Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[SonJudgment]

Scripture says the whole world is under the influence/control of the evil one...

Yea the world is the enemy of God. That doesn't mean it has a will of its own, it just means it's in opposition to the only will that actually exists, and for futility at that since no one and no thing will ever stop the invincible will of God, doubly so now that our Lord Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of God preparing his armies, praise Jesus.

 

[GWH]

As I read all of the posts thus far regarding the definition of free will I noted that everyone's view of the elephant was true but viewed from different angles. Also, of how difficult it is to state the whole truth in one swipe--even in the Bible. That is why I cite the overlays of the bodily systems in medical books as analogous to how hermeneutics or sewing Scripture together works.

 

[Magenta]

Yea the world is the enemy of God. That doesn't mean it has a will of its own, it just means it's in opposition to the only will that actually exists, and for futility at that since no one and no thing will ever stop the invincible will of God, doubly so now that our Lord Jesus Christ sits at the right hand of God preparing his armies, praise Jesus.

Please excuse me saying so, but it really does sound like you are ascribing evil to God.

 

[CS1]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

Hmm, can you choose to eat a taco over a Burger today? What close to put on?

 

[Cameron143]

Hmm, can you choose to eat a taco over a Burger today? What close to put on?

You can. But even in choosing food, you pick foods you like based on taste buds that were created for you with built in preferences. And the clothes you choose are chosen often by styles and colors you prefer as a result of your Creator or were taught to prefer by parents not of your choosing.

 

[Magenta]

Hmm, can you choose to eat a taco over a Burger today? What close to put on?

The conversation between Christians on the topic of free will has much more to do with whether or not the natural man is free in his natural state -with his hostile to God mind and his stony heart, while a slave to sin and suppressing the truth in unrighteousness- is he free to choose to believe that which is foolishness to him, that he cannot comprehend or receive because it is spiritually discerned? Much more to do with that subject matter than whether or not you choose to eat a taco for lunch. I had chicken udon and a California roll for lunch.

 

[SonJudgment]

Please excuse me saying so, but it really does sound like you are ascribing evil to God.

Well evil is the opposition to God's will. That still doesn't mean evil has a will of its own, as if the evil were their own gods, it just means those that side with evil are foolish and their opposition to the will of God is futile and vain.

 

[Gideon300]

Many have probably realised i don't think we can exercise free will, even think it's impossible for us to. Won't explain why i think it's an impossiblility for us yet, think it's useful for some to express why they think it exists first.

I have no doubt we have and can make choices throughout life, however, think our options are far more restricted than most realise. What do you think?

It depends on what you mean by free will. If you mean the ability to choose anything, not even God has that. God cannot lie, for example. We are free to choose but within limits. God holds us accountable for our choices. If we did not have free will, God would be unjust to judge us and we know that God is entirely just, righteous and holy.

We are not robots. So yes, we have free will. God gave Adam and Eve free will and never took that back. To say that we have no free will is a cop out that will not serve us well.

 

[maxwel]

You can. But even in choosing food, you pick foods you like based on taste buds that were created for you with built in preferences. And the clothes you choose are chosen often by styles and colors you prefer as a result of your Creator or were taught to prefer by parents not of your choosing.

So God chose for me to disagree with Calvinism?

Cause, I really love my Calvinist brothers and sisters, but if God ordained me to have this position... then I really don't want to change my mind.
: )
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[Webers.Home]

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Humanity's free will is limited.

For example; God willed a large percentage of Palestine to Abraham and his
posterity for a permanent possession. Abraham was given no say about it, in
other words: God's free will trumps everybody else's free will.
_

 

[Magenta]

So God chose for me to disagree with Calvinism?

Cause, I really love my Calvinist brothers and sisters, but if God ordained me to have this position... then I really don't want to change my mind.
: )
.

Kind of a sticky wicket, ain't it? I mean, if you were ordained not to believe a certain precept or set of principles/beliefs, and others were ordained to believe those same things, and nobody's budging, yet here we all are... were we then ordained to argue about these things?

