Christmas tree -- vestige from Babylonian worship

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ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#41
No, that is a Biblical response. What you did is twist what Jer 10 says into modern day Christmas trees. Tell me, where did the lights and the garland for the tree come from? The local Wal- market?? Jer 10 is not talking about a Christmas tree. No one even knew what it was back then.
Do not learn the ways of the nations

Seems like that would apply to adopting pagan practices in our worship at any time, not just during the time of Jeremiah.

3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.


So yes, they cut down an evergreen tree, put it into a stand in the house and adorned it with silver and gold just like we do, but it is completely different. What they did was condemned by Jeremiah but that doesn't mean that God would condemn us. OK.

5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm

nor can they do any good.”

So Jeremiah says this tree decked in silver and gold was an idol but your Christmas tree decked in silver and gold isn't?

Do not fear them they can do no harm nor can they do any good. Yes, they sell this pathetic story that worshipping their little pagan practices will somehow give you the Christmas spirit. Really, I find the spirit at this time of year to be horrible.

8 They are all senseless and foolish;
they are taught by worthless wooden idols.
9 Hammered silver is brought from Tarshish
and gold from Uphaz.
What the craftsman and goldsmith have made
is then dressed in blue and purple—

all made by skilled workers.

Craftsmen? Like the ones who make all these ornaments that people hang on their trees. Don't worry, the Israelites were judged very seriously for adopting the pagan practices of the nations but this is just one more verse you can erase from your Bible. Yes Paul said the things which happened to them were done as an example for our sakes, but you have decided that this example does not apply to you.

11 “Tell them this: ‘These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.’”

This Christmas tree has nothing to do with the incarnation of God into man.

14 Everyone is senseless and without knowledge;
every goldsmith is shamed by his idols.
The images he makes are a fraud;
they have no breath in them.
15 They are worthless, the objects of mockery;
when their judgment comes, they will perish.


Yes, the things people put on that tree are not just idols but objects of mockery. Santa is a mockery of God, the reindeer and sleigh is a mockery of the rapture.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#42
you were born on a day of a week in a month, all named after pagan gods.
'
there is paganism everywhere.

ever order anything from amazon?

look at their logo.
Really? I was born on the third day of Passover. You are saying that the month of Nisan is a pagan name and that Passover is named after pagan gods?

I do not order anything from Amazon and will have nothing to do with that company.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,802
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#43
Really? I was born on the third day of Passover. You are saying that the month of Nisan is a pagan name and that Passover is named after pagan gods?

I do not order anything from Amazon and will have nothing to do with that company.
ah, so you do not acknowledge the gregorian calendar.

o..k.

but, you have public records that are using that.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
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#45
ah, so you do not acknowledge the gregorian calendar.

o..k.

but, you have public records that are using that.
What do you mean by "acknowledge"? What do you mean by having a public record of using that? There is a gregorian calendar, it has pagan names. That does not mean that I was born on a day of a week of a month named after a pagan God. I was formed and created by God. My birth had nothing to do with the pagan gods which are vanity.
 

ZNP

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Sep 14, 2020
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#46
Here is my biblical response,

Merry Christmas
I will accept that neither you nor Kaylagrl has anything from the Bible that contradicts anything shared in this thread.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#47
Really? I was born on the third day of Passover. You are saying that the month of Nisan is a pagan name and that Passover is named after pagan gods?

I do not order anything from Amazon and will have nothing to do with that company.


All kinds of companies have pagan names and symbols. Vikings, or anything sports related, is idol worship. NBC, peacock, Dove products, Goodyear tires. Ajax cleaner, Mobil gas, Venus products, the Olympic Games, certainly you'd never go to a doctor with the symbol they used. Orion pictures, Midas, Subaru, FTD flowers, Honda. Just a handful of products you or any other Christian cannot use because of pagan/ idol roots.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#48
I will accept that neither you nor Kaylagrl has anything from the Bible that contradicts anything shared in this thread.
You've already been told, Jer isn't talking about a Christmas tree. So that shoots that part of your argument out of the water.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#49
You've already been told, Jer isn't talking about a Christmas tree. So that shoots that part of your argument out of the water.
LOL, Jeremiah is talking about idol worship, it applies every bit as much today as it did then. He is talking about Israel picking up pagan practices of worship from Babylon, the "christmas tree" is not in any way related to the NT or Jesus birth, it comes straight from Baal worship in Babylon, doesn't matter what you call it.

You don't get to tell me what the Bible says, sorry.

Once again you have not provided the slightest Biblical support for the use of "Christmas tree" to celebrate any Christian holiday much less the Lord's birth.

