Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?
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Chrysostom's Commentary on Galatians where Paul warned about the priests of the mother goddess:
Galatians 5:1.-"With freedom did Christ set us free; stand fast therefore.115 ." Ver. 12.
"I would that they which unsettle you would even cutthemselves off." And he says well "that unsettle you."
"A man that is heretical after the first and second admonition refuse." (Tit. iii: 10) If they will, let them not only be circumcised, but mutilated.
Where then are those who dare to mutilate themselves; seeing that they draw down the Apostolic curse, and accuse the workmanship of God, and take part with the Manichees? ... But if you will not allow this, why do you not mutilate the tongue for blasphemy, the hands for rapine, the feet for their evil courses, in short, the whole body?
For the ear enchanted by the sound of a flute hath often enervated [laded burden] the soul;
and the perception of a sweet perfume by the nostrils hath bewitched the mind, and made it frantic for pleasure."
We can quote all honest history to affirm that it was God and not Churches of Christ who commanded us NOT to make instrumental or rhetorical noise when the only assembly is to REST, READ AND REHEARSE the Word of God. The Word or LOGOS is called the Regulative Principle and forbids self-referenced rhetoricians, singing, playing instruments or drama: the word is used in the Greek text to mean "instrumental melody in a holy place or shrine." A temple was never a house of worship but a place to park one's "god."
Christ in Isaiah 58 and Paul in Romans 15 prohibited self-pleasure (the performing artists) so that the direct command could be obeyed "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning" or Scripture for our Comfort. Churches of Christ missed that one mostly in my life time where entertainment is used to call in the world (Kosmos) for which Jesus said He would not even pray.
The Bible uses the word enchantment or SORCERY or soothsaying of Miriam (saith the Law), the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites, the Scribes and Pharisees (Hypocrites as speakers, singers, instrument players Ezek.33, and the end-time singers (Muses), religious craftsmen and instrument players in Revelation 18. It is true that Scripture never says "thou shalt not be a sorcerer or witch."
A Laded Burden includes the never-commanded playing and singing (screeching or wailing but NEVER metrical) defined as "creating spiritual anxiety by religious rituals." REST or PAUO has the same meaning as SABBATH where instruments were forbidden EXCEPT for the Levites who has been abandoned to worship the starry host. The word PAUO is used to mean
STOP the speaking (Isaiah 58), stop the singing, stop the playing, stop anything which creates the PAN complex or "panic caused by religious rites." That's why Jesus said that the kingdom does not come with observation meaning religious worship services. Jesus continued to quarantine the godly people to the ekklesia-synagogue which was A School of the Word Only: it had no praise service.
BURDEN also includes "a tax not in time of war" forbidden for the Word by Christ in Isaiah 55.
A DISCIPLE of Christ approaches God in reverence and Godly Fear because a STUDENT has nothing to TEACH the Master Teacher. Hebrews 12 warns about the SHAKING of the kingdom like that at Mount Sinai for which God abandoned Israel because GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE.
Galatians 5:1.-"With freedom did Christ set us free; stand fast therefore.115 ." Ver. 12.
"I would that they which unsettle you would even cutthemselves off." And he says well "that unsettle you."
"A man that is heretical after the first and second admonition refuse." (Tit. iii: 10) If they will, let them not only be circumcised, but mutilated.
Where then are those who dare to mutilate themselves; seeing that they draw down the Apostolic curse, and accuse the workmanship of God, and take part with the Manichees? ... But if you will not allow this, why do you not mutilate the tongue for blasphemy, the hands for rapine, the feet for their evil courses, in short, the whole body?
For the ear enchanted by the sound of a flute hath often enervated [laded burden] the soul;
and the perception of a sweet perfume by the nostrils hath bewitched the mind, and made it frantic for pleasure."
We can quote all honest history to affirm that it was God and not Churches of Christ who commanded us NOT to make instrumental or rhetorical noise when the only assembly is to REST, READ AND REHEARSE the Word of God. The Word or LOGOS is called the Regulative Principle and forbids self-referenced rhetoricians, singing, playing instruments or drama: the word is used in the Greek text to mean "instrumental melody in a holy place or shrine." A temple was never a house of worship but a place to park one's "god."
Christ in Isaiah 58 and Paul in Romans 15 prohibited self-pleasure (the performing artists) so that the direct command could be obeyed "use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written for our learning" or Scripture for our Comfort. Churches of Christ missed that one mostly in my life time where entertainment is used to call in the world (Kosmos) for which Jesus said He would not even pray.
The Bible uses the word enchantment or SORCERY or soothsaying of Miriam (saith the Law), the Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levites, the Scribes and Pharisees (Hypocrites as speakers, singers, instrument players Ezek.33, and the end-time singers (Muses), religious craftsmen and instrument players in Revelation 18. It is true that Scripture never says "thou shalt not be a sorcerer or witch."
A Laded Burden includes the never-commanded playing and singing (screeching or wailing but NEVER metrical) defined as "creating spiritual anxiety by religious rituals." REST or PAUO has the same meaning as SABBATH where instruments were forbidden EXCEPT for the Levites who has been abandoned to worship the starry host. The word PAUO is used to mean
STOP the speaking (Isaiah 58), stop the singing, stop the playing, stop anything which creates the PAN complex or "panic caused by religious rites." That's why Jesus said that the kingdom does not come with observation meaning religious worship services. Jesus continued to quarantine the godly people to the ekklesia-synagogue which was A School of the Word Only: it had no praise service.