PS ~ just to clarify... I am not a Calvinist, but I get called one because I do not believe the natural man's will is free to choose to believe as per all is said in the Bible about the natural man being a slave to sin and taken captive to the will of the devil, a lover of darkness, suppressing the truth in unrighteousness etc etc. And not just a lover of darkness but defined as darkness itself which does not comprehend the Light and believes the gospel is foolishness. Hard hearted toward God and inherently hostile in his mind. That person is nt going to "choose" to believe in Gd. Something has to change first.

 

[Cameron143]

So God chose for me to disagree with Calvinism?

Cause, I really love my Calvinist brothers and sisters, but if God ordained me to have this position... then I really don't want to change my mind.
: )
.

No, you chose. God ordained you to eternal life. You're on the hook for your choices still.

 

[Magenta]

No, you chose. God ordained you to eternal life. You're on the hook for your choices still.

Yes, if we stick with what Scripture says, man is without excuse. We all know there is a God, for the heavens
declare His glory. Knowing there is a God it then is incumbent upon us to seek Him out which is actually His
desire for us. Even so, God knows we are not really seeking HIM, and yet Jesus Christ is the embodiment of Truth.

 

[maxwel]

No, you chose. God ordained you to eternal life. You're on the hook for your choices still.

Ok, but according to your previous post, post #45 (and I know you wouldn't lie to me), all our preferences and personal choices that we "think" we are choosing for ourselves were all just preordained and created for us by God.

So... I kinda feel like I really don't have any choice but to disbelieve in Calvinism.


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[lrs68]

Grant it every passing day seems to be an improvement compared to the day before in my efforts to be more like Jesus and stop sinning. But still every day I do sin. And for the sins committed that are not intentional there are still some sins that are most definitely intentional.

Did I have to commit these sins? Were those sins predetermined and predestined and I was forced to sin because God made me do it? I know God is doing a good work in me and the day I am Raptured I will become perfect but in the mean time am I sinning intentionally because God made me?

Obviously the answer is NO, NO, and NO!!

I sin intentionally because I do it in free Will. I am saved and going to Heaven. My MASTER that I serve is the MOST HIGH GOD YHVH. So whenever I sin intentionally it's always done 100% from free will.

 

[Magenta]

Ok, but according to your previous post, post #45 (and I know you wouldn't lie to me), all our preferences and personal choices that we "think" we are choosing for ourselves were all just preordained and created for us by God.

So... I kinda feel like I really don't have any choice but to disbelieve in Calvinism.
.

The example was an either/or proposition, as in, either ordained by God or instilled by our parents.

I remember one time someone asking me why I had changed my mind. The best answer I could
come up with at the time was that my mind had changed itself, and I thought it best to follow...

Have you ever experienced anything like that?

 

[Cameron143]

Ok, but according to your previous post, post #45 (and I know you wouldn't lie to me), all our preferences and personal choices that we "think" we are choosing for ourselves were all just preordained and created for us by God.

So... I kinda feel like I really don't have any choice but to disbelieve in Calvinism.


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I didn't say all. I was merely pointing out so much of what we do is predicated upon things beyond our control and often beyond our consciousness.

 

[maxwel]

The example was an either/or proposition, as in, either ordained by God or instilled by our parents.

Ok.
But that still seems to leave me without any genuine volition.
At least that was the apparent implication as Cam The Man posted it.
(I'm presuming he's a man... I mean... I don't want to misgender him... but uh... ya know... he always seemed relatively man-like... but... geesh... these days... did you check his pronouns???)

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[maxwel]

I didn't say all. I was merely pointing out so much of what we do is predicated upon things beyond our control and often beyond our consciousness.

I think most of what I do is beyond my consciousness.
: )

 

[Cameron143]

I think most of what I do is beyond my consciousness.
: )

I concur. Does that mean with cur in Spanish?