Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Jimbone

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2014
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I do think that Paul is saying that the Athenians and the Greeks in general were on the right track. I'm not implying in any way that they were close to the finish line!

But the same God that Paul is talking about? I think so, based on what he goes on to say
Acts 17: 28 'For in him we live, and move, and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also his offspring.'

We are the offspring of the true God or the false god?
Acts 17: 29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by art and design of man.

So they were right about some things, God isn't far from anyone, and we are his children. But they were wrong about other things, like God wanting statues made of him.
I kind of understated what you're saying, and your heart for people is so very evident, and praise Jesus name for these gifts, but I still have to disagree, I was just listening to this today already, you have to keep reading.

I see how you see this in Acts 17 24-38

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[a] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

Here I see how you can get "on the right track" from this, but in Acts 17:29-31 he starts completely tearing down there whole idea of "gods" here,


29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Then they are drawn to the truth by hearing Paul proclaiming His word,and through this now they want to know more about this God they were, as Paul puts it, "ignorant of". Now this is a small thing and please know I'm not trying to split hairs or "battle a brother", in any way at all, but "I don't see where he told they, or suggested at all, they were "on the right track". He straight up tells them their gods are worthless. Again I am just trying to share how I see it, and will not keep coming at you with this. I've said my piece and why, and am absolutely wanting to hear yours. regardless of any of this, I nope you and yours are blessed and drawn ever closer to our King minute by minute. Praise Jesus mighty name!!!!!!!! Amen.

One last side note, with God there is no "kinda good", There's lost and the 1 way, so I really disagree there is a "kinda right path" at all anyway.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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But you say God not tell Christian Jesus die on the cross, and tell Muslim Jesus not die in the cross
No, I did not say that. Jesus died on the cross publicly. That's a fact of history.
Muslims deny that, and so they are wrong about history. Muslims also believe that God wrote the Quran. That too is incorrect!
And because catholic teach Muslim worship Christian god, than you say something else
I believe your conclusion does not follow.
If I have to express an opinion, I will agree with Catholics that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Muslims do not worship that God in spirit and in truth, mostly the opposite!

I think it is incorrect to use the logical pattern that you are using, and I'll use Jehovah's witnesses because hopefully that is less emotionally charged for you than Muslims.

Suppose I say
I and Jehovah's Witnesses worship the same God.
And I say that Jesus is God.
And everyone agrees that Jehovah's witnesses say that Jesus is not God.
It does not follow that one of the above statements must be false.

Let's use a different example and see if it's more clear.
Suppose I say
I have a red car.
Then I loan you my car.
While you are driving my car, you say that it is Pink.
Does your statement make the car no longer the same car? Is it no longer my car?

Looking at the same situation from the other direction, it's probably good that we as Christians can worship the true God without being 100% correct about every aspect of who God is. If God demanded that we be absolutely correct, then none of us could be true worshippers!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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No, I did not say that. Jesus died on the cross publicly. That's a fact of history.
Muslims deny that, and so they are wrong about history. Muslims also believe that God wrote the Quran. That too is incorrect!

I believe your conclusion does not follow.
If I have to express an opinion, I will agree with Catholics that Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Muslims do not worship that God in spirit and in truth, mostly the opposite!

I think it is incorrect to use the logical pattern that you are using, and I'll use Jehovah's witnesses because hopefully that is less emotionally charged for you than Muslims.

Suppose I say
I and Jehovah's Witnesses worship the same God.
And I say that Jesus is God.
And everyone agrees that Jehovah's witnesses say that Jesus is not God.
It does not follow that one of the above statements must be false.

Let's use a different example and see if it's more clear.
Suppose I say
I have a red car.
Then I loan you my car.
While you are driving my car, you say that it is Pink.
Does your statement make the car no longer the same car? Is it no longer my car?

Looking at the same situation from the other direction, it's probably good that we as Christians can worship the true God without being 100% correct about every aspect of who God is. If God demanded that we be absolutely correct, then none of us could be true worshippers!
If I say your car is a pink, it's still your ca. But this is only an analogy, can be mislead.

My brother, Doctrine of god is not a car.

