Churches of Christ with or without instruments, which is the right way to worship?

[posthuman]

Halal which means "to make yourself vile" because David was a king and not a priest and the Levites as soothsayer-sorcerers were under DAVID and the commanders of the army: they made war and not music.

you are just

SO
FULL
of
LIES!

Hallel means "praise"

Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions

הלל

1. to shine

a. (Qal) to shine (fig. of God's favour) ​

b. (Hiphil) to flash forth light ​

2. to praise, boast, be boastful

a. (Qal) ​

1. to be boastful ​

2. boastful ones, boasters (participle) ​

b. (Piel) ​

1. to praise
2. to boast, make a boast ​

c. (Pual) ​

1. to be praised, be made praiseworthy, be commended, be worthy of praise ​

d. (Hithpael) to boast, glory, make one's boast
e. (Poel) to make a fool of, make into a fool
f. (Hithpoel) to act madly, act like a madman


​

we've heard plenty of your deceit, confusion and falsehood --

now (re: post #737) tell me about how you rejoice in the Lord!

 

[KSublett]

Don't fool around with McGuffy's Resources! Remember David's dirty dances: it's ok for you to use this as PATTERNISM. David had been abandoned to be the KING of a nation turned over to worship the starry host.

Psalm 73:3 3For I was enviousH7065 at the foolishH1984, when I sawH7200 the prosperityH7965 of the wickedH7563.

 

[KSublett]

H1984 hâlal haw-lal' A primitive root; to be clear (originally of sound, but usually of color); to shine; hence to make a show; to boast; and thus to be (clamorously) foolish; to rave; causatively to celebrate; also to stultify:—(make) boast (self), celebrate, commend, (deal, make), fool (-ish, -ly), glory, give [light], be (make, feign self) mad (against), give in marriage, [sing, be worthy of] praise, rage, renowned, shine.

 

[KSublett]

Stephen said that the FATAL SIN WITHOUT REDEMPTION at Mount Sinai is that the rose up to PLAY and rejoice in the WORKS OF THEIR OWN HANDS. We have shown over and over from Exodus 32 and 1 Corinthians 10 PLAY meant that they played musical instruments which resulted in playing with one another.

http://www.piney.com/Romans.1.html

1Thessalonians 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
1Thessalonians 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

1 Thessalonians 5.16 alla pantote to agathon diōkete eis allēlous kai eis pantas. Pantote khairete,

khairō , Il.7.191, etc.; 3pl. imper. 1. c. dat. rei, rejoice at, take pleasure in a thing, 3. c. part., khairō . . ton muthon akousas I rejoice at having heard, am glad to hear1. at meeting, hail, welcome (esp. in the morning,

gaudĕo , rejoice, be glad or joyful respecting any thing, to take pleasure in, be pleased with, delight in (of inward joy, OPPOSITE. laetari, to show one's self glad, exhibit joy;

Here is the rejoicing that you seem to be stuck with: God slaps strong delusions without hesitation to those who GLADLY RECEIVE His Word and are baptized to receive A holy spirit. That is because neither Jesus nor ANY of His disciples are OF THIS WORLD. That means that they are strangers and soujourners or LOST SPIRITS. They reject the Word as a MARK that they are OF THE WORLD and maybe do not have the ability to COME BEFORE HIM IN SILENCE.

"We know that all of the Israelites brought Egyptian gods and practices with them and it is not far-fetched to think that Miriam, who had not yet been exposed to the Covenant, was part of the consciousness-altering rhythms and which was part of a priestly myth-play brought to destructive consummation at Mount Sinai as the golden calf was called back into action.

This "rising up to play" involved eating, drinking, nakedness and musical worship. The goddess, Hathor, is the best candidate for the Mother Goddess of the Mount Sinai idolatry. Here priestessess or prophetesses were highly trained with musical instruments, cultic songs and be able to join in the religious dance.
​

"Music and drugs were co-consiprators in religious ecstasy. They may have used some product of the sycamore fig which both intoxicated and induced an altered state of consciousness. The ergo of barley was well known.
"On the other hand, other sources, specifically relating to the customs of the East, refer to the dance as a slow, grave, and solemn gesture, generally accompanied with singing and the sound of the timbrel!

