Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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As I read you, you provided a rendition of God's common grace and then made a statement that did not follow it.
If that was your intent, I see it as a non-sequitur.
If it was your intent to be making a statement not attached to, or proven by, or proving the prior narrative, then I'd ask you to make this clear. It just looked like one long narrative.
If that was your intent, I see it as a non-sequitur.
If it was your intent to be making a statement not attached to, or proven by, or proving the prior narrative, then I'd ask you to make this clear. It just looked like one long narrative.
Matthew 22:14
"For many are called, but few chosen.”
I will chose Jesus's words over your misuse of Rev.7:9.
A multitude regardless of number is still a few against the difference between the wide and narrow way.
Matthew 7:13-14
"“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
It seems you are the one forgetful or disingenuous.
But back to the question.
What choice do those who follow the wide way that leads to death have?
"For many are called, but few chosen.”
I will chose Jesus's words over your misuse of Rev.7:9.
A multitude regardless of number is still a few against the difference between the wide and narrow way.
Matthew 7:13-14
"“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
It seems you are the one forgetful or disingenuous.
But back to the question.
What choice do those who follow the wide way that leads to death have?
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Again, I explained that Jesus spoke to a Jewish audience about the remnant of Jews who would be saved. See Romans 10:21-22. This comes from Isaiah 65:1-7. It deals with the church age.
It's not a matter of choosing between scriptures; it's a matter of understanding them. All scripture is true.
They have lots of choices. Too many to mention. Choosing what show to watch or what color socks to wear are a couple.
It's not a matter of choosing between scriptures; it's a matter of understanding them. All scripture is true.
They have lots of choices. Too many to mention. Choosing what show to watch or what color socks to wear are a couple.
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Acts 17 verses 26-27 ~ From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands. God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.
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FWers not only have a very difficult time in understanding and processing figures of speech (especially metaphors!) but they routinely ignore rhetorical questions because such questions gives a reader one of two choices for an answer and FWers don't like the correct answers. Jer 17:9 reads:
Jer 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know [understand] it?
ASV
The question at the end demands one answer: NO ONE CAN! Yet, GWH apparently thinks he has a great handle on the passage. He would have us believe that he understands it so well that he can just summarily dismiss the passage as being virtually irrelevant to us today since the text was just a Jewish "anomaly" -- a slight and rare blip in their history. But there are several things wrong with GWH's approach per the following:
1. He ignored several scriptures that teach that everything written in the OT applies to NC believers, is relevant to us, is to be taken to heart by us and this is why they were written for our benefit and instruction (Rom 15:4; 1Cor 10:6, 11; Heb 4:11; 2Pet 2:6; Jude 7).
2. The rhetorical question requires the answer I gave above because self-deceived people are always unaware of the lies they have grown to love and believe . They pride themselves as being sighted (one of their many lies) even though they are spiritually blind (Jn 9:41). Such people believe they have the power to see, yet Jesus taught that they cannot see. For them to actually see, they need to be born again, which is not a matter of man's "freewill" choice but rather a matter of Holy Spirit's choice. The new birth precedes understanding and faith.
3. GWH also ignores, downplays, diminishes or even dismisses the universal scope of this deception that reigns in all men's hearts w/o exception, in spite of the fact that the universality of deceitfulness CAN clearly be seen in the real world. Natural Revelation very clearly and plainly reveals this truth to all who have graciously been given eyes to see and ears to hear! And Natural Revelation always accurately reflects the objective, propositional truth claims of Special Revelation. Many moons ago when God revealed this truth to me, I labeled what I found to be a Universal Principle, hence I called it the Law of Distrust. So now...I'll reveal this commonly "known" law (although not by my label) but at the same time its implications are grossly misunderstood or even ignored by most. Now, I'll explain the law and since I wrote on this topic many moons ago, I will simply copy and paste what I wrote on a secular forum back on 2011. Just keep this one fact firmly in mind: This world, as we all know it, does NOT run on the honor system. And this, ironically, makes this ungodly, wicked, evil, depraved, dark world more spiritually savvy than many professing Christians! Here's the law:
Natural Revelation (reality as we know it) gives affirmation to the above doctrines with what I call the Universal Law of Distrust. This law states that all men are presumed to be untrustworthy unless they are known, or if unknown they can prove otherwise. Stated differently: all men unknown by others are presumed guilty of distrustfulness until they can prove otherwise. This is universally condemning commentary on mankind, is it not?
All governments, public and private institutions, businesses, etc, require that we prove the claims that we make to them before they honor them. You want a driver's license? Then you had better walk in with proof of identity. You want to fly on an airplane? You had better be prepared to prove who you are. You want to open up a bank account? Better have some I.D. on hand. Want to buy insurance? Better have all the necessary papers to prove who you are, what age you are, what values are legitimate, etc., etc.
