Catholicism vs Protestantism

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,363
732
113
I do not believe there is disagreement between Protestants and Catholics for each of these.
  • Sola Fide, by faith alone. - There is disagreement, since Catholics believe in faith and works. No one is disagreeing about the faith part, but on works. Isn't there some support for works, hence why Martin Luther wanted to remove Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelations from the Canon? Why else would Martin Luther want to remove these books?
  • Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone. - Early Christians relied on oral tradition. The earliest Christians most likely only had one Gospel depending on where they were living, rather than all four Gospels (the disciples/apostles were spread out and were living in different locations). The NT was compiled earliest around 200 AD-300 AD. As these Christians did not have Scripture, what did they rely upon? The early (Catholic) church analyzed through a lot of criteria to determine whether the book/letter was inspired by God. First, there were a lot of gnostic books which were weeded out. Other criteria include whether the book was written by an apostle, whether it was accepted by the majority, whether the book/letter had a lot of impact/inspiration on the community/congregation, etc. My point here is that there is a strong dose of tradition in compiling the NT. I have not researched papal decrees, but it seemed that the Catholic Church followed apostolic tradition closely/ tried to protect or expand Christendom in the beginning but later got a bit anti-Semitic so it looks like the Catholic Church sidetracked from even tradition. So, it seems that the Catholic Church went beyond/outside the scope of tradition.
  • Solus Christus, through Christ alone. - Both Protestants and Catholics agree. Catholics pray to the saints because it is written in the Apocrypha. They do not view Mary as God/Messiah.
  • Sola Gratia, by grace alone. - Both Protestants and Catholics agree (although Catholics believe grace comes with faith and works).
  • Soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone. - Both Protestants and Catholics agree.
You say catholic agree with sola scriptura

Than where the teaching of pray to Mary come from, from what scripture
 

bojack

Well-known member
Dec 16, 2019
1,352
583
113
So you are not the least bit deceived? Be careful the hatred you have for Catholics doesn't consume you. You can't call anyone's fate until God is finished with them.
Consumed with hatred ? lol .. I know how to act like a gentleman and a Christian .. I hate what God hates ''abomination'' .. And I think before I'd let one of those forbid to marry priests put a cracker in my mouth with those perverted hands I'd tell him he'd sooner call a priest .. You ?
 
M

Michael29

Guest
Hello Indian Girl. I hope you are open minded and will hear this out. It greatly expand your relationship and depth of the NT and of Jesus:

1. You are 100% on to a good point with Martin Luther. Why was he so keen I ripping out James, Hebrews, Revelations etc? Because in all truth, Martin Luther was Anti-Semitic. James. I’ll break the bible down real quick. The entire “OT” or Tanakh is written to the Israelites, each Gospel is written for the Israelites, Paul, primarily to Non-Jews, James opens with: “To the 12 Tribes of Israel”, Hebrews: That’s self explanatory and Peter: We all know the struggle he had with Non Jews in Acts, Revelation: In short is an “esoteric” book, meaning more Kabblistic like the book of Ezekiel (I.e. this book is especially not meant to be read literally, for it hold a higher love of knowledge that must be decoded). If that’s not enough, then simple read his all time best seller: “On the Jews and their Lies” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies This book is known for Hilters reasoning for hating the Jews and killing over 6 Million in the Holocaust!

2. “Works”: I ask you to carefully, with a fine toothpick, read every word in Acts 15 and you shall see that the “council” or “leaders” of the “Messianic (Hebrew)/Christian (Greek)” community we’re all Jews. Why? Because just as Jesus said and just as you’ll see throughout the entire NT, the Torah and the Laws that’s God requires of the Jews is NOT done away with (as Peter would say, “how would you know what sin is without it”), plus God said “eternal covenant” and “eternal commandments” throughout the lives of the Patriarchs, Mount Sinai and the Prophets, over and over, (but only to Israel, not Non-Jews). For in Acts 15, you don’t have a “debate” or “meeting” on a subject a Pharisee brings up IF the Law is done away with. But as you’ll see, the debate was not for that either, it was to see if Non Jews (a brand new theme in the bible) had to fulfill the Torah and the answer is NO! And in Judaism today and always, Non Jews never had to fulfill the Torah and that’s why Paul across his writings makes it clear that the Torah doesn’t mean anything nor apply to the Non Jews who believed in Jesus but yes Jews still had to keep the “eternal” covenant as I can prove in every chapter of the NT, but that does not negate that Jesus is still a Savour and Cleanser of Sin!

