Christian enemies, like the Jews and also Catholics...

[secularhermit]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.




Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Do you see water baptism written in any of these verses that guarantee eternal life?

I could put many more verses on this list.
I say again, if what is written are only half truths, or need help from other verses to make this the whole council of God, then these verses are as good as a lie. Even the devil does that.
Truth is, each verse is true, as is.
So again, to say that water baptism is a necessary prerequisite for salvation, is false. Neither is repentance from one's dead works necessary for salvation. Salvation is through faith only, in God, the word of God, which declares Jesus' work on the cross, or even as many as believe on the name of Jesus.
I would however, add one note here to the word, 'believe'. It is not passive, but active. For even the demons believe and tremble.

Oh! Excuse me! I said YES to this you actually said: "Water baptism is not necessary for salvation..." That´s why I used the repented thief...

Excuse me for being misunderstood but, actual salvation will be seen whe HE COMES and picks His chosen ones, baptized or not.

 

[secularhermit]

***
Remember the Isaiah False Prophet rule: They always say the opposite to the True Prophet. (Jesus and the Apostles)

See how easy it is for the children of heretics to contradict Jesus...

CONFUSION reigns... due to disobedience and no Spirit...

I left church long ago...

I also left denominational churches, long ago, but I assemble where two or three are willing to seek GOD´s and not man-made doctrines or interpretations.

 

[secularhermit]

I´m used to hear: You´ll be lost and "the bible says you have to go one church" (like Shaul Paul quotes).

I believed in God, I believed in Jesus, the rest is man-made tradition.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I also left denominational churches, long ago, but I assemble where two or three are willing to seek GOD´s and not man-made doctrines or interpretations.

I also left denominational churches, and have my own little group. I do not believe baptism is necessary for salvation, because salvation is a free gift. However when the scriptures say that you have to believe in Jesus for salvation. Then my feeling is like I said before to believe in Jesus means to believe in what He said. And in the scriptures He says you must repent, forgive others, and be baptized in His name as well as many other things.

 

[secularhermit]

How do we discredit Peter when we recognize him as the leader of the early church. We recognize baptism as a necessity for salvation. Your accusing us of falsehoods.

Soon after Jesus was gone, surprisely I see James ruling the church in ACTS and, quickly, Shaul Paul ruling or opposing Barnabas, the ONE who brught him to the 11 apostles, so Will you mind checking Peter was "sent" from the church you said "he was leading" and, it is remarkable that, even a newcomer (Shaul Paul) rebuked Peter for "his hypocrisy"... Very rare that A DISCIPLE OF JESUS wnadered, so soon, from the FAITH he got from JESUS for 3, 5 years.

Will you ACT differently (hypocritically) if you meet Christian people another place than your state or country?

If you, being a simpe man like me, behave another way in front of your breathen and, quite differently when you are in the intimacy of your family or close friends, something is going wrong on your beliefs... I doubt, by logic, Peter was rebuked that way and, I do believe Paul separated from Barbanas because of John Mark... How long? some time I don´t know, but I believe Jesus and HIs earthly coherence (with His former team of 12).

 

[kennethcadwell]

Peter started the catholic church. The reason that Paul rebuked his breathen is because they tried to force the old traditions on new converts, and Paul was sent by our Lord to teach the way Jesus meant for it to be taught. There was changes that Jesus made to the way we are to walk, and he did away with the old traditions. That does not mean the laws don't still stand, but they are different now that we are under grace.

 

[know1]

know1 I see where you are going with this, but I have a question for you. What does it mean to believe in Jesus to you? Because to me when the scriptures say to believe that also means if you believe in Him then you will do as He says needs to be done, and Jesus says you must repent, forgive others, and be baptized in His name.

Some years back I had kidney stones on my left side, twice, a couple years apart. Each occurrence lasted for many hours. They were very painful.
About four years ago, it happened again, only it was on the other side. When that one happened, I bound the thing and commanded it to go in the name of Jesus, and within five minutes or less, all pain was completely gone, and I haven't had any problems since.
That is what the bible means when is says to believe on or in the name of Jesus.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.




