Charismatics ?

[Grace777x70]

.you will have to show me that "scripture " that says they thought they were drunk because they spoke different languages...

.....but on pondering it...I hear people speaking in many languages all the time and they don't look nor act like they are drunk......"these are not drunk as you suppose"..they acted like they were drunk....speaking languages at 9:00 in the morning is not thinking people are drunk....nice try tho...

Nope they didn't look or act drunk. The scripture says that the observers thought they were drunk because they were speaking in many languages. Thus His order is maintained

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

.you will have to show me that "scripture " that says they thought they were drunk because they spoke different languages...

.....but on pondering it...I hear people speaking in many languages all the time and they don't look nor act like they are drunk......"these are not drunk as you suppose"..they acted like they were drunk....speaking languages at 9:00 in the morning is not thinking people are drunk....nice try tho...

Ok here we go. Let's look at what scripture says.

Acts 2:1-4 NKJV
When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord[a]in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

So as we see here, the primary thing exhibited is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, a fulfillment of the Feast of Pentecost. Specifically, one type of manifestation of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is speaking in other tongues and shown here.

Acts 2:5-13 NKJV
5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language.7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, “Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.” 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”
13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.”

So based on what the scripture said, the reason why they were amazed was that they could hear the disciples speaking in their own tongues or languages, the wonderful works of God. What could this miracle mean that they were speaking in many languages? Well mocking individual inferred that because they were speaking in other tongues/languages, that they were full of new wine, ie, drunk. The direct causation of this belief that they were drunk was that they were speaking in other tongues/languages.

Acts 2:14-15 NKJV
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, raised his voice and said to them, “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and heed my words. 15 For these are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is onlythe third hour of the day.

Peter here assures the mockers that these individuals were not drunk. The fact that it is the third hour of the day was support as to the fact that their speaking in tongues was not evidence of them being drunk. After verse 15, it then goes into the prophesy spoken by Joel regarding the Spirit being poured out on all flesh and miraculous wonders being performed including:
1) Sons and daughters prophesying
2) Young men seeing visions
3) Menservants and maidservants likewise prophesying
4) Wonders shown on the earth and in heaven (prophetic regarding the end times)

a) Blood and fire and vapor of smoke
b) Sun turned into darkness; moon into blood​

So based on what scripture tells us, this manifestation of the Spirit (one kind of gift) of speaking in tongues was the primary and direct reason for the onlookers to mock and assume they were filled with new wine and drunk. Peter clarifies that the pouring out of the Spirit was not drunkenness due to the fact that it is the 3rd hour of the day and the prophesy of Joel. NOWHERE does it say that the people who were speaking in other tongues/languages and praising the wonderful works of God were in fact acting like drunkards. However, it does say that because they were speaking in other tongues, people assumed they were drunk.

 

[Grace777x70]

Despite what the commentary says about it. Just because someone speaks in a language does not mean they were acting drunk in the minds of people. I know the commentary "thinks" that but to me.....how could the fact that someone spoke in a language be mis-construed as being drunk?...it doesn't ring true or plausible ....I speak in tongues all the time and never once has someone said..you are drunk...lol...well..not yet anyways......altho I know the one making the commentary has his own opinion...but that is ok....it's all cool....

 

[Willie-T]

Despite what the commentary says about it. Just because someone speaks in a language does not mean they were acting drunk in the minds of people. I know the commentary "thinks" that but to me.....how could the fact that someone spoke in a language be mis-construed as being drunk?...it doesn't ring true or plausible ....I speak in tongues all the time and never once has someone said..you are drunk...lol...well..not yet anyways......altho I know the one making the commentary has his own opinion...but that is ok....it's all cool....

Totally agree. How many times have any of us ever told someone they were drunk because they were clearly speaking an intelligible foreign language? To even dream up that kind of thing is just grasping at straws to support a prejudice.

 

[Willie-T]

Nope they didn't look or act drunk. The scripture says that the observers thought they were drunk because they were speaking in many languages. Thus His order is maintained

Well, of course! Didn't you start speaking clear French or Spanish whenever you used to get drunk? Oh, everyone does..... that's how you can tell they are drunk.

Most people can't even speak their OWN native language when they are drunk!

 

[Grace777x70]

And if I knew you were from another country and couldn't speak my language ...and then you did start to speak it... I would think.. hey.. where did ya learn that from...Rosetta Stone??...I would think you "got smart" all of a sudden...not drunk...