3. Let’s say for some reason, you were able to proof everything wrong that I said and Joshua who says he will study the Torah day and night or David calling the light to his feet or King Solomon saying the purpose of life for a Jew is the wisdom of Torah are all wrong, I want you to think for a second about what it takes to build a human relationship. Could you tell your spouse, “hunny, I love you” and yet whenever your spouse wanted or needed something you said, “hunny I love you but I don’t have to do any work, because... I love you”. How long would such a relationship last? How much deeper does a relationship get however if not only you do these things, but you do them with a pure heart and you know your partner so well, that they don’t even need to ask. How wonderful is that??? How much more then would a great relationship be with avid who asks His children to listen to His commandments! “The purpose of man is to fear God and follow his commandments” (ECC:12:13). Now if you read Acts 15, you’ll also so that the conclusion of their Council (I.e the Messianc Sanhedrin), also gave rules to the Non Jewish believers and where did they come up with the 4 rules (Acts 15:21)? From the 7 Noachide laws that all of mankind aside from Jew is to up hold.

I truly hope this is enlightening for everyone because I love Jesus just as much, but like a wife, I also have to listen and not just believe. “By their fruits you shall know them”!
 

Searcher92

Junior Member
Apr 8, 2014
22
9
3
Catholics only believe in baptism once as a baby, and some Protestants believe in doing it twice to speak for themselves. However, according to the Catholics(not saying it's right or wrong either way), baptism twice is sacrilegious and ineffectual.
 
M

Michael29

Guest
Catholics only believe in baptism once as a baby, and some Protestants believe in doing it twice to speak for themselves. However, according to the Catholics(not saying it's right or wrong either way), baptism twice is sacrilegious and ineffectual.
Hello there! I hope you are doing well with the time we are in and staying quite positive! :)

I see your point and yes considering what we call a “correct” baptism I know where your coming from. But did you ever wonder where the concept of a baptsim comes from? I can trace it all the way to the splitting of the waters in Genesis but I’ll keep it shorter. It stems from the Torah. Commands women who are on their cycle to immerse in water (Mikveh in Hebrew) in one once its over, the Priests had to immerse before serving and many more events. Jews today still use a Mikveh. You can see 2nd Temple Mikvehs all around Jerusalem at the Western Wall. So what is a Mikveh/Immersion/Baptism? It’s a “symbolization” of purity or “rebirth” even in Judaism. A convert completes their conversion with a Mikveh too. So for a believer it’s simply a symbol of purity or even renewing of vows. So can a Christian immerse again? Absolutely! Either if they just want to be in touch with God again, or maybe you want to renew you commitment because you failed like all humans do along the way.

And oh I almost forgot, you can clearly can see that answer whether one must “complete submerge” or “tinkle with sprinkles of water”, it’s is a complete immersion.

Thank you I hope that was insightful! :)
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
6,008
6,416
113
Hello Indian Girl. I hope you are open minded and will hear this out. It greatly expand your relationship and depth of the NT and of Jesus:

1. You are 100% on to a good point with Martin Luther. Why was he so keen I ripping out James, Hebrews, Revelations etc? Because in all truth, Martin Luther was Anti-Semitic. James. I’ll break the bible down real quick. The entire “OT” or Tanakh is written to the Israelites, each Gospel is written for the Israelites, Paul, primarily to Non-Jews, James opens with: “To the 12 Tribes of Israel”, Hebrews: That’s self explanatory and Peter: We all know the struggle he had with Non Jews in Acts, Revelation: In short is an “esoteric” book, meaning more Kabblistic like the book of Ezekiel (I.e. this book is especially not meant to be read literally, for it hold a higher love of knowledge that must be decoded). If that’s not enough, then simple read his all time best seller: “On the Jews and their Lies” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies This book is known for Hilters reasoning for hating the Jews and killing over 6 Million in the Holocaust!

2. “Works”: I ask you to carefully, with a fine toothpick, read every word in Acts 15 and you shall see that the “council” or “leaders” of the “Messianic (Hebrew)/Christian (Greek)” community we’re all Jews. Why? Because just as Jesus said and just as you’ll see throughout the entire NT, the Torah and the Laws that’s God requires of the Jews is NOT done away with (as Peter would say, “how would you know what sin is without it”), plus God said “eternal covenant” and “eternal commandments” throughout the lives of the Patriarchs, Mount Sinai and the Prophets, over and over, (but only to Israel, not Non-Jews). For in Acts 15, you don’t have a “debate” or “meeting” on a subject a Pharisee brings up IF the Law is done away with. But as you’ll see, the debate was not for that either, it was to see if Non Jews (a brand new theme in the bible) had to fulfill the Torah and the answer is NO! And in Judaism today and always, Non Jews never had to fulfill the Torah and that’s why Paul across his writings makes it clear that the Torah doesn’t mean anything nor apply to the Non Jews who believed in Jesus but yes Jews still had to keep the “eternal” covenant as I can prove in every chapter of the NT, but that does not negate that Jesus is still a Savour and Cleanser of Sin!

