Catholic vs Protestant Debate.

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Depleted

Guest
#241
#241
franciscan said:
Just joined the site and thought I'd post here.

Basics are that the Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Jesus. History shows this, as we can trace all popes back to Peter, for one example.

Also, it was the Catholic Church (only church at the time), that decided what books belonged in the Bible.
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(Covering my eyes to avoid giving new person evil-eye-look for bringing back a DEAD thread.)

Yeah. So. That's what you've been taught. Now feel free to go check out the truth.

Been where you are. Never bothered needing anyone to teach me otherwise. Just did about half an hour to one hour's worth of my own research.

Real history tells why both of what you think is history isn't real.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#242
#242
franciscan said:
Lucy, can you elaborate on how these are lies?
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You're over the age of 13. You're officially old enough to do your own investigation. Why do you need anyone to elaborate? Learn it yourself.
 
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Depleted

Guest
#243
#243
eternally-gratefull said:
The Catholic Church was not the first church, the first church was the church in Jerusalem.

Peter was not the first pope. He shared leadership with James and John in the church at Jerusalem.

The books in the Bible was decided before the Catholic Church was even formed. God did not wait a few centuries to decide what books belonged and what did not.
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... and Constantine wasn't Catholic.

(Couldn't resist.)
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#244
Jul 18, 2017
24,601
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#244
franciscan said:
Just joined the site and thought I'd post here.
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Hi franciscan, and Welcome!
Basics are that the Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Jesus. History shows this, as we can trace all popes back to Peter, for one example.
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If you are referring to the Roman Catholic Church, it took about 400 years to become the church that it is. The first church was established in Jerusalem, and later on there was a church in Rome. Strangely enough, when Paul wrote his letter to the Romans, he failed to remind his readers that Peter was their first pope. In fact he did not even mention Peter in that epistle! In fact Peter would have been surprised to discover that he was the first bishop of Rome, since he knew he was the apostle to the Jews, not the Gentiles, and his epistles are not addressed to the church at Rome.

In any event, we must distinguish between the Church which Christ established (all genuinely redeemed Jews and Gentiles), which is His Body, Bride, and Building, and the local churches of Jerusalem, Rome, Alexandria, Ephesus etc. As we see in Scripture all local churches had both wheat and tares.
Also, it was the Catholic Church (only church at the time), that decided what books belonged in the Bible.
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This is what the RCC would have us believe, but in fact the canon of Scripture was established LONG BEFORE the RCC came into existence. The Hebrew canon was already established by 400 BC and the Greek canon was established by AD 100. Thus we have the Muratori Canon (c AD 200) which lists almost every book in the New Testament.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#245
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#245
franciscan said:
Just joined the site and thought I'd post here.

Basics are that the Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Jesus. History shows this, as we can trace all popes back to Peter, for one example.

Also, it was the Catholic Church (only church at the time), that decided what books belonged in the Bible.
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The church that Jesus founded was Jewish apostles and disciples. They met in the Jewish temple outer court at first.

Peter never liked Gentiles so he would never have been a good choice to be a pope plus he never traveled to Rome.

Your historical evidence comes from Roman Catholic sources that are fatally flawed in their bias.

Jesus church is an organism not an organization. The church of Jesus is comprised of born again blood bought believers not people who swear allegiance to the pope who claims to be the vicar of Christ here on earth. FYI the Vicar of Christ is the Holy Spirit not the pope.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#246
Feb 12, 2015
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#246
franciscan said:
Just joined the site and thought I'd post here.

Basics are that the Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Jesus. History shows this, as we can trace all popes back to Peter, for one example.

Also, it was the Catholic Church (only church at the time), that decided what books belonged in the Bible.
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Jesus taught: Love your enemies. Pray for those who despitefully use you. The Catholic church responded with crusades, inquisition, burnings and torture.

Jesus taught (in a Spiritual sense) Call no man father. Catholics call their priesthood father.

Scripture says that a pastor must be the husband of one wife. Catholics make their priests celibate and those priests sexually abuse children.

Scripture teaches 1 Tim 2:5-6
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
KJV

Catholics pray to Mary and to dead saints.

Peter was NEVER in any Way the leader of the 1st century Church.

James led the Church at Jerusalem.

There is much more but deal with this first
 
Katy-follower

Katy-follower

Senior Member
#247
Jun 25, 2011
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#247
franciscan said:
Basics are that the Catholic Church is the original Church founded by Jesus. History shows this, as we can trace all popes back to Peter, for one example
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It was Paul who was appointed as apostle to the gentiles (uncircumcised) and Peter to the Jews, so no link between Peter and the Roman church....