Totally agree. How many times have any of us ever told someone they were drunk because they were clearly speaking an intelligible foreign language? To even dream up that kind of thing is just grasping at straws to support a prejudice.

 

[Mitspa]

If some of you don't have the Holy Spirit? And have not been moved by The Power of God....I suggest you seek God and find the true faith. This idea that the Holy Spirit has changed is a satanic and evil.

 

[Grace777x70]

LOL..that made me laugh.....there was obviously something else going on that was different then just someone praising God by speaking in a language unknown to them to make them seem like they were drunk.........just not plausible...

Well, of course! Didn't you start speaking clear French or Spanish whenever you used to get drunk? Oh, everyone does..... that's how you can tell they are drunk.

Most people can't even speak their OWN native language when they are drunk!

 

[notuptome]

So at Pentecost was the miracle in the ears of the hearers or in the lips of the speakers? How does this line up with the modern practices?

Mockers in religion are not unusual and an event like this would be very unusual so a natural explanation would be the unusual effects of new wine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

This idea that the Holy Spirit has changed is a satanic and evil.

Quite true. Now define and contrast modern practices and demonstrate how they align with Pentecost and the apostolic church.

The Holy Spirit and Gods word have not changed but men have most certainly degenerated toward complete acceptance of the delusion and lie promised in the end times. A time when even Lucifer will appear as an angel of light. Seducing many and causing them to err from the truth Who is Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Willie-T]

So at Pentecost was the miracle in the ears of the hearers or in the lips of the speakers? How does this line up with the modern practices?

Mockers in religion are not unusual and an event like this would be very unusual so a natural explanation would be the unusual effects of new wine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Both. (Are healing miracles in the speaker, in the receiver, or in God providing both?)

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

Despite what the commentary says about it. Just because someone speaks in a language does not mean they were acting drunk in the minds of people. I know the commentary "thinks" that but to me.....how could the fact that someone spoke in a language be mis-construed as being drunk?...it doesn't ring true or plausible ....I speak in tongues all the time and never once has someone said..you are drunk...lol...well..not yet anyways......altho I know the one making the commentary has his own opinion...but that is ok....it's all cool....

What commentary? Mine? I posted scripture and then my commentary.
If you can clearly see that scripture states they were "acting" drunk then by all means. But please, if it does not, let's not add to what the scripture says. It clearly states that because they were speaking in many tongues/languages and praising God, the people who heard them were amazed.

It also clearly states that mockers came in and postulated that because of this miracle of people speaking in tongues/languages, they made a statement about them being filled with new wine. I'm not going to add additional things to what scripture says. If they were acting drunk, then God would have stated it as such. Because there is no statement that they were acting drunk, and the only information we have states that they were speaking in tongues prompting the mockers to say they were drunk, we cannot make the assumption that they were acting drunk.

Now if the "commentary" you were speaking of was not what I stated after the scripture, then I apologize because that is the only context that was given. If it is, then i'm sorry, but nice try.

 

[Grace777x70]

okie dokie.....

 

[Willie-T]

What commentary? Mine? I posted scripture and then my commentary.
If you can clearly see that scripture states they were "acting" drunk then by all means. But please, if it does not, let's not add to what the scripture says. It clearly states that because they were speaking in many tongues/languages and praising God, the people who heard them were amazed.

It also clearly states that mockers came in and postulated that because of this miracle of people speaking in tongues/languages, they made a statement about them being filled with new wine. I'm not going to add additional things to what scripture says. If they were acting drunk, then God would have stated it as such. Because there is no statement that they were acting drunk, and the only information we have states that they were speaking in tongues prompting the mockers to say they were drunk, we cannot make the assumption that they were acting drunk.

Now if the "commentary" you were speaking of was not what I stated after the scripture, then I apologize because that is the only context that was given. If it is, then i'm sorry, but nice try.

Uh..... I don't think 777 ever said they were "acting" drunk. I think what he meant was that the sounds coming out of their mouths sounded like drunk babbling, NOT coherent foreign languages.

 

[Grace777x70]

....my personal view is ..I think the men watching ... the 120 come out of the upper room must have been doing something to make the men watching them say " They are full of sweet wine"...because it made Peter say.." These are not drunk as you suppose..."...people just speaking in languages do not look like they are drunk..in my opinion.....it's a simple thing to see people speaking....but something must have been happening to make them stand out in their minds as...." Being drunk".......

Uh..... I don't think 777 ever said they were "acting" drunk. I think what he meant was that the sounds coming out of their mouths sounded like drunk babbling, NOT coherent foreign languages.