BURDEN also includes "a tax not in time of war" forbidden for the Word by Christ in Isaiah 55.
A DISCIPLE of Christ approaches God in reverence and Godly Fear because a STUDENT has nothing to TEACH the Master Teacher. Hebrews 12 warns about the SHAKING of the kingdom like that at Mount Sinai for which God abandoned Israel because GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE.
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And by what mandate is the CoC the Lord's Church? Yours? Its not like their is any proof you are somehow more righteous than the baptist, methodist, or presbyterians.
And commandments to sing only? Thats a big stretch...
I mean sure its easy to find verses about singing praises and whatnot. I get that. The odd part is finding those verses that say using instruments is a sin? They don't appear anywhere in my Bible or in the bibles I looked at online. Now if you want to take the time and infer that instruments are sin and then say its true that they are a sin..well you can add whatever you want to your worship services. BUt it doesnt make the king bubbahotep of all worship services the world over. So instead of being a normal christian and realizing not everyone has to follow in your footsteps, you have instead become a self-righteous, holier-than-thou, blowhard, who would be an embarrassment to any church or religion of which you claim membership.
And commandments to sing only? Thats a big stretch...
- Matt. 26:30: "And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives."
- Rom. 15:9: "Therefore I will praise thee among the Gentiles, and sing to thy name"
- Eph. 5:18,19: "... be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart,"
- 1 Cor. 14:15: "I will sing with the Spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."
- Col. 3:16: "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly; in all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts unto God.
- Heb. 2:12: "I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee."
I mean sure its easy to find verses about singing praises and whatnot. I get that. The odd part is finding those verses that say using instruments is a sin? They don't appear anywhere in my Bible or in the bibles I looked at online. Now if you want to take the time and infer that instruments are sin and then say its true that they are a sin..well you can add whatever you want to your worship services. BUt it doesnt make the king bubbahotep of all worship services the world over. So instead of being a normal christian and realizing not everyone has to follow in your footsteps, you have instead become a self-righteous, holier-than-thou, blowhard, who would be an embarrassment to any church or religion of which you claim membership.
In Romans 14 Paul wrote about the believers who saw one another in the Agora or Marketplace: the MARK of the three sects was where you saw them buying their food often taking their meals in the common kitchens. The mark of all of the sects was that they wanted to impose doubtful disputations but Paul restricted the common assembly in Romans 15 to edification or education. In a religious sense rather than in their personal lives;
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin
THE FAITH comes by hearing the WORD of God: that is thee LOGOS defined as God's regulative principle. If you are commanded to teach only "that which is written for our learning" and commanded to use one mind and one mouth, you need to understand how LOGOS is used. It is the opposite of PATHOS or personal opinions or personal experiences, it is opposite to Rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or acting.
Paul uses "synagogue" words to define assemblying, gathering or coming together: we know from Numbers that the Spirit OF Christ silenced "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" which includes high-sounding rhetoric. The Synagogue was a WORD OF GOD ONLY assembly: they had no praise service because it was forbidden and because anyone should know that SPEAKING the Word does not fit with playing instruments. So, out of respect for the commandment, God and His Word and others who are "enchanted or sorcererized" by instrumental sounds. Recent studies have proven that a vast number of people will never attend any music- or rhetoric-focused assembly because they suffer from AHEDONIA which means that they are damaged by what others think is cute, talented or entertainment.
So, believe Scripture and church history before superstitious LITURGY as human WORKS was imposed by people who got paid and convinced you that they are the mediators in song and sermon when Scripture says that the Man Jesus Christ is the only Mediator. That is why we honor the key commandment of Jesus to make disciples by teaching and baptizing and then TEACHING them what HE commanded to be taught. Jesus was musically mocked by the Jewish clergy in prophecy and in fact.
If Christ in the Prophets and Apostles did not teach but condemned all performers, and the Church is built upon or EDUCATED by the Prophets and Apostles, and the assembly is defined for EDUCATION or learning only, then everyone gets to decide whether they have the right to IMPOSE (mosly during and follwoing the frontier revivals) instrumental sounds because they found out: YES, it is true: we can induce a "saved" spell of ecstasy simply by using mechanical sounds and the drum-beat rhythm. However, is you IMPOSE something as the "works of human hands" and are expending ERGS or units of talent and work, doesn't that mean that you are a legalist and believe that, as with people from the cave and beyond, you can control or aid the "gods" by your own effort?
I can post God's asssociation between instrumental sounds and telling God "we will not obey" (Ezek 33, Job 21) all day long and no one can find a single example in the Bible or for centuries in church history where God wants to call you out of your REST to engage in congregational or group-performance singing with or without instruments. So, where would anyone suddenly get the notion that God COMMANDS instrumental praise which is just what the Shaman said and says?
