Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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Uh...... yeah, I am a Christian/Catholic.
Duh?
Duh?
If it was rhetorical or evident, I would not be asking, but would hope that if the answer to these questions was affirmative and done by faith through the justification of blood of Christ, that you would be sincere and earnest to express with your own verbal confession when this great salvation took place in your life. Being such a great salvation being drawn and convicted by the Holy Spirit, shouldn't it be marked by a specific time when we believed and trust in Christ for that salvation!
S
What he wants is for you to tell him about the time you had a "Sinner's prayer" moment. But what he fails to realize is that as Catholics we have no such thing. We were either baptized as infants and reaffirmed our Faith at Confirmation or we were baptized as adults and affirmed that Faith in our baptismal vows. Which I will list below for Red. Also note that when an adult is being baptized "we do" changes to "I do" since the adult is making the profession and not his parents on his behalf.
P. Do you renounce Satan?
Answer: We do.
P. And all his works?
Answer: We do.
P. And all his pomps?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe that there is only one God, the Creator, Preserver and Ruler of all things and the Father of all men?
A: We do.
P. Do you believe that this our God and Father is a just judge, Who rewards the good and punishes the wicked?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe that in one God there are three Divine Persons - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe that the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Jesus Christ, was made man, was conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried, descended into hell, and on the third day rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty, and from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe that the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, God the Holy Ghost, enables us to live and accomplish what is right and just, and that without His grace no one can be saved?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe in and openly profess the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
A. We do.
P. If you have firmly resolved to live in accordance with the holy doctrine of Christ, ever to remain faithful to His Church, to avoid sin, to love God with your whole heart, and your neighbor as yourself, declare now this your will, and promise in the presence of the All-seeing God, before your parents, teachers, and the whole congregration.
A. This we have firmly resolved and do now solemnly promise in the presence of the All-seeing God, our Lord and Savior, before our parents, pastor, teachers, and the whole congregration.
P. Do you renounce Satan?
Answer: We do.
P. And all his works?
Answer: We do.
P. And all his pomps?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe that there is only one God, the Creator, Preserver and Ruler of all things and the Father of all men?
A: We do.
P. Do you believe that this our God and Father is a just judge, Who rewards the good and punishes the wicked?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe that in one God there are three Divine Persons - God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe that the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Jesus Christ, was made man, was conceived of the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried, descended into hell, and on the third day rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty, and from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe that the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, God the Holy Ghost, enables us to live and accomplish what is right and just, and that without His grace no one can be saved?
A. We do.
P. Do you believe in and openly profess the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?
A. We do.
P. If you have firmly resolved to live in accordance with the holy doctrine of Christ, ever to remain faithful to His Church, to avoid sin, to love God with your whole heart, and your neighbor as yourself, declare now this your will, and promise in the presence of the All-seeing God, before your parents, teachers, and the whole congregration.
A. This we have firmly resolved and do now solemnly promise in the presence of the All-seeing God, our Lord and Savior, before our parents, pastor, teachers, and the whole congregration.
Salvation by grace is only for those who are lost through sin and the scripture tells us that all have sinned. Baptism does not saves our soul the blood of Christ does and we have to understand that as a sinner through the revelation of the Spirit, which an infant has no capacity to understand. Salvation can not be transferred nor be given by proxy through infant baptism, it must be understood by the sinner and received by faith.
B
I am Catholic, and I don't believe this post was meant to be hurtful but it is too me. This is a Christian Chat Room. I am a Christian and when I found this website I was so glad that I found a great place to chat to meet friends. But now I see comments like "They can find their own chat room." I am a Christian there for I should be able to chat here. I don't think its necessary to tell me that my beliefs are fake. I believe in Jesus Christ and know that he is my savior. I don't worship anything or anyone but him. Wedo not pray "to" Mary as an equal to God. They pray "through" Mary as an intercessor who prays to God on behalf of mankind. Im really disappointed CC...
Nice work Sherlock. Baptism is meant to cleanse, remember John the Baptist?
Salvation is through the body and blood of Christ, and we remember His sacrifice through the sacrament of communion.
Baptism cleanses a baby (or adult), then First Communion and Confirmation provide the rest for Salvation, the last of the three I guess it is the equivalent to you folks' "Being Saved".
Hope this clear it out for you.
Salvation is through the body and blood of Christ, and we remember His sacrifice through the sacrament of communion.
Baptism cleanses a baby (or adult), then First Communion and Confirmation provide the rest for Salvation, the last of the three I guess it is the equivalent to you folks' "Being Saved".
Hope this clear it out for you.
