Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?
- Thread starter Shava
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Ephesians 5:18-20 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit: Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
These verses have absolutely nothing to do with (corporate) worship, but rather describe our daily walk and how we are to be....
but be filled with the Spirit <---Is written in a present, passive, imperative form of the verb and shows a (continual) mode of action...
1. The passive aspect sets forth what it is that has caused them to be (continually filled) with the Spirit
2. The subordinate clauses as found in verses 19-20 are evidence of a continually filling of the Spirit and are...
1. Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs
2. Singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord
3. Giving thanks for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
These verses set forth a way of life and what God expects of us...to be continually filled with the Spirit and the evidence of a Spirit filled believer will be evidenced in their life by finding the 4 things listed above in their lives...
A good way to describe this is if you are working and humming biblical songs to yourself while going about your business and have absolutely noting to do with corporate worship!
These verses have absolutely nothing to do with (corporate) worship, but rather describe our daily walk and how we are to be....
but be filled with the Spirit <---Is written in a present, passive, imperative form of the verb and shows a (continual) mode of action...
1. The passive aspect sets forth what it is that has caused them to be (continually filled) with the Spirit
2. The subordinate clauses as found in verses 19-20 are evidence of a continually filling of the Spirit and are...
1. Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs
2. Singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord
3. Giving thanks for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
These verses set forth a way of life and what God expects of us...to be continually filled with the Spirit and the evidence of a Spirit filled believer will be evidenced in their life by finding the 4 things listed above in their lives...
A good way to describe this is if you are working and humming biblical songs to yourself while going about your business and have absolutely noting to do with corporate worship!
In these two passages the followers of God have in summary form, what worship in song is all about. First, it is worship because it is directed to God. Second, it is expressed orally through speaking. That speaking is done through singing a variety of kinds of songs, psalms, hymn, and spiritual songs. The melodies of those songs come from one’s heart. Third, this worship is done by the authority of Jesus Christ. Fourth, this worship is to come from a heart that is filled with thankfulness. Fifth, as a by-produce, those who participate are not only worshiping God, but they are also being edified, admonished, and strengthened as they worship. May each of us better understand the reason, purpose, and method of worshiping God in the songs that we sing. It is a wonderful way in which Christians can combine their efforts to offer to God acceptable worship, and at the same time gain personally from this effort.
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The burden of proof really rests on you to prove music doesn't go with singing in the NT.
In the OT music is associated with singing.
In the OT music is associated with Psalms.
In the NT we're encouraged to sing Psalms
In heaven music goes with singing.
We're told by Jesus to pray that things on Earth would be done as in heaven.
Everything points to music going with singing in the past, in the future, and now.
There is nothing to suggest a hair splitting command to separate music from singing for the NT.
It's a HUGE hair split where the burden to prove it rests on the one making such a claim.
In the OT music is associated with singing.
In the OT music is associated with Psalms.
In the NT we're encouraged to sing Psalms
In heaven music goes with singing.
We're told by Jesus to pray that things on Earth would be done as in heaven.
Everything points to music going with singing in the past, in the future, and now.
There is nothing to suggest a hair splitting command to separate music from singing for the NT.
It's a HUGE hair split where the burden to prove it rests on the one making such a claim.
J
Shava, does your bible give any reason as to why God changed his mind about how He would like to be worshipped through song? I'm sure if it was such an important life or death issue we could be told why...
From the scriptures please, if there is anything. If there are no scriptures as to the reason we aren't allowed instruments, why would that be? You say it is one of the key salvation issues that exist afterall. There would be a logical reason for it if it was true.
From the scriptures please, if there is anything. If there are no scriptures as to the reason we aren't allowed instruments, why would that be? You say it is one of the key salvation issues that exist afterall. There would be a logical reason for it if it was true.
I do what I do for me to learn all that I can in regards to this particular subject in which you feel I have argued my point to death, , but I do it to know more on it, and obviously I haven't felt that I've reached that plateau yet, but if you wish I will be sure to let you know when I have reached that plateau.
The OP is an argument from the negative. Just because there are no specific references to instruments, doesn't mean God forbids it. Musical instruments in NT times were probably scarce, as people met in homes to worship. Maybe finding a lute player was tough.
King David was a king, and had access to the best musicians in the Kingdom of Israel. So he used them, and the singers to worship God. In fact, there is a consistent pattern of using music to come before God in the Old Testament, to prepare the hearts of the worshipers.
Really, the Bible says very little on the worship practices of either the Hebrew or Gentile believers. The great thing about singing, is that you can do it anywhere! Of course, I also take my flute into the woods on retreats and praise God in his creation, besides playing in church.
Such negative legalism. Yet God has not yet struck me down for playing flute in church. Strange how that works? Or does the CoC cult believe you lose your salvation for listening to/playing instruments in church? It's gonna be a big surprise for them on Judgment Day, when the trumpet sounds!
"in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." 1 Cor. 15:52
"And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matt 24:31
I guess it is just lucky those angels get to practice for the Second Coming of Jesus. Will your CoC members be able to hear it, or will they just walk away because a trumpet is an instrument?
King David was a king, and had access to the best musicians in the Kingdom of Israel. So he used them, and the singers to worship God. In fact, there is a consistent pattern of using music to come before God in the Old Testament, to prepare the hearts of the worshipers.
Really, the Bible says very little on the worship practices of either the Hebrew or Gentile believers. The great thing about singing, is that you can do it anywhere! Of course, I also take my flute into the woods on retreats and praise God in his creation, besides playing in church.
Such negative legalism. Yet God has not yet struck me down for playing flute in church. Strange how that works? Or does the CoC cult believe you lose your salvation for listening to/playing instruments in church? It's gonna be a big surprise for them on Judgment Day, when the trumpet sounds!
"in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed." 1 Cor. 15:52
"And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." Matt 24:31
I guess it is just lucky those angels get to practice for the Second Coming of Jesus. Will your CoC members be able to hear it, or will they just walk away because a trumpet is an instrument?
The reason instruments are not allowed is the simple fact he has given us COMMANDS on how he wants us to worship him, that's the reason. Ephesians 5"19 and Collisions 3:16 are there for a reason, that being to affirm us in singing only in N.T. times. That's the reason it's always been singing up til about twenty years ago is when this all started.
Maybe that was one of the reasons why he decided in not using instruments as what you have said, because they were probably scarce and people couldn't afford them Maybe that was one of his reasons for singing like you said, you don't need anything but your mouth, thank you for answering my question on possibilities on why he decided to go with singing only, makes complete sense.
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