It is a recorded fact that the music "thingy" has been the primary creator of discord since unwashed Bishops from Syrian introduced singing c. ad 393 and thereby split the East from the West Church to this day. Even simple people objected because they understand that SPEAK that which is written to teach and admonish did not mean SING that which which the bishop wrote even if in the form of "bible stories."
To Ephraim pertains the high and unique distinction of having originated-or at least given its living impulse to-
a new departure in sacred literature; and that, not for his own country merely, but for Christendom.
From him came, if not the first idea, at all events the first successful example,
of making song an essential constituent of public worship,
and an exponent of theological teaching;
and from him it spread and prevailed through
the Eastern Churches, and affected even those of the West.
To the Hymns, on which chiefly his fame rests, the Syriac ritual in all its forms owes much of its strength and richness;
and to them is largely due the place which Hymnody holds throughout the Church everywhere.
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin
THE FAITH comes by hearing the WORD of God: that is thee LOGOS defined as God's regulative principle. If you are commanded to teach only "that which is written for our learning" and commanded to use one mind and one mouth, you need to understand how LOGOS is used. It is the opposite of PATHOS or personal opinions or personal experiences, it is opposite to Rhetoric, singing, playing instruments or acting.
Paul uses "synagogue" words to define assemblying, gathering or coming together: we know from Numbers that the Spirit OF Christ silenced "vocal or instrumental rejoicing" which includes high-sounding rhetoric. The Synagogue was a WORD OF GOD ONLY assembly: they had no praise service because it was forbidden and because anyone should know that SPEAKING the Word does not fit with playing instruments. So, out of respect for the commandment, God and His Word and others who are "enchanted or sorcererized" by instrumental sounds. Recent studies have proven that a vast number of people will never attend any music- or rhetoric-focused assembly because they suffer from AHEDONIA which means that they are damaged by what others think is cute, talented or entertainment.
So, believe Scripture and church history before superstitious LITURGY as human WORKS was imposed by people who got paid and convinced you that they are the mediators in song and sermon when Scripture says that the Man Jesus Christ is the only Mediator. That is why we honor the key commandment of Jesus to make disciples by teaching and baptizing and then TEACHING them what HE commanded to be taught. Jesus was musically mocked by the Jewish clergy in prophecy and in fact.
If Christ in the Prophets and Apostles did not teach but condemned all performers, and the Church is built upon or EDUCATED by the Prophets and Apostles, and the assembly is defined for EDUCATION or learning only, then everyone gets to decide whether they have the right to IMPOSE (mosly during and follwoing the frontier revivals) instrumental sounds because they found out: YES, it is true: we can induce a "saved" spell of ecstasy simply by using mechanical sounds and the drum-beat rhythm. However, is you IMPOSE something as the "works of human hands" and are expending ERGS or units of talent and work, doesn't that mean that you are a legalist and believe that, as with people from the cave and beyond, you can control or aid the "gods" by your own effort?
I can post God's asssociation between instrumental sounds and telling God "we will not obey" (Ezek 33, Job 21) all day long and no one can find a single example in the Bible or for centuries in church history where God wants to call you out of your REST to engage in congregational or group-performance singing with or without instruments. So, where would anyone suddenly get the notion that God COMMANDS instrumental praise which is just what the Shaman said and says?
It is a recorded fact that the music "thingy" has been the primary creator of discord since unwashed Bishops from Syrian introduced singing c. ad 393 and thereby split the East from the West Church to this day. Even simple people objected because they understand that SPEAK that which is written to teach and admonish did not mean SING that which which the bishop wrote even if in the form of "bible stories."
To Ephraim pertains the high and unique distinction of having originated-or at least given its living impulse to-
a new departure in sacred literature; and that, not for his own country merely, but for Christendom.
From him came, if not the first idea, at all events the first successful example,
of making song an essential constituent of public worship,
and an exponent of theological teaching;
and from him it spread and prevailed through
the Eastern Churches, and affected even those of the West.
To the Hymns, on which chiefly his fame rests, the Syriac ritual in all its forms owes much of its strength and richness;
and to them is largely due the place which Hymnody holds throughout the Church everywhere.
Hi,
The "no where did God forbid IM" is a very flawed, invalid argument,...but flawed invalid arguments are all they have....
Here is a link to a good article on the silence of the Scriptures:
https://www.christiancourier.com/ar...-the-scriptures-permissive-or-prohibitive-the
A particular good part of the article on will-worship is below: (my emp)
[h=3]Will-Worship[/h]In Paul’s letter to the saints at Colossae, he condemned the practice of “will-worship,” a disposition which is “after the precepts and doctrines of men” (Colossians 2:22-23). Vine defines will-worship as “voluntarily adopted worship, whether unbidden or forbidden” (1962, 236).
We have no difficulty in understanding what it means to do that which is “forbidden.” But what does it mean to do that which is “unbidden”—if it is not doing that about which the Bible is silent?
Noted lexicographer J. H. Thayer described will-worship as “worship which one devises and prescribes for himself” (1958, 168). Everett Harrison commented that “will-worship” is that which “is not prescribed by God but only by (the will of) man” (1971, 72).
Here is the issue: if one may, with divine approval, operate in the realm of silence, why can’t he “devise and prescribe for himself” whatever pleases him? And yet, it is this very thing being censured.
