Christ's Believing Followers Aren't Robots

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WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
20
0
#1
-
People are already robotic due to their slavery to human nature.

Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Writing about this situation; the apostle Paul said:

Eph 2:1-3 . .You were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you
once lived following the age of this world, following the ruler of the power of
the air, the spirit that is now at work in the disobedient. All of us once lived
among them in the desires of our flesh, following the wishes of the flesh and
the impulses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest.

I rather think most people would be much better off as slaves to divine
nature rather than human nature; God has a way to do it.

Ezek 36:26-27 . . I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit into you:
I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender heart;
and I will put My spirit into you. Thus I will cause you to follow My laws and
faithfully to observe My rules.

An "heart of flesh" would normally be regarded in modern Sunday school
classes as a bad thing. Here in Ezekiel, flesh is juxtaposed with stone to
indicate that God is talking about tenderness; which can be defined as
gentleness, kindness, sensitivity, and deep affection; i.e. the warm, softer
emotions.

A heart of stone is cold and dead, like those massive granite monoliths in
Yosemite Valley. They feel not the slightest pity for climbers who lose their
grip and fall. Nope, those big rocks just go on like nothing ever happened;
silent, indifferent, unconcerned, non grieving, non compassionate, and
unsympathetic; i.e. they feel nothing: nothing at all.

Bottom line: Seeing as how love is essential to peace in heaven's society;
then the thoughtless, the callous, and the insensitive would be shut out
forever and ever were it not for Ezek 36:26-27. Plus; in hell they would be
permanent slaves to human nature.

Watch as I deliberately paraphrase the following passages. Though the texts
aren't verbatim quotes from the Bible; the message the paraphrases convey
is spot-on.

"I assure you: unless hard-hearted people are born again, they can never
see the Kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"Don't be surprised at my statement that the uncivil and the cruel must
undergo a birth performed by the hand of God." (John 3:7)

Note that the birth performed by the hand of God, about which Jesus spoke,
isn't optional; it's a must.

FYI: Robots have artificial intelligence. People on track for heaven will have
Christ's intelligence.

John 11:25 . . I am the resurrection, and the life

/
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,015
413
83
#2
Colossians 2:11-12 NASB
[11] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; [12] having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
7,446
292
83
#3
Web,
pray, try and 'preach' something that many of us would like to hear and feel!!!
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
753
16
18
#4
I get you, having the same thought as it just happened that I came across this comic earlier today...

chickenpersonality.jpg

I believe Augustine had the same revelation concerning the consequences of the fall and Christ's restoration [and I'd argue maybe even the dynamic] of (sound) rationality that had, initially, been missing [with(out) the administration of the Holy Spirit]
 

beta

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2016
2,497
115
63
#5
-
People are already robotic due to their slavery to human nature.

Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Writing about this situation; the apostle Paul said:

Eph 2:1-3 . .You were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you
once lived following the age of this world, following the ruler of the power of
the air, the spirit that is now at work in the disobedient. All of us once lived
among them in the desires of our flesh, following the wishes of the flesh and
the impulses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest.

I rather think most people would be much better off as slaves to divine
nature rather than human nature; God has a way to do it.

Ezek 36:26-27 . . I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit into you:
I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender heart;
and I will put My spirit into you. Thus I will cause you to follow My laws and
faithfully to observe My rules.

An "heart of flesh" would normally be regarded in modern Sunday school
classes as a bad thing. Here in Ezekiel, flesh is juxtaposed with stone to
indicate that God is talking about tenderness; which can be defined as
gentleness, kindness, sensitivity, and deep affection; i.e. the warm, softer
emotions.

A heart of stone is cold and dead, like those massive granite monoliths in
Yosemite Valley. They feel not the slightest pity for climbers who lose their
grip and fall. Nope, those big rocks just go on like nothing ever happened;
silent, indifferent, unconcerned, non grieving, non compassionate, and
unsympathetic; i.e. they feel nothing: nothing at all.

