Can We Really Exercise Free Will?
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No... you need to change your thinking....
People that don't agree with calvanists do not hate hearing that God gets the glory for everything... that is a presumption.
I agree with you that God is Almighty and all glory belongs to Him,
I agree that all good comes from Him.
I agree that God has all power and can force or control everything.
But the God I worship is different to your god in that my God does not force us to love Him.
The problem with your god is that I can't give him glory voluntarily. I can't praise his name voluntarily. Your god puts it in me so your god is praising himself.
But the glory and praise that I give to my God is a free response that comes from knowing God's love.
We agree that God GETS all the glory for everything, but we do not agree on why.
I'm not trying to divide. I'm just explaining why we disagree.
Psa 63:3 Because thy lovingkindness is better than life, my lips shall praise thee.
People that don't agree with calvanists do not hate hearing that God gets the glory for everything... that is a presumption.
I agree with you that God is Almighty and all glory belongs to Him,
I agree that all good comes from Him.
I agree that God has all power and can force or control everything.
But the God I worship is different to your god in that my God does not force us to love Him.
The problem with your god is that I can't give him glory voluntarily. I can't praise his name voluntarily. Your god puts it in me so your god is praising himself.
But the glory and praise that I give to my God is a free response that comes from knowing God's love.
We agree that God GETS all the glory for everything, but we do not agree on why.
I'm not trying to divide. I'm just explaining why we disagree.
Psa 63:3 Because thy lovingkindness is better than life, my lips shall praise thee.
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Yes volition is a complex issue, and yes, no one can claim to have the infallible explanation.
Yes, God can make choices for souls, and He can make choices against them.
His love and mercy are aspects of His righteousness, whereas His power includes the ability to create volition so that no soul can claim God is unjust for not providing an opportunity to seek, believe and be saved.
A word that seems to be missing in the discussion is "(ir)resistible", as in "every soul has environmental and experiential influences, but evil is not irresistible." On the other hand, "God's grace and calling are resistible, because souls are neither coerced nor robots."
Yes, God can make choices for souls, and He can make choices against them.
His love and mercy are aspects of His righteousness, whereas His power includes the ability to create volition so that no soul can claim God is unjust for not providing an opportunity to seek, believe and be saved.
A word that seems to be missing in the discussion is "(ir)resistible", as in "every soul has environmental and experiential influences, but evil is not irresistible." On the other hand, "God's grace and calling are resistible, because souls are neither coerced nor robots."
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If you can't even stand by the forgery I certainly can't. I guess I'm just going to have keep Moses and the certified canon then.
She didn't freely choose, she was taken captive in her own mind by the influence of the serpent. Eve didn't eat of her freewill to be a rebel, she ate because of what the serpent told her to cause her to think it would make her wise. She's still guilty of course for believing the serpent over God, but the ultimate fault isn't really on her, but rather on the serpent.
Well this is amazing, you have gone from freewill to limited volition to God's determination all in one post. Indeed there is only freedom in the truth which is part of God's will and there is nothing outside of God's will and destiny will never be altered. Do God's will and live forever, oppose God's will and die and suffer, all are bound into the will of God and destiny will never be altered. You're starting to come around to my line of thinking, though you might not want to admit it, but you're getting very close. I might have to start sharing from my lunchbox with you.
1 John 2:17
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Huh? You don't even seem to understand what volition is or how it works. You can't make decisions without information. She freely chose to be deceived. There was no "spell" associated with the serpent's lie.
Congratulations, a legend in your own lunchbox.
It's the way we are created mate, in God's image and likeness. He has given to us limited self determination within ourselves just as He has absolute determination within Himself. Grace is what enables us to stand free and make our own determination when information (the Gospel) is presented. We do not determine our own salvation, we determine whether we will believe or we will not believe. We do the believing, it is God who does the saving.
John 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Well, all except our volition of course. That is never allowed to be free. God forbid man should ever be allowed to make their own response to the Gospel.
Congratulations, a legend in your own lunchbox.
It's the way we are created mate, in God's image and likeness. He has given to us limited self determination within ourselves just as He has absolute determination within Himself. Grace is what enables us to stand free and make our own determination when information (the Gospel) is presented. We do not determine our own salvation, we determine whether we will believe or we will not believe. We do the believing, it is God who does the saving.
John 8:32
and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
Well, all except our volition of course. That is never allowed to be free. God forbid man should ever be allowed to make their own response to the Gospel.
Well this is amazing, you have gone from freewill to limited volition to God's determination all in one post. Indeed there is only freedom in the truth which is part of God's will and there is nothing outside of God's will and destiny will never be altered. Do God's will and live forever, oppose God's will and die and suffer, all are bound into the will of God and destiny will never be altered. You're starting to come around to my line of thinking, though you might not want to admit it, but you're getting very close. I might have to start sharing from my lunchbox with you.
1 John 2:17
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Show me the evidence for that statement.
All you are saying is "the devil made me do it". I like to see you try flying that one by the Lord on the day of evaluation.
Freedom demands limitation otherwise you have chaos. Even God's freedom is limited. There is always restraint and restriction in freedom. It is called authority.
Hardly, you're barely grounded in reality. Keep you're lunch, I'm not interested in whatever you're supping on.
All you are saying is "the devil made me do it". I like to see you try flying that one by the Lord on the day of evaluation.
Freedom demands limitation otherwise you have chaos. Even God's freedom is limited. There is always restraint and restriction in freedom. It is called authority.
Hardly, you're barely grounded in reality. Keep you're lunch, I'm not interested in whatever you're supping on.
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Show me the evidence for that statement.
All you are saying is "the devil made me do it". I like to see you try flying that one by the Lord on the day of evaluation.
Freedom demands limitation otherwise you have chaos. Even God's freedom is limited. There is always restraint and restriction in freedom. It is called authority.
Hardly, you're barely grounded in reality. Keep you're lunch, I'm not interested in whatever you're supping on.
All you are saying is "the devil made me do it". I like to see you try flying that one by the Lord on the day of evaluation.
Freedom demands limitation otherwise you have chaos. Even God's freedom is limited. There is always restraint and restriction in freedom. It is called authority.
Hardly, you're barely grounded in reality. Keep you're lunch, I'm not interested in whatever you're supping on.
Genesis 3:13-14
Aw you were so close then took a hard left turn, no God is not limited at all.
Lol well it's dinnertime anyways.
Which one? There's six of them that were forged by the Pharisees, all of which are thousands of years after the actual lost book of Jasher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_haYashar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_haYashar
John 8:43, 47, Acts 13:48, Romans 8:8 ~ John 8:43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” John 8:47 “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Romans 8:8 Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.
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This is an interesting topic of discussion for sure. One question comes up in my mind. That is, OK if we do not have free will then why did God create it or grant us the ability to make choices based off of our free will? For example, back when I first met my lovely wife I just stopped dead in my tracks! I knew that I knew she was THE one for me. Of my own free will, I pursued her. I prayed a LOT over her and I chose of my own free will to make her my bride. I have the Lord Jesus to thank for creating His lovely daughter and I love her dearly. So how is it in ALL of that did I not have free will?
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