I am Catholic, and I don't believe this post was meant to be hurtful but it is too me. This is a Christian Chat Room. I am a Christian and when I found this website I was so glad that I found a great place to chat to meet friends. But now I see comments like "They can find their own chat room." I am a Christian there for I should be able to chat here. I don't think its necessary to tell me that my beliefs are fake. I believe in Jesus Christ and know that he is my savior. I don't worship anything or anyone but him. Wedo not pray "to" Mary as an equal to God. They pray "through" Mary as an intercessor who prays to God on behalf of mankind. Im really disappointed CC...
G
Baptism does not actually *do* anything to the believer. It is a one-time outward physical testimonial display of a one-time inward spiritual transformation that has already occurred. Baptism therefore MUST follow that which it represents...
The idea of being baptized first and saved later makes no sense.
By the way -- the word 'baptize' LITERALLY means "to immerse" or "submerge"... (This should be a CLUE... )
.
The idea of being baptized first and saved later makes no sense.
By the way -- the word 'baptize' LITERALLY means "to immerse" or "submerge"... (This should be a CLUE...
).
G
I am Catholic, and I don't believe this post was meant to be hurtful but it is too me. This is a Christian Chat Room. I am a Christian and when I found this website I was so glad that I found a great place to chat to meet friends. But now I see comments like "They can find their own chat room." I am a Christian there for I should be able to chat here. I don't think its necessary to tell me that my beliefs are fake. I believe in Jesus Christ and know that he is my savior. I don't worship anything or anyone but him. Wedo not pray "to" Mary as an equal to God. They pray "through" Mary as an intercessor who prays to God on behalf of mankind. Im really disappointed CC...
I believe that many of the statements and remarks of the other posters are meant to "warn" the Catholic people that they are members of a church / denomination / system that is based on - and maintains - erroneous doctrine and false teaching.
The "target" of these various posts is NOT the Catholic people, but rather, the Catholic Church and its erroneous doctrine and false teaching.
These people - with or without 'tact' - are trying to get you to see that you have been "swallowed up" in the deceptions of Satan.
The Lord Jesus Christ Himself is the only intercessor between God and man. Period. No one else is worthy.
An example of bad doctrine in Catholicism:
"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. " ~ Matthew 23:9
(It is speaking spiritually.)
What is the title that Catholicism gives to the priests?
.
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M
I always find it amusing when someone picks one line to disprove something, try reading your whole bible!
1 John 2:12-14
I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake. I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
Hebrews 12:7-11
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Acts 7:2
And Stephen said: “Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran"
Acts 22:1-5
“Brothers and fathers, hear the defense that I now make before you.”
And when they heard that he was addressing them in the Hebrew language, they became even more quiet. And he said: “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day. I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women, as the high priest and the whole council of elders can bear me witness. From them I received letters to the brothers, and I journeyed toward Damascus to take those also who were there and bring them in bonds to Jerusalem to be punished."
Judges 17:7-13
Now there was a young man of Bethlehem in Judah, of the family of Judah, who was a Levite, and he sojourned there. And the man departed from the town of Bethlehem in Judah to sojourn where he could find a place. And as he journeyed, he came to the hill country of Ephraim to the house of Micah. And Micah said to him, “Where do you come from?” And he said to him, “I am a Levite of Bethlehem in Judah, and I am going to sojourn where I may find a place.” And Micah said to him, “Stay with me, and be to me a father and a priest, and I will give you ten pieces of silver a year and a suit of clothes and your living.” And the Levite went in. And the Levite was content to dwell with the man, and the young man became to him like one of his sons. And Micah ordained the Levite, and the young man became his priest, and was in the house of Micah. Then Micah said, “Now I know that the Lord will prosper me, because I have a Levite as priest."
So you can see many times does the bible refer to spiritual fathers, in fact read the book of acts and you will see how the writer refers to people as fathers. The problem you have with that passage in Matthew is you are not drawing out the proper context, he is warning against calling hypocrites and evildoers as our (spiritual) fathers, which is entirely different!
1 John 2:12-14
I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake. I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
Hebrews 12:7-11
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Acts 7:2
And Stephen said: “Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran"
Acts 22:1-5
“Brothers and fathers, hear the defense that I now make before you.”
And when they heard that he was addressing them in the Hebrew language, they became even more quiet. And he said: “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day. I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering to prison both men and women, as the high priest and the whole council of elders can bear me witness. From them I received letters to the brothers, and I journeyed toward Damascus to take those also who were there and bring them in bonds to Jerusalem to be punished."
Judges 17:7-13
Now there was a young man of Bethlehem in Judah, of the family of Judah, who was a Levite, and he sojourned there. And the man departed from the town of Bethlehem in Judah to sojourn where he could find a place. And as he journeyed, he came to the hill country of Ephraim to the house of Micah. And Micah said to him, “Where do you come from?” And he said to him, “I am a Levite of Bethlehem in Judah, and I am going to sojourn where I may find a place.” And Micah said to him, “Stay with me, and be to me a father and a priest, and I will give you ten pieces of silver a year and a suit of clothes and your living.” And the Levite went in. And the Levite was content to dwell with the man, and the young man became to him like one of his sons. And Micah ordained the Levite, and the young man became his priest, and was in the house of Micah. Then Micah said, “Now I know that the Lord will prosper me, because I have a Levite as priest."