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).
"In the New Testament there is nowhere any emphasis laid on the musical form of the hymns; and in particular none on instrumental accompaniment whereas this is significantly paganism." (Delling, Gerhard, Worship in the New Testament, trans. Percy Scott Phil. Westminster press, 1962, p. 86).


​

 

[MsLimpet]

Lol to all of your posts!!

 

[presidente]

Not really, there are only 57 Mizmors Paul would understand as Psalms. The BOOK of Psalms contains at least 4 types of POETIC material: #150 is a Halal which means "to make yourself vile"

Where do you get that? It doesn't mean that when I look it up. The root shows up in "Hallelujah." Saying that is not to declare the Lord vile.

You seem to be taking a kind of 'etymological conspiracy theory' approach to the Bible. It seems like you ignore what the actual text says, and instead decode what it is really saying by using your strange twist on the etymology of words.

because David was a king and not a priest

You should consider the prophetic implications of the Melchizedek passage. David was king in Jerusalem.

and the Levites as soothsayer-sorcerers were under DAVID

More nonsense. You come up with your theories by ignoring the immediate context about the Levites, using some verse in some other context centuries later, and add in some misuse of the etymologies of Greek words. That stuff might sell on a cable network. Maybe you can take over for the Shepherd's Chapel guy.

The command is to SPEAK that which is written for our LEARNING and Paul compares tongues to lifeless instruments neither of which can TEACH and he therefore silenced the EVERYONE

Clearly false (the silenced part) from reading the passage. The interpretation of tongues does edify. Paul specifically allows speaking in tongues with interpretation. Paul does not silence the 'everyone' but instructs that all things be done unto edifying.

and limited the prophesying to any Apostle-Ordained prophet:

False. There is no indication anywhere in scripture that prophets had to be ordained by apostles. Apostles didn't even have to be ordained by apostles if we look at Paul's example. We do know that Christ ascended and gave gifts, including apostles, to the church.

We also see that Paul said to let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. This implies that there were indeed prophets in the church. He also says 'for ye may all prophesy one by one' which allows others to prophesy as well.

there was not one in Corinth and that is why Paul said "Your assemblies do more harm than good."

You make jump up again. Paul wrote that the assemblies did more harm than good because of how they ate together.

Nor does the text imply that there was no prophet in Corinth. Paul wrote that the Corinthians came behind in no spiritual gift waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (I Corinthians 1:7). Prophecy is listed among the spiritual gifts in that book.

So pity anyone who would use that which Paul condemned as a PATTERN.

Pity the one who would condemn what Paul calls the 'commandments of the Lord'. Such a man should not be regarded as spiritual.

The problem with proof text is that it proves that they do not understand that from the Wilderness onward the Church of Christ (the ROCK) had a two piece pattern never changed even by Jesus:

The pattern, or rather, actually commandments of the Lord in the passage make sense in studying the context. We aren't talking about one-verse profftexts.

But I'd rather see someone use a prooftext than these bizaar insane-sounding ramblings of yours. It reminds me of the movie 'A beautiful mind' where the deluded Nash thought he was decoded messages in letters in magazines. Instead of letters in magazines, you are focuses on a word or two here of a Strong's concordance gloss, a phrase here and there out of pagan literature or commentaries about paganism, and then a verse or two here and there taken out of context. You bring them all together to some sort of argument that makes a lot more sense to you than to others, because you aren't quite connecting the tenuous dots. Please don't be deceived into thinking your reasoning comes from the Holy Spirit. Have you ever had someone from your own movement tell you that your ideas are ramblings or insane musings? It's hard to understand what you are saying, so some people may think you are highly educated and it just goes over their heads, but if someone really tries to read what you are saying, it's a bunch of irrational nonsense. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that, if a thousand others haven't already. But you should know it and pray about it. Just lay all this stuff down, all these ideas down, give them to the Lord, and ask the Lord to give you peace and a sound mind.