And we can see this universal Law in play in another important way: We put locks on virtually everything of value we own. We lock our cars. We lock our homes. We padlock our sheds and barns. We buy safes with strong locks on them. We lock up our places of business. We even arm ourselves to protect our property. We buy expensive alarm systems for our homes, boats, cars, etc, etc. We install security cameras to monitor our property. We need to create strong passwords to protect against online intrustion of our privacy, etc. In short, we really don't trust our "neighbors" very well, do we?
We also see this how this Law has historically affected international relationships. Powerful nations, historically, have armed themselves to the teeth either because of their nefarious designs on other nations or because they wish to protect themselves from such nations they don't trust!
So, then, this Law as found in Natural Revelation gives affirmation to the teachings that are found in Special Revelation. Man truly does have a very serious moral/spiritual problem -- and it's universal in scope. This univesal distrust divides man: From himself, from his neighbors and ultimaely from God.
Because man is utterly and naturally untrustworthy accounts for why there is so little love in this world. It's very tough to love people we don't trust. The world at large ignores the Two Greatest Commandments and the "Golden Rule". This Law not only strongly affirms Jer 17:9 but other passages as well (Ps 116:11; Rom 3:4).
Jer 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know [understand] it?
ASV
The question at the end demands one answer: NO ONE CAN! Yet, GWH apparently thinks he has a great handle on the passage. He would have us believe that he understands it so well that he can just summarily dismiss the passage as being virtually irrelevant to us today since the text was just a Jewish "anomaly" -- a slight and rare blip in their history. But there are several things wrong with GWH's approach per the following:
1. He ignored several scriptures that teach that everything written in the OT applies to NC believers, is relevant to us, is to be taken to heart by us and this is why they were written for our benefit and instruction (Rom 15:4; 1Cor 10:6, 11; Heb 4:11; 2Pet 2:6; Jude 7).
2. The rhetorical question requires the answer I gave above because self-deceived people are always unaware of the lies they have grown to love and believe . They pride themselves as being sighted (one of their many lies) even though they are spiritually blind (Jn 9:41). Such people believe they have the power to see, yet Jesus taught that they cannot see. For them to actually see, they need to be born again, which is not a matter of man's "freewill" choice but rather a matter of Holy Spirit's choice. The new birth precedes understanding and faith.
3. GWH also ignores, downplays, diminishes or even dismisses the universal scope of this deception that reigns in all men's hearts w/o exception, in spite of the fact that the universality of deceitfulness CAN clearly be seen in the real world. Natural Revelation very clearly and plainly reveals this truth to all who have graciously been given eyes to see and ears to hear! And Natural Revelation always accurately reflects the objective, propositional truth claims of Special Revelation. Many moons ago when God revealed this truth to me, I labeled what I found to be a Universal Principle, hence I called it the Law of Distrust. So now...I'll reveal this commonly "known" law (although not by my label) but at the same time its implications are grossly misunderstood or even ignored by most. Now, I'll explain the law and since I wrote on this topic many moons ago, I will simply copy and paste what I wrote on a secular forum back on 2011. Just keep this one fact firmly in mind: This world, as we all know it, does NOT run on the honor system. And this, ironically, makes this ungodly, wicked, evil, depraved, dark world more spiritually savvy than many professing Christians! Here's the law:
Natural Revelation (reality as we know it) gives affirmation to the above doctrines with what I call the Universal Law of Distrust. This law states that all men are presumed to be untrustworthy unless they are known, or if unknown they can prove otherwise. Stated differently: all men unknown by others are presumed guilty of distrustfulness until they can prove otherwise. This is universally condemning commentary on mankind, is it not?
All governments, public and private institutions, businesses, etc, require that we prove the claims that we make to them before they honor them. You want a driver's license? Then you had better walk in with proof of identity. You want to fly on an airplane? You had better be prepared to prove who you are. You want to open up a bank account? Better have some I.D. on hand. Want to buy insurance? Better have all the necessary papers to prove who you are, what age you are, what values are legitimate, etc., etc.
And we can see this universal Law in play in another important way: We put locks on virtually everything of value we own. We lock our cars. We lock our homes. We padlock our sheds and barns. We buy safes with strong locks on them. We lock up our places of business. We even arm ourselves to protect our property. We buy expensive alarm systems for our homes, boats, cars, etc, etc. We install security cameras to monitor our property. We need to create strong passwords to protect against online intrustion of our privacy, etc. In short, we really don't trust our "neighbors" very well, do we?
We also see this how this Law has historically affected international relationships. Powerful nations, historically, have armed themselves to the teeth either because of their nefarious designs on other nations or because they wish to protect themselves from such nations they don't trust!
So, then, this Law as found in Natural Revelation gives affirmation to the teachings that are found in Special Revelation. Man truly does have a very serious moral/spiritual problem -- and it's universal in scope. This univesal distrust divides man: From himself, from his neighbors and ultimaely from God.
Because man is utterly and naturally untrustworthy accounts for why there is so little love in this world. It's very tough to love people we don't trust. The world at large ignores the Two Greatest Commandments and the "Golden Rule". This Law not only strongly affirms Jer 17:9 but other passages as well (Ps 116:11; Rom 3:4).