The "no where did God forbid IM" is a very flawed, invalid argument,...but flawed invalid arguments are all they have....
Here is a link to a good article on the silence of the Scriptures:
https://www.christiancourier.com/ar...-the-scriptures-permissive-or-prohibitive-the
A particular good part of the article on will-worship is below: (my emp)
[h=3]Will-Worship[/h]In Paul’s letter to the saints at Colossae, he condemned the practice of “will-worship,” a disposition which is “after the precepts and doctrines of men” (Colossians 2:22-23). Vine defines will-worship as “voluntarily adopted worship, whether unbidden or forbidden” (1962, 236).
We have no difficulty in understanding what it means to do that which is “forbidden.” But what does it mean to do that which is “unbidden”—if it is not doing that about which the Bible is silent?
Noted lexicographer J. H. Thayer described will-worship as “worship which one devises and prescribes for himself” (1958, 168). Everett Harrison commented that “will-worship” is that which “is not prescribed by God but only by (the will of) man” (1971, 72).
Here is the issue: if one may, with divine approval, operate in the realm of silence, why can’t he “devise and prescribe for himself” whatever pleases him? And yet, it is this very thing being censured.
M
"Praise the LORD! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! Let everything that has breath praise the LORD! Praise the LORD! - psalm 150:1-6
think this kinda gives us a bit of an answer eh?
think this kinda gives us a bit of an answer eh?
if i sounded childish forgiveth me but i should have said touch not smell not but the point i was making was it is not the instrumental part for worship in ancient times was with harps and timbrels and drums even dancing rejoicing in the Lord now today the music i found the Lord is pleased with is a sweet melody and a celebration melody but the ceremonial melody style worship is just a foreshadow of the thing that pleases the Lord the true escence in worship is a contrite and humble heart the Greatest gift to our God A pleasing life in thw Lord
A pure and consecrated life ,a healthy gospel not just one area but all areas not to reject the giftings but accept them not just in spiritual prayer but also in knowledge of God His Word a complete aligned gospel not devouring one another but in the love and fervency of christ in all accord with all the giftings and fruits of the spirit a true born again , this is the message from the MOST HIGH ket Him be thy habitation no more of you and all Him and it will no longer be yourself but God fighting your battles for you .
A pure and consecrated life ,a healthy gospel not just one area but all areas not to reject the giftings but accept them not just in spiritual prayer but also in knowledge of God His Word a complete aligned gospel not devouring one another but in the love and fervency of christ in all accord with all the giftings and fruits of the spirit a true born again , this is the message from the MOST HIGH ket Him be thy habitation no more of you and all Him and it will no longer be yourself but God fighting your battles for you .
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Oh it must of sounded wonderful back then in the Old Testament. But I'll have to admit I like the way God has singing only in the New Testament times in worship. Colossians 3;16 , Ephesians 5:19 But I do see why he changed it to singing only, so he could hear his creation sing to him without instruments so he can have it as spiritual as possible.
The famous motto of the Church of Christ, which is practically its tenet is "Speak where the bible speaks, and be silent where it is silent." Thus in their minds there must be a "Thus saith the Lord" behind everything they do and teach. Everything else is simply based upon human fallibility.
Most people see this as a legalist's excuse to claim exclusiveness from everyone who disagrees with them. But this is exactly where the Church of Christ gets in a quagmire of disputes.
For example, there are many different Churches of Christ because there are a lot of differences among them about how to translate, interpret and understand passages of scripture.
Here are a few points of dispute, which cause differences among the Churches of Christ:
1. Can a woman wear men's clothing; such as pants suits, in the worship assembly?
2. Should the assembly use one cup for communion, or are many small cups acceptable?
3. Are instruments of music acceptable in worship or not?
4. Can a Christian serve in the military or on a police force?
5. Should the worship assembly practice foot washing?
6. Is the handling of deadly snakes, drinking deadly poisons and performance of miracles a sign of true belief?
7. Should the Sunday offerings be used to support orphans homes?
8. Are Hymnals really acceptable in worship?
9. Is using a tuning fork, or tuning device O.K. for the song leader to use?
And lots more. The questions and uncertainties among Churches of Christ vary wildly and are as plentiful as there are imaginations.
So their motto about speaking where the bible speaks and being silent otherwise causes a multitude of disputes among them.
Disputes which split many of their churches apart.
10. Is it acceptable to have fellowship rooms for pot luck suppers and other activities in the church building?
11. Is it acceptable to have a baptistery within the church building?
12. Is it permissible to have a drinking fountain with the church building?
13. Is it permissible to conduct bible schools before worship, or after worship or at all?
14. Should the name "Church of Christ" be registered just like other denominations in a city?
15. Can elders receive a salary from the Sunday offerings?
16. Can elders or deacons serve if they have ever been divorced?
And again, on and on with the uncertainties. Uncertainties that cause Churches of Christ to split and splinter into separate groups. Their main problem exists in their inability to feel comfortable with compromise.
So yes, exactly, which Church of Christ is scriptural, ones which have only acapella singing or those who use musical instruments in worship?
The rest of us look on in astonishment at this group which has more squabbles than the rest of Christendom altogether.
