Casting out devils

[BradC]

Many love to refer to those who claim to prophecy or cast out devils in the context of Mt 7:21-23.

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

However, we have this in the scriptures that must be reckoned with and what do we conclude from this in Mark 9?

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.


Jesus seems to be pretty clear on this and if we continue to examine the scriptures we also see the context of a false prophet and those who cast out devils in his name, as those who are being determined by their fruits. We are to examine the fruit and determine if they are lightly (or speedily) speaking evil of Christ after the miracle is done in his name. That is specific and not ambiguous. The conclusion is also as clear, 'For he that is not against us is on our part'. Are we going to leave room for the possibility that their will be those who cast out devils in his name, who do not speak evil of Christ and who are on Christ's part or our part? We must have discernment as to what is of God and what is not and it seems clear that we are not to be going around rebuking or forbidding or exposing this one and that one for doing miracles or works in Christ's name.

What have some of you have to say on these things?

 

[Ariel82]

irrelevant to the point that those people NEVER KNEW JESUS.

that they would want to speak evil of Jesus at all shows a heart that is NOT indwelled with the Holy Spirit.

It shows that there is POWER in JESUS' NAME and in the faith people have in JESUS and not those who claim to cast out the demon.

It warns us that just because a person appears to be holy and able to call upon the name of Jesus and a demon is cast out, that does not mean they are ARE holy or of God. For God sees beyond the outward things into the inward heart.

If a man or woman does it not for God's glory but in order to seek power and recognition for themselves, then their heart is not pure and they are still enslaved to sin. They do not know Jesus and Jesus does not know them even though they toss His name around as if it is a talisman able to aid them in their parlor tricks.

Also if they do not have the Gospel, if they do not preach Christ and His salvation to one who once had a demon, then they do that person no favors for seven more demons will just come to that empty house swept clean and their state will be worse then when they first started.

The wolves can not offer the sheep the peace, love and joy of the Holy Spirit in Faith when they do not have it themselves.

 

[kenisyes]

Sorry, Ariel, I'm with Brad on this one. Does any of us really know Jesus? Jesus is so much bigger than we can ever know, even in several lifetimes. These people at least knew the power of His name,which is more than some pastors of my acquaintance. We are all working out our salvation in fear and trembling, and, while you are correct there is much such people cannot offer the flock, we should not stop what little they can offer in the meantime. They are roughly parallel to the wisemen, who recognized Jesus, even though they did so through astrology. We do not know where these people will be with God 20 years later. Waiting for fruit and proper discernment is the appropriate response.

Technical point: almost no one in the world at that time had the Holy Spirit indwelling their heart. That waited until Pentecost day.

 

[notuptome]

Perhaps if we sought to be less powerful and mighty in the Lord we would actually receive greater authority and the wisdom to use it. He who would be first in the kingdom will be last.
Seek to be holy and seek to be in close fellowship with Christ. Get the focus back on Christ and do not be drawn away with casting out devils. You do not need to go looking for devils if you live close to the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[BradC]

I don't believe that we are going to see demon possession in these days in the same manner or manifestation as we see illustrated in the scriptures during the time of Christ. I believe that demonic spirits have had 2,000 years to become wiser then before but have the same motive to destroy and cast down those whom they are able to possess. Demonic spirits can not take over anyone's humanity by force, they must be given a place. This happens when the individual is broken down continually to a place of weakness, having no power to resist this force and are overcome. More than one demonic spirit can inhabit a human body. The soul of the demon possessed has no ability of its own to cast out the demons inhabiting the body. They either leave on their own or they are cast out by a greater authority because the soul of the inhabited is in captivity and the individual will not be in their right mind. Confusion and many forms of distortion take over the mind through these demonic spirits who greatly oppress the imaginations to gain access to the soul of the body they inhabit. Just imagine the diverse kinds of demonic spirits that roam the earth looking for a dwelling place ti inhabit.