If Abraham was justified before God and it was accounted to him for righteousness, because he believed God without repentance, then why do we have to repent? Has anything change to attain righteousness, other than trusting in Christ? So what is the purpose of repentance if I can attain righteousness without it, as Abraham did? The same applies to us today. Neither repentance nor baptism is a requirement for salvation.
How did John the Baptist pave the way for Jesus?

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Though you may be a child of God, when you repent of your sins and confess them before God, then they are remitted and you are forgiven by God. Now God is free to heal and deliver you of anything you put your faith to, because you are forgiven of that sin, which might have been the cause of that sickness. John got people to repent of their sins so they may be healed and delivered by Jesus. That is how he made straight the way of the Lord.
When a child of God sins, they do not lose their salvation, and yet they are not automatically forgiven of the sins they have committed. Hence, the purpose of repentance and confession of that sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
If our sins are automatically forgiven, then why confess them. Notice the forgiveness, then cleansing. When cleansed, we are free to claim -
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Part of the curse of the law of sin, is sickness.

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
The man's sin cause his condition.


Mar 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
When you are forgiven, you can be healed.

 

[know1]

Oh! Excuse me! I said YES to this you actually said: "Water baptism is not necessary for salvation..." That´s why I used the repented thief...

Excuse me for being misunderstood but, actual salvation will be seen whe HE COMES and picks His chosen ones, baptized or not.

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying here, but don't misunderstand me. I have no way to inflect a certain attitude in my words. I'm not angry, I just make statements. If I have misunderstood your statements, then I apologize for the error.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Abraham was before God manifested as Jesus in the flesh, and repentance was not taught back then. Sacrifice was. Jesus says we are to repent, and like I said to believe in one is also to believe what they say.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

This is part of a chapter that shows that if you continue to sin and do not repent of those sins then as it shows on further if you read it that one who was sanctified or saved can now face the same judgment of fire in the pit. For it shows that if you continue to sin with out regard to what our Lord has said then you disgrace the Holy Spirit.

 

[know1]

Abraham was before God manifested as Jesus in the flesh, and repentance was not taught back then. Sacrifice was. Jesus says we are to repent, and like I said to believe in one is also to believe what they say.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

So if I follow or do what Romans 10:9-10 says, without repenting of my dead works, I still will not be saved?
Are you telling me that it is incomplete? It says if I do thus and thus, I shall be saved. That's not true?

 

[know1]

Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

This is part of a chapter that shows that if you continue to sin and do not repent of those sins then as it shows on further if you read it that one who was sanctified or saved can now face the same judgment of fire in the pit. For it shows that if you continue to sin with out regard to what our Lord has said then you disgrace the Holy Spirit.

I agree that one can lose their salvation if they meet certain biblical criteria with unrepented sin. But Hebrews is written to them that are already saved, telling them they need to repent of their evil works, not to the lost. These verses have nothing to do with attaining salvation through repentance.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The part that people are falsely taught though is once saved always saved. But there are many scriptures that say you can fall away. Plus others that say faith without works is dead. How can you say you have faith if the works do not follow. You write off what Jesus said. His death on the cross was so that we can have the gift of salvation, but he said that we must believe in Him and repent of our sins. These are Jesus words, not mine. He said we are to do this, why do you question his words?

 

[kennethcadwell]

I agree that one can lose their salvation if they meet certain biblical criteria with unrepented sin. But Hebrews is written to them that are already saved, telling them they need to repent of their evil works, not to the lost. These verses have nothing to do with attaining salvation through repentance.

Look at what you just said, " one can lose their salvation....with unrepented sin." Exactly what I have been saying, and you just reiterated it. If you do not repent of your sin you can lose your salvation, so yes then that would make it a requirement to have salvation.

 

[newlight]

Water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but faith in Jesus and believing God raised Him from the dead is.

As per the Isaiah rule:
"False Priphets conrtadict Christ and the Apostles."