We have no problems with instrumental music in worship because David played his harp out in the fields and was described as a man after God's own heart. God never told David to play it, he just did it out of reverence for God.
But in the minds of members of the Church of Christ, all that changed with the New Covenant, ie. the New Testament. Suddenly, in their minds, what David did was somehow changed?!! There is no explicit statement in the New Testament that such a change has indeed been specified, but the Church of Christ believes that everything that happened in the bible always had a "thus saith the Lord" behind it, therefore since musical instruments in the New Testament do not have a thus saith the Lord, they should just be prohibited.
And there have been churches of Christ with musical instruments for far more than 20 years. I know, because I used to attend the Church of Christ, and in my 20's (I'm 59) I met Christians from "out west" who had no problem using musical instruments in worship.
Legalism, verse hunting and dogmatic opinionated interpretations have caused a multitude of woes among Churches of Christ. I praise God that I found my way out, and my views on a lot of scriptures are at variance with almost everyone, but I feel that the Lord has guided me to my conclusions, which I will openly discuss with anyone but not if it will create animosity.
Most people see this as a legalist's excuse to claim exclusiveness from everyone who disagrees with them. But this is exactly where the Church of Christ gets in a quagmire of disputes.
For example, there are many different Churches of Christ because there are a lot of differences among them about how to translate, interpret and understand passages of scripture.
Here are a few points of dispute, which cause differences among the Churches of Christ:
1. Can a woman wear men's clothing; such as pants suits, in the worship assembly?
2. Should the assembly use one cup for communion, or are many small cups acceptable?
3. Are instruments of music acceptable in worship or not?
4. Can a Christian serve in the military or on a police force?
5. Should the worship assembly practice foot washing?
6. Is the handling of deadly snakes, drinking deadly poisons and performance of miracles a sign of true belief?
7. Should the Sunday offerings be used to support orphans homes?
8. Are Hymnals really acceptable in worship?
9. Is using a tuning fork, or tuning device O.K. for the song leader to use?
And lots more. The questions and uncertainties among Churches of Christ vary wildly and are as plentiful as there are imaginations.
So their motto about speaking where the bible speaks and being silent otherwise causes a multitude of disputes among them.
Disputes which split many of their churches apart.
10. Is it acceptable to have fellowship rooms for pot luck suppers and other activities in the church building?
11. Is it acceptable to have a baptistery within the church building?
12. Is it permissible to have a drinking fountain with the church building?
13. Is it permissible to conduct bible schools before worship, or after worship or at all?
14. Should the name "Church of Christ" be registered just like other denominations in a city?
15. Can elders receive a salary from the Sunday offerings?
16. Can elders or deacons serve if they have ever been divorced?
And again, on and on with the uncertainties. Uncertainties that cause Churches of Christ to split and splinter into separate groups. Their main problem exists in their inability to feel comfortable with compromise.
So yes, exactly, which Church of Christ is scriptural, ones which have only acapella singing or those who use musical instruments in worship?
The rest of us look on in astonishment at this group which has more squabbles than the rest of Christendom altogether.
We have no problems with instrumental music in worship because David played his harp out in the fields and was described as a man after God's own heart. God never told David to play it, he just did it out of reverence for God.
But in the minds of members of the Church of Christ, all that changed with the New Covenant, ie. the New Testament. Suddenly, in their minds, what David did was somehow changed?!! There is no explicit statement in the New Testament that such a change has indeed been specified, but the Church of Christ believes that everything that happened in the bible always had a "thus saith the Lord" behind it, therefore since musical instruments in the New Testament do not have a thus saith the Lord, they should just be prohibited.
And there have been churches of Christ with musical instruments for far more than 20 years. I know, because I used to attend the Church of Christ, and in my 20's (I'm 59) I met Christians from "out west" who had no problem using musical instruments in worship.
Legalism, verse hunting and dogmatic opinionated interpretations have caused a multitude of woes among Churches of Christ. I praise God that I found my way out, and my views on a lot of scriptures are at variance with almost everyone, but I feel that the Lord has guided me to my conclusions, which I will openly discuss with anyone but not if it will create animosity.
The mandate would be the bible. In order to be the Lord's church you must worship his way and that isn't what you do, it's as simple as that. God didn't make two ways to worship, he made one. One faith, one baptism, one God. If you were to do something that God didn't command you to do, like stealing, there's gonna be consequences from God and in this case the law of the land. If you add or take away from worship after he has commanded you to do it a certain way, there's going to be consequences, which the bible has shown us in the past. If I'm wrong, then feel free to show me.
M
shava, the scriptures you have shared do NOT condemn or place forbidden status on music in the church....they merely speak of singing...HOWEVER in Eph 5:19 Paul actually mentions MELODY in your heart
Melody: a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying; a tune.
"he picked out an intricate melody on his guitar"
So there is music in your heart? or is that a sin as there is instrumentation in your heart not singing?
also...
in the Hebrew Bible the title of the Psalms is Tehillim, which means “songs of praise.” In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, the term Psalmoi is employed. The verb form of this Greek word originally referred to the plucking of strings with the fingers. Eventually, Psalmoi came to mean “sacred songs sung to musical accompaniment.”