Luke 8:26-37 26 And they arrived at the country of the Gadarenes, which is over against Galilee.27 And when he went forth to land, there met him out of the city a certain man, which had devils long time, and ware no clothes, neither abode in any house, but in the tombs.
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.
29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
34 When they that fed them saw what was done, they fled, and went and told it in the city and in the country.
35 Then they went out to see what was done; and came to Jesus, and found the man, out of whom the devils were departed, sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
36 They also which saw it told them by what means he that was possessed of the devils was healed.
37 Then the whole multitude of the country of the Gadarenes round about besought him to depart from them; for they were taken with great fear: and he went up into the ship, and returned back again.

 

[Ariel82]

there i disagree with you. Demons use the same tactics, they don't have the ability to change or "become wiser"

[h=3]2 Corinthians 2:10-11[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)


[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now whom you forgive anything, I also forgive. For if indeed I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven that one[SUP][a][/SUP] for your sakes in the presence of Christ, [SUP]11[/SUP]lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.

one of the devices: ignoring scriptures that don't fit preconceived notions

 

[BradC]

First, I am talking about sinners who have not been redeemed by the blood of Christ. They are the ones who become vulnerable to demonic activity that could result in demonic possession. The strategies and devices that they may use in this present evil world are adapted to the way people think in this life. We are far more complicated and overrun today in the imaginations of our thought life then even 100 years ago. This is just a topic thread and I don't lose sleep over this but we should be aware and be discerning (through the word and Spirit) concerning the spirits that are out in the world and what they are doing. If God's plan puts us in the midst of this how do we respond if we are walking and being led by the Spirit? This is a discussion and nothing more.

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, the first devil to be cast out is the devil in us that is called 'self' by the Word.
As it is said and written by the LORD; "Forget your 'self' and carry your own cross." CHRIST is referring to the teachings of HIS New Covenant teaches us, as we practice them we will have to suffer them (the mentioned cross), for they are true teachings of GOD's love in and through CHRIST for others.
Why blame the devil for everything when we ourselves became the deception and continuing in ignorance to the written Word in the New Covenant?
Lawlessness!

 

[SpaceCowboy]

Do you mean like. How can someone distinguish between someone who loves Christ out of sincerity and those who will fall into the category of Mt. 7:22 if both can cast out devils in the Lords name?

 

[danschance]

I believe the tactics demons use have changed in response to Jesus changing things on them. In the Old Testament they had limited authority over evil spirits. Jesus gave us authority to cast demons out. So demons adapted a new tactic from an old one.

Satan had in the past played on God's sense of fairness. We see in Job that satan brings a charge against Job. Satan claims that Job is a righteous man because of all the blessings and protection God has given him. Then God agrees that he should be tested and drops the protection around Job, his family, health and wealth.

Today demons claim to have a "legal right" to stay in a person. The use unrepentant sin as an excuse to why they can not be cast out. The first time I attempted to cast out a demon the demon told me "I have rights". I asked the demon to tell me what this right is and he refused to tell me. After I gave hi some "encouragement" he said the right was her father raped her.

I couldn't understand how this could be a right to stay in her and the demon started laughing at my ignorance. I asked an experienced deliverance minister about this and he said the victim must forgive the father for the rape, break soul ties and the demon will leave. I did as he suggested and the demon "depression" instantly left her.

Here is an article which explains this concept.
Demonic legal rights - deliverance teachings

 

[fredjames]

Peace be with you, what is the point that believers have the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT and continuing in CHRIST's work and yet they live in ignorance to the Word of GOD of the New Covenant through CHRIST and the Apostles which is to abide (learn and practice) and be obedient to?
That is why at the end, their labor (talents) were conducted in vain and rejected because they lived a 'lawless' citizen's life here on earth representing Heaven, ignoring the Word of GOD of the New Covenant which teaches them obedience and true love for others.
We only helped those who need help by our own understanding of love and ignored CHRIST's and the Apostle's Teaching of SPIRIT and Life of GOD's Love (Agape) which completes the New Covenant to truly help those who truly need help.
They are rejected because in their own understanding they love only those who love them and greet those who greet them and lend to those who they know will pay them back.
Thus says the LORD JESUS CHRIST, the New Covenant builder in HIS reminder and the stirring of our memory to all that is written, as the Apostles were witnesses to them and reminded the church to abide.