All such religious operatives such as Miriam, the Levites and all religious musicians are called PARASITES.

And you slander the people in the Old Testament. Miriam, David. You seem to think you seem to know better than the actual text of scripture which David and others wrote, rejecting the literal message in favor of the patterns you see in Greek glossaries, pagan writings, commentaries on pagan writings, and scriptures you apply to the wrong contexts.

Moses promised another "prophet" like him as our last warning:

1Corinthians 10:6 Now these things were our examples,
..... to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
1Corinthians 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written,
.....he people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

Paizō 4. play on a musical instrument, h.Ap.206: c. acc., “Pan ho kalamo [flute]phthogga paizōn” Ar.Ra.230; dance and sing, Pi. O.1.16. 5. play amorously, “pros allēlous”

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).
​

I notice you ignore the 'amorously' aspect of the glossary. And the fact that the next verse warns against fornication.

But if you will notice, the warning is against being idolaters, not doing what 150 commanded and praising the Lord with instruments.

I have shown where Romans 14 OUTLAWS all of the diversities so that EDIFICATION which means EDUCATION is possible. If you don't know that the purpose of the assembly is ONLY for education, then you probably do not know the meaning of a DISCIPLE and that excludes you from being a CHRISTIIAN.

As a disciple of Christ, I know better than to follow these weird ideas of yours. IN a previous post, you considered exposition to be private interpretation. Is that what you are engaging in, by your own definitions?

Edification involves building up. It can be done without 'education' as in the one who prays in tongues alone. But in the church, others must understand so they can be edified through their understanding. (Hence, the instructions that messages in tongues be interpreted.)

JESUS COMMANDED THAT WE TEACH WHAT HE COMMANDED TO BE TAUGHT: He was musically mocked as prophesied and did not Command, Example or Remotely infer any performance music in HIS Assembly.

Jesus said, "I have piped unto you and ye have not danced" something he wouldn't have said if He thought like you do. And Hebrews applied, "in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto Thee" to Christ.

​

 

[presidente]

KSublett, Your posts remind me of the atheist who believed in Torah codes, but didn't believe in God. He theorized that aliens put the codes into the Bible. But he didn't make the connection between the amazing patterns he thought he found in the code and the actual text of the book he was finding him in. Instead of considering that the actual words on the page were inspired and that he needed to follow them, he concocted a weird theory that did not appreciate what the Bible actually says.

This is the kind of like what you are doing. Most of us who read Psalm 150 conclude that it is saying to praise the LORD with musical instruments. Instead of doing that, you concoct a weird theory based on the meanings of Greek words and the opinions of commentators on the meanings of words.

If we actually read scripture, we see a scripture that tells us how David followed the Lord, except in the case of Uriah the Hittitue. But much more important than that to you is this theory you interpret the Bible through the Bible and a set of language dictionaries and commentaries contain a secret code you are smart enough to figure out that really shows us that David was an idolator. The problem is, just reading the text of scripture about David and reading the Psalms, we see your theory is false.

If we talk to just about anyone else who goes to a church building every week with 'Church of Christ' on the sign out front, and they don't play instruments in there, and if we show them Psalm 150, they will say that was for the Old Testament, or for a specific context. I'm pretty sure no one else in the whole movement will construct an argument like you have about David leading an idolatrous nation. Generally, they have too much respect for what the text actually says when they read it to concoct such a weird and elaborate story.