Melody: a sequence of single notes that is musically satisfying; a tune.
"he picked out an intricate melody on his guitar"
So there is music in your heart? or is that a sin as there is instrumentation in your heart not singing?
also...
in the Hebrew Bible the title of the Psalms is Tehillim, which means “songs of praise.” In the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the Septuagint, the term Psalmoi is employed. The verb form of this Greek word originally referred to the plucking of strings with the fingers. Eventually, Psalmoi came to mean “sacred songs sung to musical accompaniment.”
# 150 is not a PSALM but a HALAL: Halal is praise meaning "to make yourself vile" or "feign Madness." Because this is a warrior's tune it is intended to intimidate the enemy by the nasty implied punishment if the did not turn coward and run. It was also the action of MAD men who believed that the gods (starry host in the firmament) could not punish the insane. When David scrabbled and dribbled on the gate the Philistines said that they "had enough mad men already."
Halal is the root for the word HALAL and has the same meaning as Chalal which means to Play the flute to steal your inheritance or to POLLUTE. The people POLLUTED the sabbath when they rose up in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.
HERE IS ONE OF MANY MESSAGES FROM JESUS:
Jesus called the MEN who were like children or "boys" (Isaiah 3) who PIPED hoping to force people into singing or lamenting and dancing. Jesus considned all of the music and rhetoric to the marketplace or Agora.
In another (of several) example the glory of Jesus would not be shared with singers and instrument players He called hypocrites by pointing to Ezekiel 33.
The usually women minstrels believed that their "prophesying" meaning singing and playing instrument could praise or ASSIST the gods and the dead to make certain that her ghost did not punish them. The Levite Sorcerers also were exorcists used to chase out the demons as flies. All that Jesus did is ANTITHETICAL to the Jews and other pagans.
Matthew 9:23 And when Jesus came into the ruler’s house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise,
aul-ētēs , ou, ho, A.flute-player, Thgn. 941, Hdt.1.141, 6.60, 129, Ar.V.581, And.1.12, Pl.Prt.327b, OGI51.62 (iii B. C.); Boeot. auleitas IG7.3195 (Orchom. Boeot.).
II. kind of wasp, Hsch.
III. au. huponomōn sanitary engineer,
God always calls it NOISE: NOISE is “turbae carmina,” carmen I. In gen., a tune, song, air, lay, strain, note, sound, both vocal and instrumental modi [melody] citharāque [Apollyon's Harp] Apollinem) concordant carmina tuba citharae liquidum carmen “lyraecarmen,
“barbaricum, With allusion to playing on the cithara, 5. A magic formula, an incantation:
Speaking in tongues includes musical instruments so this was Paul's example of barbarians who could not be understood and needed a translator. He warned about Lifeless Instruments which were also Carnal Weapons. The Kingdom does not come with observations or religious rituals not devoted to the WORD: In this example, Jesus did not GO IN to do His Work until the singers and instrument players were CAST OUT.
Matthew 9:25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
ekballō cast out, more or less violently, cast out of the synagogue, exorcize, cast out evil spirits,
ONLY THEN DOES JESUS GET THE GLORY: the Pattern to glorify or praise God is to use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written.
Matthew 9:26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.
That example may not speak to some people: it has always spoken to churches of Christ
Halal is the root for the word HALAL and has the same meaning as Chalal which means to Play the flute to steal your inheritance or to POLLUTE. The people POLLUTED the sabbath when they rose up in musical idolatry at Mount Sinai.
HERE IS ONE OF MANY MESSAGES FROM JESUS:
Jesus called the MEN who were like children or "boys" (Isaiah 3) who PIPED hoping to force people into singing or lamenting and dancing. Jesus considned all of the music and rhetoric to the marketplace or Agora.
In another (of several) example the glory of Jesus would not be shared with singers and instrument players He called hypocrites by pointing to Ezekiel 33.
The usually women minstrels believed that their "prophesying" meaning singing and playing instrument could praise or ASSIST the gods and the dead to make certain that her ghost did not punish them. The Levite Sorcerers also were exorcists used to chase out the demons as flies. All that Jesus did is ANTITHETICAL to the Jews and other pagans.
Matthew 9:23 And when Jesus came into the ruler’s house, and saw the minstrels and the people making a noise,
aul-ētēs , ou, ho, A.flute-player, Thgn. 941, Hdt.1.141, 6.60, 129, Ar.V.581, And.1.12, Pl.Prt.327b, OGI51.62 (iii B. C.); Boeot. auleitas IG7.3195 (Orchom. Boeot.).
II. kind of wasp, Hsch.
III. au. huponomōn sanitary engineer,
God always calls it NOISE: NOISE is “turbae carmina,” carmen I. In gen., a tune, song, air, lay, strain, note, sound, both vocal and instrumental modi [melody] citharāque [Apollyon's Harp] Apollinem) concordant carmina tuba citharae liquidum carmen “lyraecarmen,
“barbaricum, With allusion to playing on the cithara, 5. A magic formula, an incantation:
Speaking in tongues includes musical instruments so this was Paul's example of barbarians who could not be understood and needed a translator. He warned about Lifeless Instruments which were also Carnal Weapons. The Kingdom does not come with observations or religious rituals not devoted to the WORD: In this example, Jesus did not GO IN to do His Work until the singers and instrument players were CAST OUT.