Galatians 2:6-8: "But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me. But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me (Paul), as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles)"

The early church was in Jerusalem, not Rome. And in Acts 15 it was James who was leader of the council meeting.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#249
#249
franciscan said:
But the entire Church was Catholic until (not counting the Orthodox scism in 1050), the Protestant reformation in the 1500's.
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The catholic church as you know it is not the church that Christ started. The catholic church as you know it was the only church because if anyone had any other belief, they were imprisoned, executed as heretics, other horrific things. They were the only church ALLOWED.

You can not read the NT and think that is who God wanted us to do. or think that is how the church looked.
 
Lucy-Pevensie

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
#250
Dec 20, 2017
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#250
franciscan said:
But the entire Church was Catholic until (not counting the Orthodox scism in 1050), the Protestant reformation in the 1500's.
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You just aren't getting this are you? Please read post 244 and cross-reference it with The Bible.

The Catholic Church institution came into being because of empire. It is a method to control the saints. It wasn't handed down from Jesus and his first apostles and followers to a Roman Pontiff.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#251
#251
Lucy-Pevensie said:
You just aren't getting this are you? Please read post 244 and cross-reference it with The Bible.

The Catholic Church institution came into being because of empire. It is a method to control the saints. It wasn't handed down from Jesus and his first apostles and followers to a Roman Pontiff.
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Amen, they do not realize, the reason the reformation did not occure until it did, was because until then Rome had power to squash every opposition to its religion. If Luther was born 1000 years earlier and tried the same thing, we would never know his name, he would have been squashed by the roman church (I am sure they would have like that) but that is just not the way God told us to do things.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#252
May 17, 2013
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#252
Interesting the church is indeed catholic in the proper use of the word. Catholic as universal describes the Christian church. It is universal in that every believer is part of the church without respect to tribe or tongue. Every born again blood bought believer who is baptized by the Holy Spirit unto new life in Christ is part of the church that Christ birthed.

The Roman catholic church is not universal nor is it Christian but papal. It has for centuries excluded all others who were not water baptized into the Roman catholic church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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Depleted

Guest
#253
#253
franciscan said:
But the entire Church was Catholic until (not counting the Orthodox scism in 1050), the Protestant reformation in the 1500's.
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Another delusion the RCC likes to teach that you can learn simply isn't true with your own investigating.

There were 8 schisms before the end of the first century.

Honestly, if you aren't into investigating, who cares?

We do know the truth. So what's your goal? Propaganda? You really need naive people to pull that off, so it simply won't work.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#255
#255
franciscan said:
We do know who all the popes were back to Peter:
Peter (32-67)
Linus (67-76)
Anacletus (76-88)
Clement I (88-97)
Evaristus (97-105), and the entire list is here CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: List of Popes
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Peter was nto a pope.

What you have is a strawman made by the catholic church to try to denounce all othger churches, and puff themself up.

Stick to the word of God (inspired) and not the words of men (not inspired)

Petrer was not even the rock the church was built on (christ was) peter was just one of the stones being built up. With christ being the chief cornerstone.
 
Katy-follower

Katy-follower

Senior Member
#256
Jun 25, 2011
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#256
notuptome said:
It has for centuries excluded all others who were not water baptized into the Roman catholic church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I agree, but they're very inconsistent. One that came to mind...


(Quotes from their catechism)

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims."The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]


"Outside the (catholic) Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-forumlated positively it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the (catholic) Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the (catholic) Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#257
May 17, 2013
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#257
Katy-follower said:
I agree, but they're very inconsistent. One that came to mind...


(Quotes from their catechism)

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims."The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[330]


"Outside the (catholic) Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-forumlated positively it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the (catholic) Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the (catholic) Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
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It is well known that the church amends its position to accommodate and diffuse criticism especially here in the USA. In reality the Roman catholic church is tossed about with every wind of doctrine and is unstable in all its ways.

When I was but a mere child it was common for the Roman Catholic church to do their masses in Latin. None of the laity knew Latin so they had no idea what was being said and they were taught that they could not know because it was for the priests to know on their behalf.

There is simply no end to the heresy parade that comes from the Roman Catholic church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Katy-follower

Katy-follower

Senior Member
#258
Jun 25, 2011
2,719
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#258
notuptome said:
It is well known that the church amends its position to accommodate and diffuse criticism especially here in the USA. In reality the Roman catholic church is tossed about with every wind of doctrine and is unstable in all its ways.
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I came across at least 42 manmade doctrines and traditions that got introduced gradually over the years, by various popes.

Forever changing :eek:
 
LoveGodForever

LoveGodForever

Banned
#259
Jun 5, 2017
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#259
If you are following Sunday worship in place of God's 4th commandment of the bible. Then you are following your Catholic heritage in place of God's WORD and really following the Chatholic Church as they claim in this short video below.

[video=youtube;CrB21mc2fmI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrB21mc2fmI[/video]

.............

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a Catholic tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
 
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