3. Let’s say for some reason, you were able to proof everything wrong that I said and Joshua who says he will study the Torah day and night or David calling the light to his feet or King Solomon saying the purpose of life for a Jew is the wisdom of Torah are all wrong, I want you to think for a second about what it takes to build a human relationship. Could you tell your spouse, “hunny, I love you” and yet whenever your spouse wanted or needed something you said, “hunny I love you but I don’t have to do any work, because... I love you”. How long would such a relationship last? How much deeper does a relationship get however if not only you do these things, but you do them with a pure heart and you know your partner so well, that they don’t even need to ask. How wonderful is that??? How much more then would a great relationship be with avid who asks His children to listen to His commandments! “The purpose of man is to fear God and follow his commandments” (ECC:12:13). Now if you read Acts 15, you’ll also so that the conclusion of their Council (I.e the Messianc Sanhedrin), also gave rules to the Non Jewish believers and where did they come up with the 4 rules (Acts 15:21)? From the 7 Noachide laws that all of mankind aside from Jew is to up hold.

I truly hope this is enlightening for everyone because I love Jesus just as much, but like a wife, I also have to listen and not just believe. “By their fruits you shall know them”!
Luther did not understand the book of James just like today so many think he contradicts Paul he does not.

Works have no role whatsoever in salvation

The Catholic Church preaches a false Gospel...actually it preaches no Gospel

And criticizing their rhetoric and their canon has nothing to do whatsoever with how one regards the parishioners and the clergy as individuals.

And beyond that the "institution" has been the author of much evil in this world ...it does not take much to do the research.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
1,410
113
has anyone here forgotten praying to Mary and dead saints? has everyone forgotten about bowing down to statues, having priest work between you and Jesus? re-sacrificing Christ in every mass, being the leader in the ecumenical movement, not allowing priests to marry, extra biblical rules and regulations put on people such as fast times and occultic imagery and so many things.
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
2,440
2,688
113
58
has anyone here forgotten praying to Mary and dead saints? has everyone forgotten about bowing down to statues, having priest work between you and Jesus? re-sacrificing Christ in every mass, being the leader in the ecumenical movement, not allowing priests to marry, extra biblical rules and regulations put on people such as fast times and occultic imagery and so many things.
They also believe Mary remained a virgin all her life...
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
1,863
1,410
113
They also believe Mary remained a virgin all her life...
thats so hilariious because bible says Jesus had brothers lolz. its one thing not to know systematic theology, its another thing to be completely oblivious to what bible says. i believe catholics dotn know anything about what the bible teaches and its sad. maybe their clergy dont encourage them to read?
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
6,008
6,416
113
Hello Indian Girl. I hope you are open minded and will hear this out. It greatly expand your relationship and depth of the NT and of Jesus:

1. You are 100% on to a good point with Martin Luther. Why was he so keen I ripping out James, Hebrews, Revelations etc? Because in all truth, Martin Luther was Anti-Semitic. James. I’ll break the bible down real quick. The entire “OT” or Tanakh is written to the Israelites, each Gospel is written for the Israelites, Paul, primarily to Non-Jews, James opens with: “To the 12 Tribes of Israel”, Hebrews: That’s self explanatory and Peter: We all know the struggle he had with Non Jews in Acts, Revelation: In short is an “esoteric” book, meaning more Kabblistic like the book of Ezekiel (I.e. this book is especially not meant to be read literally, for it hold a higher love of knowledge that must be decoded). If that’s not enough, then simple read his all time best seller: “On the Jews and their Lies” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies This book is known for Hilters reasoning for hating the Jews and killing over 6 Million in the Holocaust!

2. “Works”: I ask you to carefully, with a fine toothpick, read every word in Acts 15 and you shall see that the “council” or “leaders” of the “Messianic (Hebrew)/Christian (Greek)” community we’re all Jews. Why? Because just as Jesus said and just as you’ll see throughout the entire NT, the Torah and the Laws that’s God requires of the Jews is NOT done away with (as Peter would say, “how would you know what sin is without it”), plus God said “eternal covenant” and “eternal commandments” throughout the lives of the Patriarchs, Mount Sinai and the Prophets, over and over, (but only to Israel, not Non-Jews). For in Acts 15, you don’t have a “debate” or “meeting” on a subject a Pharisee brings up IF the Law is done away with. But as you’ll see, the debate was not for that either, it was to see if Non Jews (a brand new theme in the bible) had to fulfill the Torah and the answer is NO! And in Judaism today and always, Non Jews never had to fulfill the Torah and that’s why Paul across his writings makes it clear that the Torah doesn’t mean anything nor apply to the Non Jews who believed in Jesus but yes Jews still had to keep the “eternal” covenant as I can prove in every chapter of the NT, but that does not negate that Jesus is still a Savour and Cleanser of Sin!

