unitarian? Please Answer.
I am a born again TRINITY BELIEVING Conservative Evangelical.
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The last remark you made does not dignify my response! If you read my posts, the answer to that question will smack you right in the face!
Show me in anything you posted in the above, where Jesus claimed He raised Himself from the dead! See the following for who it was that did raise Him from the dead:
[FONT="][FONT="]1 Corinthians 6:14[FONT="]Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power.Ephesians 1:20[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Ephesians 1:15-23
[FONT="]For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. read more.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]2 Corinthians 4:14s
[FONT="]knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Romans 8:11[FONT="]But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 2:24[FONT="]"But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 3:15[FONT="]but put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witnesses.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 4:10[FONT="]let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead--by this name this man stands here before you in good health.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 5:30s
[FONT="]"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 10:40[FONT="]"God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 13:30
[FONT="]"But God raised Him from the dead;[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 13:34[FONT="]"As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: 'I WILL GIVE YOU THE HOLY and SURE blessings OF DAVID.'[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Romans 4:24[FONT="]but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Galatians 1:1[FONT="]Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]1 Peter 1:21[FONT="]who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 2:32[FONT="]"This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 3:26[FONT="]"For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways."[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Romans 6:4[FONT="]Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]1 Thessalonians 1:10[FONT="]and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Hebrews 13:20[FONT="]Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord,[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts 17:31[FONT="]because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead."[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Acts [FONT="]that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, 'YOU ARE MY SON; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU.'[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]Romans 8:34[FONT="]who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT="][FONT="]1 Corinthians 15:4[FONT="]and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scripture
Quasar92[/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT]
Come on quasar, vco did show where Jesus said He would raise Himself. Read the verses here:
"John 2:19 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
John 2:21 (ESV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
You have the Apostle John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit giving his commentary on what Jesus meant at John 2:21. Not only that but at the trial of Jesus the high priest Caiaphas brought in false witnesses who said, "and said, "This man/Jesus stated, "I am able to destroy the timeple of God and to rebuild it in three days." (Matthew 26:61).
Obviously the witnesses mis-understood what Jesus had said but we have the Apostle John clarifying what Jesus was talking about, that is the temple of His body. So now you have concrete proof that Jesus raised Himself from the dead and at Romans 8:11 the following: "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."
So far we have Jesus Christ rasing Himself, the Holy Spirit raising Him and how about God the Father? Acts 2:24, "And God raised Him up again putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power." Then Acts 2:32,33, "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. vs33, Therefore having b een exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."
Notice quasar, that God the Father (who you say is the person of the Holy Spirit) has poured out from the Father the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:1-4. Now what excuse are you going to come up with quasar?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
"John 2:19 (ESV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
John 2:21 (ESV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But he was speaking about the temple of his body.
You have the Apostle John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit giving his commentary on what Jesus meant at John 2:21. Not only that but at the trial of Jesus the high priest Caiaphas brought in false witnesses who said, "and said, "This man/Jesus stated, "I am able to destroy the timeple of God and to rebuild it in three days." (Matthew 26:61).
Obviously the witnesses mis-understood what Jesus had said but we have the Apostle John clarifying what Jesus was talking about, that is the temple of His body. So now you have concrete proof that Jesus raised Himself from the dead and at Romans 8:11 the following: "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."
So far we have Jesus Christ rasing Himself, the Holy Spirit raising Him and how about God the Father? Acts 2:24, "And God raised Him up again putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power." Then Acts 2:32,33, "This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. vs33, Therefore having b een exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear."
Notice quasar, that God the Father (who you say is the person of the Holy Spirit) has poured out from the Father the Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:1-4. Now what excuse are you going to come up with quasar?
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto