Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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This is not a response to anything you said Roger, but I just realized something. Surely not absolute, but I just realized that most people who levels this against those who disagree usually don't find it uncomfortable themselves, hence holding the belief they do.
It's easy to minimize someone else's perceived discomfort of said truth when it bothers the accuser not. Again, not all and not pinning it on you, but I've noticed it's generally the case - dismissing an academic or theological argument by labeling it as an emotional one.
It's easy to minimize someone else's perceived discomfort of said truth when it bothers the accuser not. Again, not all and not pinning it on you, but I've noticed it's generally the case - dismissing an academic or theological argument by labeling it as an emotional one.
Which is why you teach they all go to hell? Purgatory is hell and there is no way of escape. Jesus taught that in Luke 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
God has declared that His word will divide even unto the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You might just be wrong, and you are in this matter. Catholics do not teach that even the pope goes directly into heaven but must atone for his sins in purgatory. Purgatory is hell fire and condemnation. Jesus revealed that there is no escape from that place of condemnation. Are you saying Jesus did not know what He was teaching?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
What about the Catholic Doctrine that declared in 1854 that Mary was without sin!
Romans 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
The Catholics have declared that Mary was without sin to keep Jesus free from Sin, BUT yet God clearly says Mary was a sinner because ALL are under sin and ALL have sinned.
This proves the Catholics HATE the Truth from God and follow the lies of Satan.
Matthew 6:24
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other.
You Catholics cannot serve God AND Pray to Mary because you are serving two Masters.
As it stands today i really do not see any Catholic entering into Heaven. They serve Mary as their God and the reject all the Truths in the Scriptures from God to serve their Mary.
Romans 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
The Catholics have declared that Mary was without sin to keep Jesus free from Sin, BUT yet God clearly says Mary was a sinner because ALL are under sin and ALL have sinned.
This proves the Catholics HATE the Truth from God and follow the lies of Satan.
Matthew 6:24
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other.
You Catholics cannot serve God AND Pray to Mary because you are serving two Masters.
As it stands today i really do not see any Catholic entering into Heaven. They serve Mary as their God and the reject all the Truths in the Scriptures from God to serve their Mary.
What is interesting is nowhere in the Scriptures does God say there is a Purgatory.
I submit a challenge to all you Catholics. Show us where in the Scriptures does God ever say there is Purgatory. I do know for a FACT, no Catholic will ever take up this challenge. Listen to what they say and i predict they WILL squirm around this challenge and try to deceive us with what the Catholic Church says instead of using the Scriptures.
There is Heaven, there is Hell and there is the Lake of Fire. Nowhere is there a Purgatory.
The Catholics have been deceived by the Corrupted Catholic Church.
I submit a challenge to all you Catholics. Show us where in the Scriptures does God ever say there is Purgatory. I do know for a FACT, no Catholic will ever take up this challenge. Listen to what they say and i predict they WILL squirm around this challenge and try to deceive us with what the Catholic Church says instead of using the Scriptures.
There is Heaven, there is Hell and there is the Lake of Fire. Nowhere is there a Purgatory.
The Catholics have been deceived by the Corrupted Catholic Church.
Much like the Holy Trinity then, yes? That word "Trinity" is not in scripture either. It is a name we beleivers give to God's 3 persons which are spoken of in scripture.
The word purgatory is not in scripture either, yet scripture speaks of a state of being after bodily death, a state of being which we beleivers call Purgatory.
The word purgatory is not in scripture either, yet scripture speaks of a state of being after bodily death, a state of being which we beleivers call Purgatory.
The issue is not what Scripture doesn't or does teach, but the misrepresentation of other believers. Claiming they believe something they don't by twisting their beliefs with your interpretation of Scripture. The issue (and this happens on both sides) is using one's own approach to condemn a different conclusion, when that conclusion didn't use the same approach.