So you can see many times does the bible refer to spiritual fathers, in fact read the book of acts and you will see how the writer refers to people as fathers. The problem you have with that passage in Matthew is you are not drawing out the proper context, he is warning against calling hypocrites and evildoers as our (spiritual) fathers, which is entirely different!
S
He probably could have phrased it better. Baptism is a one-time event that cleanses a person from original sin and any personal sin (as the creed says "I believe in one baptism for the remission of sins") and initially saves a person. A person may lose this baptismal state when they commit mortal sin, but it can be restored through confession. Catholics have no concept of being "saved" as we are continually being saved, and officially in many Catholic books it's considered presumptuous to assume that we are saved before we have actually attained salvation.
R
Last night my brother and I were discussing our childhood in the Catholic church- specifically the first time we had to go to confession.
My brother spoke of how uncomfortable it was because the priest kept insisting he had done more wrong and needed to reflect harder on all his bad deeds so he could be forgiven. He was just a kid and his sins up to that point were really just fighting with his siblings and talking back. No...the priest believed there was so much more he had done wrong, he just wasn't trying hard enough.
I experienced a bit of that, but what really stood out to me was the absurdity of the priest telling me if I said specific prayers a specific number of times, then I would be forgiven. Repenting was never discussed or even apologizing to the people I had hurt (or God, even). Simply doing works would make it like it never happened. Even as a young kid who didn't know anything, I knew that was weird and probably wrong.
There are probably Catholics who will say there was something wrong with the priest and they were just doing it wrong, but that's tired. 'No true scotsman' can't be the only consistent defense for one's denomination.
My brother spoke of how uncomfortable it was because the priest kept insisting he had done more wrong and needed to reflect harder on all his bad deeds so he could be forgiven. He was just a kid and his sins up to that point were really just fighting with his siblings and talking back. No...the priest believed there was so much more he had done wrong, he just wasn't trying hard enough.
I experienced a bit of that, but what really stood out to me was the absurdity of the priest telling me if I said specific prayers a specific number of times, then I would be forgiven. Repenting was never discussed or even apologizing to the people I had hurt (or God, even). Simply doing works would make it like it never happened. Even as a young kid who didn't know anything, I knew that was weird and probably wrong.
There are probably Catholics who will say there was something wrong with the priest and they were just doing it wrong, but that's tired. 'No true scotsman' can't be the only consistent defense for one's denomination.
S
Nothing specifically wrong with that. The priest was trying to make him understand what makes a good confession, perhaps he could have been less pushy.
By nature of confession you are already repentant if your in the confessional. The prayers are penance which is in effect making repartitions to God by offering him prayers. But I will say in my whole life as a Catholic and the 8 or 9 priests I've had throughout my life I've never had a specific prayer prescribed for penance, I've had things like "pray for the sick" as penance, but never specific prayers like the Hail Mary. If I had wronged someone the penance was usually to apologize if I had not already done so.
The moment the priest gives absolution you are forgiven the penance ought to be done to encourage piety, but the forgiveness that has been granted is in no way conditional on performing the penance
In a way it is somewhat since Vatican II. Most priests in your childhood would have been pre-Vatican II taught and trained and would be more used to the older form of confession which encouraged a preset number of prayers as penance . Such emphasis has changed and I have not encountered it from any priest that I've had, which have all been trained and taught after Vatican II.
So you can say you encountered the "old-method" which is still valid but has been phased out since Vatican II for the "new-method".
By nature of confession you are already repentant if your in the confessional. The prayers are penance which is in effect making repartitions to God by offering him prayers. But I will say in my whole life as a Catholic and the 8 or 9 priests I've had throughout my life I've never had a specific prayer prescribed for penance, I've had things like "pray for the sick" as penance, but never specific prayers like the Hail Mary. If I had wronged someone the penance was usually to apologize if I had not already done so.
The moment the priest gives absolution you are forgiven the penance ought to be done to encourage piety, but the forgiveness that has been granted is in no way conditional on performing the penance
In a way it is somewhat since Vatican II. Most priests in your childhood would have been pre-Vatican II taught and trained and would be more used to the older form of confession which encouraged a preset number of prayers as penance . Such emphasis has changed and I have not encountered it from any priest that I've had, which have all been trained and taught after Vatican II.
So you can say you encountered the "old-method" which is still valid but has been phased out since Vatican II for the "new-method".
S
@SantoSubito Where is the verse?