Correction: the word is not dechomai but dektos. On the road yesterday and failed memory.
I was responding to this (my highlights):
33 "So I sent to you immediately, and you have done well to come. Now therefore, we are all present before God, to hear all the things commanded you by God." 34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. (Acts 10:34-35 NKJ)
This is Peter's account of being prepared to be sent to evangelize a Gentile - Cornelius, then being sent, then evangelizing, and recapping the experience.
Observations:
1. pert. to being met with approval in someone’s company, acceptable, welcome,
2. pert. to being pleasing because of being approved, pleasing, acceptable,
3. pert. to being appropriate to circumstances, favorable,
Yes, it does seem to me that a God conscious unbeliever can fear God, do what Peter called works of righteousness, and be pleasing to God, and that God will send someone to proclaim His Gospel to him, and yes, even prepare him in some way to be receptive to it.
I was responding to this (my highlights):
33 "So I sent to you immediately, and you have done well to come. Now therefore, we are all present before God, to hear all the things commanded you by God." 34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. (Acts 10:34-35 NKJ)
This is Peter's account of being prepared to be sent to evangelize a Gentile - Cornelius, then being sent, then evangelizing, and recapping the experience.
Observations:
- God showing no partiality mainly concerns Jew vs. Gentile and secondarily those who fear Him and those who do not.
- Cornelius was a believer in the God of the Jews
- Brings to mind at minimum Rom1
- Cornelius was yet an unbeliever in Jesus Christ
- Cornelius the unbeliever was a man who was "fearing" the God of the Jews
- Cornelius the unbeliever was a man who was "working righteousness"
- Cornelius the unbeliever was "a dektos man to God"
1. pert. to being met with approval in someone’s company, acceptable, welcome,
2. pert. to being pleasing because of being approved, pleasing, acceptable,
3. pert. to being appropriate to circumstances, favorable,
Yes, it does seem to me that a God conscious unbeliever can fear God, do what Peter called works of righteousness, and be pleasing to God, and that God will send someone to proclaim His Gospel to him, and yes, even prepare him in some way to be receptive to it.
It's crazy how many verses they have to outright reject in order to cling to their false doctrine.
They love rejecting what Jesus said, and how often they have that bad tree bringing forth good fruit.
Psalm 14 verses 1-3; Job 15 verse 16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
They love rejecting what Jesus said, and how often they have that bad tree bringing forth good fruit.
Psalm 14 verses 1-3; Job 15 verse 16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
How strange is it that you repeatedly claim God is unfair to do what He does???
Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verses 21 and 2:13; Ephesians 2 verses 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verses 6 and 2:13
Jesus’ words in John 6 verse 65 I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them. Plus Colossians 1 verses 21 and 2:13; Ephesians 2 verses 1a and 3b; Philippians 1 verses 6 and 2:13
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Yes, I call it verbal ping-pong.
I attempt to fix the problem by replying only or at least mainly to posts that contain some Scripture to discuss
or else some seriously wrong interpretation of GW that needs to be reproved.
I also sponsor systematic Bible studies: on Ephesians currently on the Systematic BS thread^)
and on Election and/or Prayer on the Hermeneutics threads.
I attempt to fix the problem by replying only or at least mainly to posts that contain some Scripture to discuss
or else some seriously wrong interpretation of GW that needs to be reproved.
I also sponsor systematic Bible studies: on Ephesians currently on the Systematic BS thread
^)and on Election and/or Prayer on the Hermeneutics threads.
1. "He (GWH) ignored several scriptures that teach that everything written in the OT applies to NC believers, is relevant to us, is to be taken to heart by us and this is why they were written for our benefit and instruction (Rom 15:4; 1Cor 10:6, 11; Heb 4:11; 2Pet 2:6; Jude 7)."
Not at all ignored, but rather I have repeatedly asked Ruf to suggest a Scripture he wants us to discuss next.
2. "The rhetorical question requires the answer I gave above because self-deceived people are always unaware of the lies they have grown to love and believe ... " Ruf refuses to understand that this projection applies more to him, because he is the one
who ignores so much Scripture in order to believe TULIP, whereas I am willing to discuss it all--and without being pejorative!
3. "GWH also ignores, downplays, diminishes or even dismisses the universal scope of this deception that reigns in all men's hearts w/o exception": Well, then it reigns in Ruf's, too, but again, I love GW and discussing it all.
Not at all ignored, but rather I have repeatedly asked Ruf to suggest a Scripture he wants us to discuss next.
2. "The rhetorical question requires the answer I gave above because self-deceived people are always unaware of the lies they have grown to love and believe ... " Ruf refuses to understand that this projection applies more to him, because he is the one
who ignores so much Scripture in order to believe TULIP, whereas I am willing to discuss it all--and without being pejorative!
3. "GWH also ignores, downplays, diminishes or even dismisses the universal scope of this deception that reigns in all men's hearts w/o exception": Well, then it reigns in Ruf's, too, but again, I love GW and discussing it all.
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