It's one thing to say you disagree with someone based on Scripture. It's another thing to say you disagree with something Catholics don't even confess (claiming they confess it) by using Scripture. It's underhanded, dishonest, and esp uncalled for upon being corrected about spreading lies and widening the division in the Body of Christ. And one thing I DO feel is taught very clearly in the Bible is that those in positions of authority and teaching, will be held to a higher accountability for the divisions in the Church that hinders her mission and purpose, the hypocrisy that causes the Gentiles to blasphmene God.
If being Christian means repenting of sin and calling upon the divine Son of God for salvation, Catholics qualify - notice the lack of other qualifiers, like "only faith in only Jesus." Which most Protestants confess, but don't practice, because they say you also must grow and learn obedience in Christ or you fall away...
Sounds like faith plus works to me. Just because it's called a Sola Fide faith doesn't mean that's what you are teaching. I don't mean we shouldn't actually grow or rebuke each other, but to teach AND practice this radical grace that is preached, you'd have to let go of control and allow believers to dictate their own lives and belief and worship. Few preachers will actually allow believers to arrive at their own intrepretation without being stigmatized. Which... If it's "faith in Christ alone" I'd ask them "why are you kicking me out or harshly rebuking me over a different interpretation on a completely unrelated topic?"
I'm aware of the argument how the works and growth is done by Christ through the believer, so they still get no credit for it. Like you change just because you're a believer and submit to Jesus. That's fine, but to turn around and tell other Christians what they must make of this or that political issue, this or that doctrine... this doesn't reflect an understanding that Jesus does it all - He needs help, apparently.
I see good points and beliefs on both sides to this divide. But one this I will say about the Catholic Church is they come right out and say upon converting "yeah, you're going to have to change, and yes your decisons does affect your ultimate destination." Protestants don't come right out and say this, in many cases, but that's how they approach life as a believer. You have a set of rules you generally follow through you life, you basic set of central truths and those are not open to flux or questioning (like the Catholic Church on a whole is not open to being rebuked by it's members). Not much different than how Catholics approach worship, but at least they don't beat around the bush and call it something that in principle and practice it clearly isn't.
The Catholic church's doctrine is handed by God and the church guides the truth in that respect. Protestant churches don't come right out and say this concerning what they teach - but they imply it by demonizing other Protestant churches, be it over the gifts of the Spirit, the style or worship, the form of baptizing - these things their church teaches they often treat the same way Catholics treat their church's teachings, handed by God to reveal Scripture to them. If the "cleaf" words of Scripture was really the crux of it all, what is so threatening about hearing what someone else says about Scripture?
On the other hand, I believe the Protestant sentiment of "read it for myself" is healthy for growing believer or anyone wanting to dig deeply into the sacred texts. I believe the church dictaing truth bar none is not good for inquisitive minds. I do not like the idea of the church telling me what to believe and again, I point that out because you often see the same attitudes and approach to authority in individual Protestant denominations.
I could go on about things I appreciate on both sides, but I'll stop here.
It's one thing to say you disagree with someone based on Scripture. It's another thing to say you disagree with something Catholics don't even confess (claiming they confess it) by using Scripture. It's underhanded, dishonest, and esp uncalled for upon being corrected about spreading lies and widening the division in the Body of Christ. And one thing I DO feel is taught very clearly in the Bible is that those in positions of authority and teaching, will be held to a higher accountability for the divisions in the Church that hinders her mission and purpose, the hypocrisy that causes the Gentiles to blasphmene God.
If being Christian means repenting of sin and calling upon the divine Son of God for salvation, Catholics qualify - notice the lack of other qualifiers, like "only faith in only Jesus." Which most Protestants confess, but don't practice, because they say you also must grow and learn obedience in Christ or you fall away...
Sounds like faith plus works to me. Just because it's called a Sola Fide faith doesn't mean that's what you are teaching. I don't mean we shouldn't actually grow or rebuke each other, but to teach AND practice this radical grace that is preached, you'd have to let go of control and allow believers to dictate their own lives and belief and worship. Few preachers will actually allow believers to arrive at their own intrepretation without being stigmatized. Which... If it's "faith in Christ alone" I'd ask them "why are you kicking me out or harshly rebuking me over a different interpretation on a completely unrelated topic?"