Jesus is only way, Jesus die on the cross, Jesus is God

Muslim god tell mohammad, Jesus not god, not die on the cross

How you believe he is also Christian god?

When I was child, my Muslim neighbor say that I am musrik (worship human as god)

Muslim god teach not to worship human jesus.

How true god teach to not worship Jesus?

Quote

AND THE JEWS say, "Ezra is God's son," while the Christians say, "The Christ is God's son." Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth! [44] [They deserve the imprecation:] "May God destroy them!" [45] How perverted are

their minds! [46] - 9:30 (Asad)

End quote

My brother the god that mohammad and his Muslim follower hate Jesus worshiper, convince me he is lucifer.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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You believe Muslim worship true god don't you, than why you believe there are Muslim never heard about god?
I didn't say Muslims had never heard about God, I believe I said that there are probably some Muslims who haven't heard an accurate message about Jesus.

Say there are 3 God but one, so Jesus is part god, Holy Spirit, part of God father part of God

The teaching is one isn't it
No, Jesus isn't part God.
Jesus is God.
The father is God.
The spirit is God.
And there is only one God.
That's the standard doctrine of the trinity, I believe. But it's easy to get tripped up over the words, how to talk about it.

My point is that if someone says there is only one God and he created the heavens and the Earth, that sounds to me like the God that I worship.
If they go on to say that Jesus is not God, then I would just say that they are incorrect about that!

But I understand that other people have other opinions. I certainly wouldn't say that if someone has a different opinion on this matter than I do, that they are therefore not Christians.

Muslim worship god that teach Jesus not die on the cross
Wich true god it that?
There is only one true God. Muslims say some things right about him, and many things wrong!
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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Sudah 112:1-3

Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; (1) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (2) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (3) And there is none like unto Him. (4)
Al-Falaq
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

Allah try to attack Christ and say Allah not begetteth ( don't have child/so ) nor begot
In this Quran verses, Muslim god direct attack bible

John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I don't understand why catholic say that god is the same god as Christian god.

How misleading ccc 841 is.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Being Christian is believing Jesus as god and die on the cross and if one say god that teach Jesus not god and not die on the cross as true god, that is attack Christian faith and no Christian attack Christian faith, and adding the gospel
I think your logic is breaking down where you say
"...if one say god that teach..".
I believe it assumes that the Quran is from God. It is not.
And Muhammad is not God's prophet.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I didn't say Muslims had never heard about God, I believe I said that there are probably some Muslims who haven't heard an accurate message about Jesus.


No, Jesus isn't part God.
Jesus is God.
The father is God.
The spirit is God.
And there is only one God.
That's the standard doctrine of the trinity, I believe. But it's easy to get tripped up over the words, how to talk about it.

My point is that if someone says there is only one God and he created the heavens and the Earth, that sounds to me like the God that I worship.
If they go on to say that Jesus is not God, then I would just say that they are incorrect about that!

But I understand that other people have other opinions. I certainly wouldn't say that if someone has a different opinion on this matter than I do, that they are therefore not Christians.


There is only one true God. Muslims say some things right about him, and many things wrong!
How Muslim learn about their God? From their god send angel gibril to mohammad and tell mohammad Jesus not god.
So their god must be lucifer

Their god t
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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I think your logic is breaking down where you say
"...if one say god that teach..".
I believe it assumes that the Quran is from God. It is not.
And Muhammad is not God's prophet.
But you believe mohammad and other Muslim worship Christian god
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
I think your logic is breaking down where you say
"...if one say god that teach..".
I believe it assumes that the Quran is from God. It is not.
And Muhammad is not God's prophet.
Quran is come from a being that Muslim believe as god, that is why I say Muslim not worship true god
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Sorry for cutting in here but I have an opinion on this:

Israel is at Mount Sinai waiting on Moses to finish his meeting with God. The people start putting pressure on Aaron and he created a golden calf. They named the calf YHVH and some of them start worshipping the calf the rest still worshipped YHVH. God himself said they were busy with idol worshipping.

If some Chinese company take a Ford F100 truck and design a truck that basically look and feel exactly the same (as a Ford F100), is it a Ford F100 or a replica of the original?