Bottom line: Seeing as how love is essential to peace in heaven's society;
then the thoughtless, the callous, and the insensitive would be shut out
forever and ever were it not for Ezek 36:26-27. Plus; in hell they would be
permanent slaves to human nature.

Watch as I deliberately paraphrase the following passages. Though the texts
aren't verbatim quotes from the Bible; the message the paraphrases convey
is spot-on.

"I assure you: unless hard-hearted people are born again, they can never
see the Kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"Don't be surprised at my statement that the uncivil and the cruel must
undergo a birth performed by the hand of God." (John 3:7)

Note that the birth performed by the hand of God, about which Jesus spoke,
isn't optional; it's a must.

FYI: Robots have artificial intelligence. People on track for heaven will have
Christ's intelligence.

John 11:25 . . I am the resurrection, and the life

/
This is rather interesting ! Of course man must change from his natural state to God's DIVINE state/nature 2Pet 1v4 through and by a 'new birth Joh 3....in order to be 'conformed to the image of Christ !Rom 8v29.
Was Yashuah/Jesus a Robot ? of course not, but neither did He do or say anything of and by Himself....many scriptures tell us He only said and did what His Father told Him !
And that is HOW WE are to become...LIVING REPLICAS/extensions of GOD !!!
Personally I see us as being like TRANSMITTERS - people through whom GOD is acting and speaking !

what is your opinion ?
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
21,972
366
83
#6
???

To me, Webbers comment and Crossnotes comment do not conflict, must be missing something.....hmm

All three Scriptures used are compatible to the Gospel of Christ as I read them
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,944
58
48
#7
Colossians 2:11-12 NASB
[11] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; [12] having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Not sure if you are agree with the OP or if you think that this shows that man has to have faith to be born again, if that is it. You missed the most important part of this verse.

Colossians 2:11-15 “In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.15 He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him.”

This is the same as Ephesians 2:4-10, "made without hands" means by God and "God made alive together with Him" being made alive is the new birth and together with Him is our union with Christ. Romans 3:21-31 gives the full explaination of how salvation works from God's
sovereignty and our response to His gift without works of righteousness.

“But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it—22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

We are justified by God as a gift from God, if we look at Ephesians 2:4-10


But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christby grace you have been saved6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

We are saved by grace, because of His mercy wich mean "to show pity" BAGD Greek Lexicon. Because the Father had pity on us sinners He made us alive or made us born again because of our union with Christ. In Romans 3:24 after the Father's merciful work in our lives we need to receive His propitiation by faith, this is why Ephesians 2:8 adds "throught faith" to "by grace you have been saved." Because it by our response in faith to the Father's soveriegn work in our lives, we fulfill.

Romans 1:17 “For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” Once we are made righteous by God's grace, we live by faith for our sanctification and it is not by anything we do, Ephesians 2:8b-10 because it is the gift of God. Here in Romans 3:27-28 futher shows us that we do not receive it by works, we have nothing to boast about in our salvation because it is the Father that saves us and we respond to His propitiation by faith.



27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.”

Our boasting is excluded by the law of faith, a faith that He give to His people Romans 12:3 “For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.” So the Father assigns us a measure of faith, that we us to receive His popitiation for our justification by faith.





 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
26,015
413
83
#8

Not sure if you are agree with the OP or if you think that this shows that man has to have faith to be born again, if that is it.

Both. I agree with the OP and man must have faith to be born again. I see no contradiction. Do you?
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,084
155
63
#9
-
People are already robotic due to their slavery to human nature.

Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots?
Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Writing about this situation; the apostle Paul said:

Eph 2:1-3 . .You were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you
once lived following the age of this world, following the ruler of the power of
the air, the spirit that is now at work in the disobedient. All of us once lived
among them in the desires of our flesh, following the wishes of the flesh and
the impulses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest.

I rather think most people would be much better off as slaves to divine
nature rather than human nature; God has a way to do it.