Matthew 9:25 But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose.
ekballō cast out, more or less violently, cast out of the synagogue, exorcize, cast out evil spirits,
ONLY THEN DOES JESUS GET THE GLORY: the Pattern to glorify or praise God is to use one mind and one mouth to speak that which is written.
Matthew 9:26 And the fame hereof went abroad into all that land.
That example may not speak to some people: it has always spoken to churches of Christ
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Are you sure it's Psalm 150?
My Bible shows Psalm 150 saying this
1 Praise the Lord.[a]
Praise God in his sanctuary;
praise him in his mighty heavens.
2 Praise him for his acts of power;
praise him for his surpassing greatness.
3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.
6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.
Praise the Lord.
Psalms 150
1PraiseH1984 ye the LORDH3050. PraiseH1984 GodH410 in his sanctuaryH6944: praiseH1984 him in the firmamentH7549 of his powerH5797.
PRAISE H1984 hâlal haw-lal' A primitive root; to be clear (originally of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show; to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively to celebrate; also to stultify:—(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.
H1966 hêylêl hay-lale' From H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star:—lucifer. [Venus, Zoe and EVE in mother goddess worship.
No one could "praise" God in the sancturary in the sense of the Temple in Jerusalem. It was devoted to the "worship of the starry hosts" but David would be executed if he even went into the Holy Place (secular type of the church). That is proven in the fact that he ate the showbread and was excused because he was starving. The Firmament proves that he or someone was speaking of Sabazianism to which God abandoned Israel because of instrumental idolatry at Mount Sinai.
David was KING and the Levites were under the King and Commanders of the Army: they served Civil functions called prophesying with instruments which is defined as soothsaying or sorcery which words are used interchangeably in the texts. As noted, these instruments did not make music because tuneful meter was unknown and would have been rejected so we are told.
God did not command the King, Kingdom, Temple, Animal Sacrifices OR the Levites as religious musicians. Because they executed 3000 of the brethren because of instrumental idolatry they were commanded to STAND IN RANKS ready to execute any of the non-government people or even Levites when not on rare duty who came near any presumed "holy" thing or into any holy place or house. If you use the Levites as the pattern for singing and playing (those Jesus cast out so they didn't get the fame or glory), they must perform out in the parking lot and never enter into the podium. The podium is the HOLY PLACE in church architecture and not in the worst pagan religions musicians were forbidden in the cella which was, as proven by David's proposal, a house for God or gods.
1PraiseH1984 ye the LORDH3050. PraiseH1984 GodH410 in his sanctuaryH6944: praiseH1984 him in the firmamentH7549 of his powerH5797.
PRAISE H1984 hâlal haw-lal' A primitive root; to be clear (originally of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show; to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively to celebrate; also to stultify:—(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.
H1966 hêylêl hay-lale' From H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star:—lucifer. [Venus, Zoe and EVE in mother goddess worship.
No one could "praise" God in the sancturary in the sense of the Temple in Jerusalem. It was devoted to the "worship of the starry hosts" but David would be executed if he even went into the Holy Place (secular type of the church). That is proven in the fact that he ate the showbread and was excused because he was starving. The Firmament proves that he or someone was speaking of Sabazianism to which God abandoned Israel because of instrumental idolatry at Mount Sinai.
David was KING and the Levites were under the King and Commanders of the Army: they served Civil functions called prophesying with instruments which is defined as soothsaying or sorcery which words are used interchangeably in the texts. As noted, these instruments did not make music because tuneful meter was unknown and would have been rejected so we are told.
God did not command the King, Kingdom, Temple, Animal Sacrifices OR the Levites as religious musicians. Because they executed 3000 of the brethren because of instrumental idolatry they were commanded to STAND IN RANKS ready to execute any of the non-government people or even Levites when not on rare duty who came near any presumed "holy" thing or into any holy place or house. If you use the Levites as the pattern for singing and playing (those Jesus cast out so they didn't get the fame or glory), they must perform out in the parking lot and never enter into the podium. The podium is the HOLY PLACE in church architecture and not in the worst pagan religions musicians were forbidden in the cella which was, as proven by David's proposal, a house for God or gods.
In the begining the church did not have a cannon the bible was not set and it was mostly word of mouth that the gospel was set by witness of the apostles as the church goverment and top presbytery but only a few letters and epistles remain . Today we have a remnant of the original gospel to give us a good guideline but primarily the church was jewish so naturally they would worship the way they knew but because there is only fragments of a glimpse of the original gospel that is why the confusion , when one wants to serve we have to look from a spirit standview , but reality they are looking from flesh not discerning the truth in things , instruments are allowed but sin is abolished and hated with prejudice
The Church of Christ (the Rock) was defined as the synagogue, qahal or ekklesia. They were quarantined from the star worship in Jerusalem and were allowed to REST, Read and Rehearse the Word. That pattern changed in the New Testament in that Jesus freed us from the laded burdens and burden laders. A Church of Christ is a School of Christ in the Prophets and Apostles.