There is one God and one religion, Jehovah Witnesses is a sect and idol worshippers based on Christianity, Muslims are a sect and idol worshippers, Roman Catholics, a sect worshipping idols based on Christianity.
Hi GandalfTheWhite,
Thanks for stopping by!
Everyone is welcome to join the conversation!

The funny thing is that in my mind, whether or not Muslims worship the true God is not really the main issue. The main issue is that if someone has a different opinion from myself on this, does it then make them not a Christian? Or should they say that I am not a Christian because I have a different opinion?

If someone takes a Ford F100 truck and then says that it gets 200 miles to the gallon, does that lie make the truck no longer a Ford truck?

To me, it's kind of a boring philosophical question. If you take a Ford truck, and slowly begin replacing parts with Chevy parts, machining them where necessary so that they fit, at what point is it no longer a Ford truck?

An interesting situation here, imo
Acts 15: 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
Here we see some Pharisees that Luke calls believers. Yet, they teach things that the apostles and elders end up saying is wrong. But that doesn't stop them from being believers!

(But lest anyone misunderstand that example, I'm not saying that Muslims are believers, no way!)
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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Your logic is bad brother

Muslim worship god that give them quran
If You believe Muslim worship true god than you must believe Quran is from true god
No, Muslims claim that they worship the God that gave them the Quran. They are incorrect.
I believe the logic is solid.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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It is fact that Muslim worship god that give them Quran.
And it is your opinion Muslim worship Christian god.
I agree that Muslims claim that the Quran came from God, but they are incorrect.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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It is a matter of your opinion

Being Christian is believe bible

And Bible teach true god is jesus that die on the cross

To say true god also teach Jesus not die on the cross is attack Bible and not christian
It is a matter of your opinion

Being Christian is believe bible
No, that would be a Biblian.
A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus is the Christ, hence the name. And, they believe that Jesus died for their sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day!
Many Christians are also Biblians, but the two are not the same.

And Bible teach true god is jesus that die on the cross

To say true god also teach Jesus not die on the cross is attack Bible and not christian
Right, because the true God didn't say that Jesus didn't die on the cross!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
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You not agree Quran from god, don't believe mohammad is prophet

And you agree Muslim mohammad follower and believe Quran from their god

Why you believe Muslim worship true god?
Because Muslims follow false prophets, and believe things that are not true!
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
I kind of understated what you're saying, and your heart for people is so very evident, and praise Jesus name for these gifts, but I still have to disagree, I was just listening to this today already, you have to keep reading.

I see how you see this in Acts 17 24-38

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[a] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

Here I see how you can get "on the right track" from this, but in Acts 17:29-31 he starts completely tearing down there whole idea of "gods" here,


29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Then they are drawn to the truth by hearing Paul proclaiming His word,and through this now they want to know more about this God they were, as Paul puts it, "ignorant of". Now this is a small thing and please know I'm not trying to split hairs or "battle a brother", in any way at all, but "I don't see where he told they, or suggested at all, they were "on the right track". He straight up tells them their gods are worthless. Again I am just trying to share how I see it, and will not keep coming at you with this. I've said my piece and why, and am absolutely wanting to hear yours. regardless of any of this, I nope you and yours are blessed and drawn ever closer to our King minute by minute. Praise Jesus mighty name!!!!!!!! Amen.

One last side note, with God there is no "kinda good", There's lost and the 1 way, so I really disagree there is a "kinda right path" at all anyway.
Hi Jimbone, glad to hear from you again!
I certainly don't see it as "battling Brothers".
I see it more like "as iron sharpens iron…". Are you familiar with that proverb? Sometimes Sparks will fly, but as long as neither "blade" is damaged in the process, it's all good!

Before responding to your post, I want to ask you the question I had asked earlier on this thread:
For people who have never heard of Jesus, do they have the possibility of heaven?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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No, Muslims claim that they worship the God that gave them the Quran. They are incorrect.
I believe the logic is solid.
Muslim chose to worship god that describe in the Quran.
Ask Muslim to chose, worship god in the Bible aka Jesus or Allah in the Quran, than you know they worship Allah in the Quran, Allah that teach them not to worship jesus