3. Let’s say for some reason, you were able to proof everything wrong that I said and Joshua who says he will study the Torah day and night or David calling the light to his feet or King Solomon saying the purpose of life for a Jew is the wisdom of Torah are all wrong, I want you to think for a second about what it takes to build a human relationship. Could you tell your spouse, “hunny, I love you” and yet whenever your spouse wanted or needed something you said, “hunny I love you but I don’t have to do any work, because... I love you”. How long would such a relationship last? How much deeper does a relationship get however if not only you do these things, but you do them with a pure heart and you know your partner so well, that they don’t even need to ask. How wonderful is that??? How much more then would a great relationship be with avid who asks His children to listen to His commandments! “The purpose of man is to fear God and follow his commandments” (ECC:12:13). Now if you read Acts 15, you’ll also so that the conclusion of their Council (I.e the Messianc Sanhedrin), also gave rules to the Non Jewish believers and where did they come up with the 4 rules (Acts 15:21)? From the 7 Noachide laws that all of mankind aside from Jew is to up hold.

I truly hope this is enlightening for everyone because I love Jesus just as much, but like a wife, I also have to listen and not just believe. “By their fruits you shall know them”!
Scripture is clear...

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28

Christ fulfilled and ended the Old Testament Regime

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18)

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,739
1,669
113
Texas
Scripture is clear...

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:28

Christ fulfilled and ended the Old Testament Regime

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished.” (Matthew 5:17–18)

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)
Seems so easy to understand...

"Until all is accomplished";...

"It is finished"...
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,091
1,329
113
I do not believe there is disagreement between Protestants and Catholics for each of these.
  • Sola Fide, by faith alone. - There is disagreement, since Catholics believe in faith and works. No one is disagreeing about the faith part, but on works. Isn't there some support for works, hence why Martin Luther wanted to remove Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelations from the Canon? Why else would Martin Luther want to remove these books?
  • Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone. - Early Christians relied on oral tradition. The earliest Christians most likely only had one Gospel depending on where they were living, rather than all four Gospels (the disciples/apostles were spread out and were living in different locations). The NT was compiled earliest around 200 AD-300 AD. As these Christians did not have Scripture, what did they rely upon? The early (Catholic) church analyzed through a lot of criteria to determine whether the book/letter was inspired by God. First, there were a lot of gnostic books which were weeded out. Other criteria include whether the book was written by an apostle, whether it was accepted by the majority, whether the book/letter had a lot of impact/inspiration on the community/congregation, etc. My point here is that there is a strong dose of tradition in compiling the NT. I have not researched papal decrees, but it seemed that the Catholic Church followed apostolic tradition closely/ tried to protect or expand Christendom in the beginning but later got a bit anti-Semitic so it looks like the Catholic Church sidetracked from even tradition. So, it seems that the Catholic Church went beyond/outside the scope of tradition.
  • Solus Christus, through Christ alone. - Both Protestants and Catholics agree. Catholics pray to the saints because it is written in the Apocrypha. They do not view Mary as God/Messiah.
  • Sola Gratia, by grace alone. - Both Protestants and Catholics agree (although Catholics believe grace comes with faith and works).
  • Soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone. - Both Protestants and Catholics agree.
Sola scriptural which is the one teaching source that Catholicism must be made to no effect. They refuse to Honor our Holy Father in heaven replacing him with fathers on earth called a law of the fathers, as things of corruptible men

Sola scriptural the sword of the Spirit as it is written reformed the church in the 1st century reformation as well as the 15th . .Every reformation depends that called by scripture believing all things written in the law and prophets. Without any oral traditions a laws of the fathers.

Sola scriptura make the law of the fathers as oral traditions of corrupted mankind without effect. There simply is no way a person could serve two teaching masters. God law as it is write .And the law of the fathers as it is written in their books .The two books do not compare. Not even close.

Sola scriptura, the sword of the Spirit is also defined as the tool used of God defend and mock those with stammering (mocking) lips that mocked it

Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: Isaiah 28:9-10
 

garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
14,091
1,329
113
So catholic believe different gospel and not Christian
Yes. They have a different written law that they must follow .called a law of the fathers. its goal is to make the law of our father written in his book of the law without effect.

No man can serve two written teaching Masters as a law not subject to change.

As it is written by the finger of God is the one source of Christian faith . Not the law of the fathers inspired by corrupted mankind. . earthly of the devil .

James 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
has anyone here forgotten praying to Mary and dead saints? has everyone forgotten about bowing down to statues, having priest work between you and Jesus? re-sacrificing Christ in every mass, being the leader in the ecumenical movement, not allowing priests to marry, extra biblical rules and regulations put on people such as fast times and occultic imagery and so many things.

nope

in the last disastrous thread, they were all brought up and discussed

but an op title such as this thread has, is basically an invitation to beat on the other side

which is what is going on

who makes a title like that?

smh