The truth is you don't care. You will do whatever is right in your own eyes.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
11,802
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#50
LOL, Jeremiah is talking about idol worship, it applies every bit as much today as it did then. He is talking about Israel picking up pagan practices of worship from Babylon, the "christmas tree" is not in any way related to the NT or Jesus birth, it comes straight from Baal worship in Babylon, doesn't matter what you call it.

You don't get to tell me what the Bible says, sorry.

Once again you have not provided the slightest Biblical support for the use of "Christmas tree" to celebrate any Christian holiday much less the Lord's birth.

The truth is you don't care. You will do whatever is right in your own eyes.
what is the harm in having a tree if you are not worshiping it??
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#52
LOL, Jeremiah is talking about idol worship, it applies every bit as much today as it did then. He is talking about Israel picking up pagan practices of worship from Babylon, the "christmas tree" is not in any way related to the NT or Jesus birth, it comes straight from Baal worship in Babylon, doesn't matter what you call it.
You don't get to tell me what the Bible says, sorry.
Nah, nah, nah!! It does matter what it's called, the subject matters. Idol worship has zip to do with a Christmas tree. It wasn't talking about a Christmas tree. You don't just get to add to Scripture. The Bible doesn't say anything any different to you than to anyone else. This was not a Christmas tree.


Once again you have not provided the slightest Biblical support for the use of "Christmas tree" to celebrate any Christian holiday much less the Lord's birth.
.
And you haven't proven any reason not to.



The truth is you don't care. You will do whatever is right in your own eyes.
And now you're being completely judgmental and taking the place of God. Wow, when you get fired up you get nasty quick! Never had a cross word and now you'd say something that nasty and judgmental. Well, I do say.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#53

kaylagrl

Senior Member

Oct 18, 201417,4494,840113




Today at 8:42 PM
New #30
SophieT said:
if you really want to see what is going on, check out the wormwood thread

it will become clearer



no idea what you are saying that for[/QUOTE]



Because I don't think that I could read anything that would make his or their ideas clear to me. Or understand what is going on, unless you walk me through it. Maybe you get it. I'm a total loss.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
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#54
what is the harm in having a tree if you are not worshiping it??
"what is Christmas a shadow of?"

This was not the burden I had for the thread. My point is that this holiday is celebrated by Christians around the world because of the sovereignty of the Lord. On the 24th in the evening we celebrate the stories in Luke and worship the Lord. The next morning you have the Pagan worship with all of the idols and magical stories of Satan. This is God's sovereignty. We are rehearsing something very important, that is how all of God's holy days are set up. Just like Paul said, don't let anyone judge you concerning keeping this festival, it is a shadow of things to come.

My burden is "what is Christmas a shadow of?"

We have this very strange holiday that describes a thief in the night sneaking into your house after the night watch for this birth.

The holiday clearly is a reference to Satan (Santa), it is clearly a picture of the great deception that is given to the whole world because they did not love the truth.

It is clearly mocking the rapture with this Chariot being pulled by flying reindeer.

It is clearly a picture of the apostasy exchanging the glorious savior for a bunch of junky things you were forced into getting from the mall.

But the story in Luke also has a very strange correlation to today. Those of us who have refused to get the vaccine have found there is no room for us in the Inn, we can no longer work at our job, no longer go to restaurants.

The census that sent Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem seems quite reminiscent of this vaccine passport they want us all to get. Same goal, same purpose.

We are celebrating the birth of the king and yet Paul tells us these celebrations are a shadow of things to come. What birth is to come? Are we talking about the baby born in Revelation 12?

The wise men who saw his star in the sky reminds me of those who have seen the great sign in the heavens in Revelation 12, does that mean the man child is the baby we are celebrating at this holy day?

Revelation 12 doesn't just describe the man child being snatched up to the heavens it also describes the dragon and the fallen angels being cast out of heaven to earth. Does Christmas depict both of these events, at night we have the night watch for the Lord's coming, the long silent night, and in the morning we have Satan coming as a thief with his shabby counterfeit of the Lord of Glory and His salvation.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
32,298
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#55
And now you're being completely judgmental and taking the place of God. Wow, when you get fired up you get nasty quick! Never had a cross word and now you'd say something that nasty and judgmental. Well, I do say.
I have asked you repeatedly to explain why you care about a Christmas tree. No answer. I have asked why you think a Christmas tree represents Jesus' birth. No answer.

I have shared the history of this tree that traces back to Babylon and the worship of Baal. You don't deny it yet there is no response, no answer. The only thing I can conclude is you don't care. You have been given many opportunities to explain, but you haven't, your silence speaks volumes.