The Church of Christ if held properly does not need a CANNON. The Old Testament contains the good, bad and ugly. These historical accounts are to teach people how to avoid "religionism" because God created mankind to serve them: not to be served with rituals. Micah wrote by the Spirit of Christ:
Micah 6:6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
Micah 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
I can assure you that Christ in the Prophets (not required reading form most) defined HIS REST day both inclusively and exclusively. That includes the demand for baptism as a request for a pure spirit and as a MARK between the "believeths" (Pistis means to comply with what you believe) and the "believeth nots" (Apistos which means "I will not comply, rebellion and treachery). He defines the Law of Silence (Isaiah 57) which keeps everyone silent other than teaching the Word: those who do not teach the word (Dabar, Logos) are said to HAVE NO LIGHT IN THEM. Christ outlaws US from paying for the free water of the word. He warns about the musical mocking (Isaiah 50) and forbids "seeking our own pleasure or even speaking our own words" affirmed by Paul in romans 15.
Isaiah 58 - 59 shows that this is how to RESTORE THE PATHS ONCE WALKED IN. A Church of Christ is PROPHECIED in detail and Jesus made the Prophecies MORE CERTAIN. He added the Lord's supper to replace Passover (Easter, Ishtar) and the feast of unleavened bread and Paul shows that this is an added SHOWING FORTH or Teaching activity which will silence disciples from adding to what has been commanded.
It is a fact that scribes for hire would show up at every major gathering, record the event, and have men produce copies for sale before the ink got dry. These pericopes or "event accounts" were systematically collected and preserved. The elder's job was to make certain that written and oral accounts were transmitted. Because we have an Isaiah Scroll a hundred or two before the time of Christ, the church has all that it needs. The Apostles recorded the prophecies made more certain and men like Peter left a MEMORY for us not to be sold or further expounded.
The Church of Christ if held properly does not need a CANNON. The Old Testament contains the good, bad and ugly. These historical accounts are to teach people how to avoid "religionism" because God created mankind to serve them: not to be served with rituals. Micah wrote by the Spirit of Christ:
Micah 6:6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
Micah 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
I can assure you that Christ in the Prophets (not required reading form most) defined HIS REST day both inclusively and exclusively. That includes the demand for baptism as a request for a pure spirit and as a MARK between the "believeths" (Pistis means to comply with what you believe) and the "believeth nots" (Apistos which means "I will not comply, rebellion and treachery). He defines the Law of Silence (Isaiah 57) which keeps everyone silent other than teaching the Word: those who do not teach the word (Dabar, Logos) are said to HAVE NO LIGHT IN THEM. Christ outlaws US from paying for the free water of the word. He warns about the musical mocking (Isaiah 50) and forbids "seeking our own pleasure or even speaking our own words" affirmed by Paul in romans 15.
Isaiah 58 - 59 shows that this is how to RESTORE THE PATHS ONCE WALKED IN. A Church of Christ is PROPHECIED in detail and Jesus made the Prophecies MORE CERTAIN. He added the Lord's supper to replace Passover (Easter, Ishtar) and the feast of unleavened bread and Paul shows that this is an added SHOWING FORTH or Teaching activity which will silence disciples from adding to what has been commanded.
It is a fact that scribes for hire would show up at every major gathering, record the event, and have men produce copies for sale before the ink got dry. These pericopes or "event accounts" were systematically collected and preserved. The elder's job was to make certain that written and oral accounts were transmitted. Because we have an Isaiah Scroll a hundred or two before the time of Christ, the church has all that it needs. The Apostles recorded the prophecies made more certain and men like Peter left a MEMORY for us not to be sold or further expounded.
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The New Testament is very accurate as all scholars will tell you. There were thousands of copies to compare to each other to determine what was valid and what was not, and through this system of comparing copies, this has provided us with a highly accurate New Testament. God has told us that the bible is complete, so no need to worry about any inaccuracies or something being left out or added to, because God has delivered it to man himself and you and I can be assured that what we have to read is complete. Word of mouth back then was very accurate because of the need of having a way to send info was through word of mouth, and because of the need people were very accurate in remembering what somebody told them compared to today's society in which people cannot remember as well as they could back then because of the necessity of being able to remember like that was vital compared to today's society.
I meant to add this to the other reply I sent you. In regards to instruments is the fact that we have no commandments for their use, but we do have it for singing. If we ignore a commandment there's going to be consequences for doing that, so we need to comply to what God wants and not what man wants. Many people believe there's a commandment to be baptized but they don't look at it as a commandment to be done for a very good reason, and that it's essential to one's salvation. Until you come up out of the water you are not saved according to the bible. Mark 16:16 the first part says He that believeth AND IS baptized, so this AND IS represents the crucial factor in understanding that believing and baptism together are necessary in order to complete the command to believe and be baptized, not just believe, but both.
Well I pray for a revelation of Christ I understand your viewpoint but I acknowledge that if you truly seek him He will provide an escape to his righteous for it to be not a stumblingblock but an uplifting , when I was a young man I was in your churches but the Holy Ghost led me to learn true doctrine true religion as Christ giveth not I but He that is just He even speaks to me now and then I love him very much
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