Evaluate yourself...

Keep well...

 

[newlight]

Christian enemies, like the Jews and also Catholics...are:

1) Attempting to discredit the anointed Paul and his Epistles. (Jews)

2) Erase baptism as not needed. (Catholics, Jews, Messianics, assorted False Preachers and their flock)

3) Discredit Peter's Ministry and baptism as failed. (Catholics)

NOTE: (A) All Epistles were written to anointed people who were already correctly baptized calling on Jesus, the Savior.
(B) The N.T. Scriptures are the Scriptures of "the Remnant of Israel", the True, Spiritual people of GOD.
(C) Christians >> roots are the persecuted and killed Prophets of Israel
and the persecuted Apostles, not Hebrew or Jewish, who did the killing

***
The dear children of GOD grasp every word of the Doctrine,
knowing that GOD has remembered them, and that his benevolence has come to them.

The darkened have their own ideas...

 

[know1]

The part that people are falsely taught though is once saved always saved. But there are many scriptures that say you can fall away. Plus others that say faith without works is dead. How can you say you have faith if the works do not follow. You write off what Jesus said. His death on the cross was so that we can have the gift of salvation, but he said that we must believe in Him and repent of our sins. These are Jesus words, not mine. He said we are to do this, why do you question his words?

Where? Please show me some scripture verses where Jesus said you must repent of your dead works and believe, that you might be saved.

Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Is this one of the verses you are talking about?
Repent means to turn or change the direction or way in which one is going or doing something, and if the subject is about believing the gospel, then the repenting Jesus is talking about, I would think, involves turning from doubt or unbelief of the gospel to having faith.

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.


I agree that it is possible for a child of God to lose their salvation, but not a baby Christian.

 

[know1]

Look at what you just said, " one can lose their salvation....with unrepented sin." Exactly what I have been saying, and you just reiterated it. If you do not repent of your sin you can lose your salvation, so yes then that would make it a requirement to have salvation.

Sir, there is a difference between one who is already saved and one who isn't.
It is the Spirit of Christ in us that causes us to repent. An unbeliever has the spirit of the devil in them. A person will take on the characteristics of the spirit that abides within them. They will eventually think and act like that spirit. That is why there is a change in the personality, language, and character of a person, when they come to Christ. One is not required to clean up his act before receiving Christ, but after. Then he will have the Spirit of God within him to reveal and convict him of all sin. The sinner or unbeliever will not know this until after they come to Christ.
When a person first receives Christ in their heart, they are clean, but after a while, if they don't walk uprightly, according to the word of God, they will need to repent of and confess their sin(s) in order for them to be clean again.

Pro 23:7 For as he (the man) thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit [will be] good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit [will be] corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.



Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
Joh 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
Joh 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Joh 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

As the spirit is, so is the person.
If you read verse after verse in the new testament on how to be saved and do not see anything about repenting from dead works, then why are you trying to tell me that Jesus said different. We all know that God will not contradict Himself.
I say again, if these statements written are only half or partial truths, in particular, the Pauline epistles, then how can we trust the rest of scripture when we use just one verse to argue a point, because it will only be part of a whole truth. They are either true, as is, or it is a lie, being just part of a truth.

Are you aware that anything that is not done in faith, is sin? The sinner doesn't know this, and neither to many Christian. Most Christians, I have found, don't even know what faith is. So how can they even walk in it?

 

[know1]

As per the Isaiah rule:
"False Priphets conrtadict Christ and the Apostles."

Evaluate yourself...

Keep well...

Scripture please. Use scripture to argue your point, sir. Without bible verses, your words are empty and hold no weight. To me, it's just babble. It means nothing.

 

[RedTent]

The enemies know that they are enemies only the children do not know.
The children must be enlightened...

This is not only senseless, it is denying scripture. The entire book of Romans is written to tell us about a Godly relationship to the Jews, and who they are. I suggest you read it. As you read listen to the Holy Spirit, the spirit you are speaking with is from something else. Pray!! Put on Christ!!