If a Christmas tree is not an idol then who cares if you have a Christmas tree or not, it is simply an ornament. Yet you seem to think that not having a Christmas tree is the same as not celebrating Jesus birth. You can say what you wish but to a number of us that smacks of idol worship.
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#56
no idea what you are saying that for


Because I don't think that I could read anything that would make his or their ideas clear to me. Or understand what is going on, unless you walk me through it. Maybe you get it. I'm a total loss. [/QUOTE]

ok...got it

I was referring to the deference given to outlandish ideas

like the Nibiru planet going to wipe us out...all the videos in the wormwood thread

he follows all the prophets of doom who like to imagine God was addressing believers in the year 2021 with the OT prophets...kind of like what that Jewish man does...forget his name...the one who wrote the books about 9/11

look at the OT scriptures he posts...it's all about how God is going to punish us...but we are not reprobate Israel and I don't know about others here, or what they think about all the Nibiru stuff, but he already foretold some date back in I think Sept when it was going to hit and of course it did not happen

I can't wrap my head around why some people just have to have this spicy OT prophet of doom mentality and eat up all the stuff on the net that foretells the end when we have barely had the beginning of the end

he is also a great advocate for the so called Bible codes....which have been debunked for some time now

I believe people should be honest about what they really believe and not take people on a trip through the desert for 4o years and we have to guess while they drop hints as if they had some secret word from God while the rest of us are scratching our nether regions

done the research.....I'm not making things up and if he wants to follow and believe these things that is his prerogative, but like I said, just be up front about it and not start a thread like some kind of prophet that just arrived on the 9 o'clock bus from the Negev looking for a place to buy tums cause those locusts upset his tummy
 
S

SophieT

Guest
#57
My burden is "what is Christmas a shadow of?"

We have this very strange holiday that describes a thief in the night sneaking into your house after the night watch for this birth.

The holiday clearly is a reference to Satan (Santa), it is clearly a picture of the great deception that is given to the whole world because they did not love the truth.

It is clearly mocking the rapture with this Chariot being pulled by flying reindeer.
I would laugh at this comparison, but you are serious

in the meantime, have you seen any of the ways God is answering prayer with regards to the mandates and abortion?

or are you so busy condemning everyone that you now pray only for retribution and the day of God's wrath?

I pray for God's mercy and I believe I am led to pray that way. who knows. He may yet turn and show mercy

Ezekiel 18:21-23
“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?

well, it seems God does not have pleasure even in the death of the wicked, so why are so many false prophets saying He wants to destroy and harm and send people to hell?

God is merciful. I do not believe what these prophets of doom forecast is from God

the time will come when it is the end, but not yet and only when God says it is time

why are people, some people, so eager for death and destruction?
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,918
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#58
3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.


So yes, they cut down an evergreen tree, put it into a stand in the house and adorned it with silver and gold just like we do

That isn't at all the same as decorating a tree. That is cutting a tree down then shaping it with tools which would be how one makes a wooden idol perhaps shaping it to have a face of a God etc...it's no longer a tree with branches but wood like this:



idol of wood and gold.png
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
32,298
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#59
I would laugh at this comparison, but you are serious

in the meantime, have you seen any of the ways God is answering prayer with regards to the mandates and abortion?
There are threads that cover those two topics in great detail, I participate in both those threads. If you are serious about this question you will go to those threads. I think it would derail this thread to discuss it here. In a word yes, I am very aware of what is happening.

or are you so busy condemning everyone that you now pray only for retribution and the day of God's wrath?
You have that backwards. This started discussion was started simply because Kaylagrl said that having a Christmas tree was associated with celebrating Christ's birthday and the implication of this was if you do not have a Christmas tree then you don't celebrate Christ's death. She condemned me, not the other way around.

I pray for God's mercy and I believe I am led to pray that way. who knows. He may yet turn and show mercy
I believe to the merciful God will show Himself merciful.

“But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live. Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?

well, it seems God does not have pleasure even in the death of the wicked, so why are so many false prophets saying He wants to destroy and harm and send people to hell?
I don't discuss hell or people being sent to hell. I am not familiar with "so many false prophets". I have noticed a few on this forum, I simply ignore them after the 2nd admonition. I believe it is not our place to judge, that is the Lord's place.

God is merciful. I do not believe what these prophets of doom forecast is from God

the time will come when it is the end, but not yet and only when God says it is time

why are people, some people, so eager for death and destruction?
I am eagerly awaiting the coming of the Lord Jesus. I am not eager for death and destruction.

What i don't understand is why Christians would associate the Lord's coming with death and destruction? This is like looking at the birth of a baby as the death and destruction of the placenta.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
32,298
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#60
That isn't at all the same as decorating a tree. That is cutting a tree down then shaping it with tools which would be how one makes a wooden idol perhaps shaping it to have a face of a God etc...it's no longer a tree with branches but wood like this:



View attachment 233900
Screen Shot 2021-12-11 at 11.17.42 PM.png
Really, try googling Buddha Christmas ornament