Ezek 36:26-27 . . I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit into you:
I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a tender heart;
and I will put My spirit into you. Thus I will cause you to follow My laws and
faithfully to observe My rules.

An "heart of flesh" would normally be regarded in modern Sunday school
classes as a bad thing. Here in Ezekiel, flesh is juxtaposed with stone to
indicate that God is talking about tenderness; which can be defined as
gentleness, kindness, sensitivity, and deep affection; i.e. the warm, softer
emotions.

A heart of stone is cold and dead, like those massive granite monoliths in
Yosemite Valley. They feel not the slightest pity for climbers who lose their
grip and fall. Nope, those big rocks just go on like nothing ever happened;
silent, indifferent, unconcerned, non grieving, non compassionate, and
unsympathetic; i.e. they feel nothing: nothing at all.

Bottom line: Seeing as how love is essential to peace in heaven's society;
then the thoughtless, the callous, and the insensitive would be shut out
forever and ever were it not for Ezek 36:26-27. Plus; in hell they would be
permanent slaves to human nature.

Watch as I deliberately paraphrase the following passages. Though the texts
aren't verbatim quotes from the Bible; the message the paraphrases convey
is spot-on.

"I assure you: unless hard-hearted people are born again, they can never
see the Kingdom of God." (John 3:3)

"Don't be surprised at my statement that the uncivil and the cruel must
undergo a birth performed by the hand of God." (John 3:7)

Note that the birth performed by the hand of God, about which Jesus spoke,
isn't optional; it's a must.

FYI: Robots have artificial intelligence. People on track for heaven will have
Christ's intelligence.

John 11:25 . . I am the resurrection, and the life

/


This is a really nice post Webster., Being born again gives us a totally NEW identity in Christ. (sons) The Bible says we were taken out of death and brought into His marvelous salvation. (light) Once we were under sin and cursed headed for judgement. Now in Christ we are new creations... old things have passed away behold all things have become new. We have a new heart. Once we were "a far off" but not now. Made alive in Him.

Now we enter into the totally new walk of faith. We can now make the choice to walk by our previous manner of life (the flesh) or walk according to our new man., our new spirit man who is directed and listens to the HolySpirit. We were not able to do this before since we were under the curse and didn't have the Holy Spirit nor were we new creations alive to God. Now because of Jesus (the pure representation of the Father) we are no longer under the law of sin and death., we are totally NEW.... Romans 8:1-2

Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]
2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.



A born again son is able to make a choice... do I give into my flesh with it's many and varied lusts OR do I submit to the Holy Spirit and walk by the new heart Jesus gave me? The Bible says in Gal. 5:16

[SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).





Romans 8:3-10

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For God has done what the Law could not do, [its power] being weakened by the flesh [[SUP][a][/SUP]the entire nature of man without the Holy Spirit]. Sending His own Son in the guise of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, [God] condemned sin in the flesh [[SUP][b][/SUP]subdued, overcame, [SUP][c][/SUP]deprived it of its power over all who accept that sacrifice],
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]So that the righteous and just requirement of the Law might be fully met in us who live and move not in the ways of the flesh but in the ways of the Spirit [our lives governed not by the standards and according to the dictates of the flesh, but controlled by the Holy Spirit].
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh and are controlled by its unholy desires set their minds on and [SUP][d][/SUP]pursue those things which gratify the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit and are controlled by the desires of the Spirit set their minds on and [SUP][e][/SUP]seek those things which gratify the [Holy] Spirit.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that [SUP][f][/SUP]comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
[SUP]
7 [/SUP][That is] because the mind of the flesh [with its carnal thoughts and purposes] is hostile to God, for it does not submit itself to God’s Law; indeed it cannot.
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]So then those who are living the life of the flesh [catering to the appetites and impulses of their carnal nature] cannot please or satisfy God, or be acceptable to Him.
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you]. But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God].
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]But if Christ lives in you, [then although] your [natural] body is dead by reason of sin and guilt, the spirit is alive because of [the] righteousness [that He imputes to you].


 
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