 

[Willie-T]

....my personal view is ..I think the men watching ... the 120 come out of the upper room must have been doing something to make the men watching them say " They are full of sweet wine"...because it made Peter say.." These are not drunk as you suppose..."...people just speaking in languages do not look like they are drunk..in my opinion.....it's a simple thing to see people speaking....but something must have been happening to make them stand out in their minds as...." Being drunk".......

OK, I stand corrected. I do think it really was only because the sounds from them probably sounded much like what we hear today.... except to those The Holy Spirit had "hear" their own native languages in all that "gibberish."

 

[Angela53510]

@ wincam, aka the OP.

It would be most helpful if you could actually post the link. You can even post a link on a phone! The reason is so we can all watch the same video, instead of picking different ones which are offered.

Not that it seems to be a problem. The thread is moving along quite nicely without you!

I do believe there are occasions, like the Day of Pentecost and in the book of Acts where people were given to speak in other recognized languages, or the hearers heard it in the own language. Whichever happened it was a miracle from the Lord to bring people to Christ.

I believe in this day and age, God still gives actual languages to people who hear and get saved. I have told this story before, but there are many new people here.

We had a friend who was a charismatic and an evangelist. (I am neither!). He was speaking at a banquet, and God gave him 4 words in another language. Nothing more. At the end of the banquet, a man ran up to him with a napkin in his hand. He asked the evangelist why he hadn't said he was Armenian. The speaker said he was not. So the man showed him the napkin which said, "Jesus Christ is Lord" in Armenian.

The man got saved that night, and the evangelist made more trips to see the man and his family. In the end, the man at the banquet, and 27 members of his family were saved. Now THAT is speaking in tongues. Just like the day of Pentecost.

PS I saw the actual napkin, and looked at the 4 words. I coudn't read it, but I guess it only matters that the Armenian man did, and he and his family were saved.

 

[Willie-T]

@ wincam, aka the OP.

It would be most helpful if you could actually post the link. You can even post a link on a phone! The reason is so we can all watch the same video, instead of picking different ones which are offered.

Not that it seems to be a problem. The thread is moving along quite nicely without you!

I do believe there are occasions, like the Day of Pentecost and in the book of Acts where people were given to speak in other recognized languages, or the hearers heard it in the own language. Whichever happened it was a miracle from the Lord to bring people to Christ.

I believe in this day and age, God still gives actual languages to people who hear and get saved. I have told this story before, but there are many new people here.

We had a friend who was a charismatic and an evangelist. (I am neither!). He was speaking at a banquet, and God gave him 4 words in another language. Nothing more. At the end of the banquet, a man ran up to him with a napkin in his hand. He asked the evangelist why he hadn't said he was Armenian. The speaker said he was not. So the man showed him the napkin which said, "Jesus Christ is Lord" in Armenian.

The man got saved that night, and the evangelist made more trips to see the man and his family. In the end, the man at the banquet, and 27 members of his family were saved. Now THAT is speaking in tongues. Just like the day of Pentecost.

PS I saw the actual napkin, and looked at the 4 words. I coudn't read it, but I guess it only matters that the Armenian man did, and he and his family were saved.

It would be interesting to actually hear that speech to see if the words spoken were the same words "heard." May have been... maybe not. Again, if they were just four words given the speaker, they probably were that actual language.

 

[Stephen63]

....my personal view is ..I think the men watching ... the 120 come out of the upper room must have been doing something to make the men watching them say " They are full of sweet wine"...because it made Peter say.." These are not drunk as you suppose..."...people just speaking in languages do not look like they are drunk..in my opinion.....it's a simple thing to see people speaking....but something must have been happening to make them stand out in their minds as...." Being drunk".......

I certainly hope you're not implying they were "drunk in the Spirit". Please tell me I'm wrong so I'll feel better about it.

 

[Euphemia]

....my personal view is ..I think the men watching ... the 120 come out of the upper room must have been doing something to make the men watching them say " They are full of sweet wine"...because it made Peter say.." These are not drunk as you suppose..."...people just speaking in languages do not look like they are drunk..in my opinion.....it's a simple thing to see people speaking....but something must have been happening to make them stand out in their minds as...." Being drunk".......

That's right. When people are overcome with the weight of the Holy Spirit's fire on them, they will appear in various ways. sometimes it does knock people off their feet. Sometimes people stagger. Added to this the amazing encounter of people speaking in other languages and understood by the hearers, speaking of truth that causes people to stop and take note is enough to make them think they are drunken. Quite a spectacle!


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