I'm aware of the argument how the works and growth is done by Christ through the believer, so they still get no credit for it. Like you change just because you're a believer and submit to Jesus. That's fine, but to turn around and tell other Christians what they must make of this or that political issue, this or that doctrine... this doesn't reflect an understanding that Jesus does it all - He needs help, apparently.
I see good points and beliefs on both sides to this divide. But one this I will say about the Catholic Church is they come right out and say upon converting "yeah, you're going to have to change, and yes your decisons does affect your ultimate destination." Protestants don't come right out and say this, in many cases, but that's how they approach life as a believer. You have a set of rules you generally follow through you life, you basic set of central truths and those are not open to flux or questioning (like the Catholic Church on a whole is not open to being rebuked by it's members). Not much different than how Catholics approach worship, but at least they don't beat around the bush and call it something that in principle and practice it clearly isn't.
The Catholic church's doctrine is handed by God and the church guides the truth in that respect. Protestant churches don't come right out and say this concerning what they teach - but they imply it by demonizing other Protestant churches, be it over the gifts of the Spirit, the style or worship, the form of baptizing - these things their church teaches they often treat the same way Catholics treat their church's teachings, handed by God to reveal Scripture to them. If the "cleaf" words of Scripture was really the crux of it all, what is so threatening about hearing what someone else says about Scripture?
On the other hand, I believe the Protestant sentiment of "read it for myself" is healthy for growing believer or anyone wanting to dig deeply into the sacred texts. I believe the church dictaing truth bar none is not good for inquisitive minds. I do not like the idea of the church telling me what to believe and again, I point that out because you often see the same attitudes and approach to authority in individual Protestant denominations.
I could go on about things I appreciate on both sides, but I'll stop here.
Show us where jamie26301 in the Scriptures that God has said Salvation is received by Works?
This is the MAIN problem with the Catholics. They believe a person receives Salvation BY THEIR OWN EFFORTS!
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Salvation is by Grace and Faith ONLY! The Catholics pervert the Word of God by adding Works to the equation for Salvation.
This is why i totally believe today that NO Catholic will ever enter into Heaven.
I see no change in the Catholic life. They Worship Mary, they try to Work for their Salvation, and they try to deceive people into following them into hell.
Repent jamie26301. Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Reject Mary and Worship God only! If you do not do this you will never enter into Heaven.
This is the MAIN problem with the Catholics. They believe a person receives Salvation BY THEIR OWN EFFORTS!
Ephesians 2:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Salvation is by Grace and Faith ONLY! The Catholics pervert the Word of God by adding Works to the equation for Salvation.
This is why i totally believe today that NO Catholic will ever enter into Heaven.
I see no change in the Catholic life. They Worship Mary, they try to Work for their Salvation, and they try to deceive people into following them into hell.
Repent jamie26301. Accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Reject Mary and Worship God only! If you do not do this you will never enter into Heaven.
I never have used the Word Trinity.
But you Catholics do use the Word Purgatory. You Catholics do teach Purgatory as a place.
Now what about Mary. You Catholics do teach Mary was without Sin, but yet God clearly says Mary was a sinner because ALL have sinned and ALL includes Mary.
Romans 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
So why do you Catholics spit in the eye of God and say Mary was without sin?
But you Catholics do use the Word Purgatory. You Catholics do teach Purgatory as a place.
Now what about Mary. You Catholics do teach Mary was without Sin, but yet God clearly says Mary was a sinner because ALL have sinned and ALL includes Mary.
Romans 3:9-12
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
So why do you Catholics spit in the eye of God and say Mary was without sin?
You don't understand the gravity of the situation. Their eternal souls are at stake. A lie no matter how sincerely believed is still a lie. God does not lie but in Him is all truth.
Catholics are religious but lost. A man is not saved by religion but through the blood of Jesus Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Catholics are religious but lost. A man is not saved by religion but through the blood of Jesus Christ.
For the cause of Christ
Roger