Also, you need to keep in mind how much guesswork goes into this whole etymology thing. That thing you quoted about hallel coming from 'ellellellelle' in Egypt is just a theory. There is no way to prove something like that. There may be a way to debunk it. I've heard that kind of cry, and to say they get a word out of that sound called Hallel seems pretty far fetched to me. I'm pretty sure the Egyptian sound is 'lelelele' with 'e' substituting for a schwa sound. The 'l' sound, if it can be classified as an 'l' is not a two morii double l sound like you'd hear in Arabic, which is what Egyptians probably spoke when your commentator wrote that commentary.

Also, if he's basing his theory about the etymology of the Hebrew word on what modern Egyptian women cry out as a kind of cheer, then he needs to take into account that the lingua franca of the country has indeed changed to Arabaic, and we don't know if the Ancient Egyptians cry out such things.

I would also be interested in reading your source. There are plenty of books out there full of bunk folk etymologies, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was one of them. The Sacred Name Movement has some pretty shoddy junk etymology backing up a lot of their arguments. Is this the non-instrumentalist's version of a shoddy etymology book?

I studied some of this stuff in college. I also correspond with a Greek professor who likewise points out how shaky some of the guesswork is in etymology. A lot of it presumes the existence of a proto-language from which a number of other languages evolved, in this case, Hebrew, Aramaic, Arabic, Akkadian, etc. deriving from Proto-Semitic. We don't know if that is really the case. If Adam spoke Hebrew, it isn't. There could have been a proto-Semitic given at Babel as far as we know, or God could have created separate languages with cognates that would appear to descend from a common protolanguage to later Linguists.

 

[posthuman]

this is like "training day for spotting false teachers" where an obvious example displaying every kind of deceit, lie & confusion is shown to the class.

take notes, lol, there will be a quiz.

 

[posthuman]

Here is the rejoicing that you seem to be stuck with

amen!
i am SO GLAD to be "stuck with" rejoicing!
His lovingkindness is everlasting!!!

i hope you can see your way to some thankfulness & gladness of heart too

 

[KSublett]

Jesus said, "Ihave piped unto you and ye have not danced" something he wouldn't have said if He thought like you do. And Hebrews applied, "in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto Thee" to Christ.

Just one for tonight: If you are saying that Jesus PIPED then you are still preaching out of a topical Bible. They wanted to INITIATE Jesus into the gay brotherhood of Dionysus which they HOPED would be their Messiah according to recorded history.

Matthew 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Matthew 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken [the MEN] this generation?
It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Matthew 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.

Matthew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

He means "you are liars."

Matthew 11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:

-Isaiah III.1 For, behold, the Lord, Yahweh of Hosts, takes away from Jerusalem and from Judah supply and support, The whole supply of bread, And the whole supply of water; [2] The mighty man, The man of war, The judge, The prophet, The diviner [I.a soothsayer, prophet, prophetess], The elder, [3] The captain of fifty, The honorable man, The counselor, The skilled craftsman, And the clever enchanter. [4] I will give boys to be their princes, And children shall rule over them

Craftsmen (sorcerers in Revelation 18) to be cast alive into the Lake of Fire.
sophos , ē, on, mantis” Id.Th.382; “oiōnothetas” S.OT484 Margites [Magi] Fr.2; but in this sense mostly of poets and musicians, Pi.O.1.9, P.1.42, 3.113; en kithara s.
also en oiōnois,kithara, E. IT662, 1238 (lyr.); [guitar players]

Jesus said that God HIDES from the wise or SOPHISTS.
​

Propheta and prŏphētes , ae, m., = prophêtês, I. a foreteller, soothsayer, prophet
Hariolus I. a soothsayer, prophet, prophetess Chresmodotes one who gives oracles,

-Elŏquĭum , ii, n. id.. I. In Aug. poets, and their imitators among prose writers, for eloquentia, eloquence, *
II. In late Lat., declaration, communication in gen., Diom. p. 413 P.; Mamert. Pan. Maxim. 9: “eloquia pulchritudinis,” fine words, Vulg. Gen. 49, 21; id. Prov. 4, 20 al used with Ignis. [fire starters or civil war starters SOWING OF DISCORD]
​

Boys: Effemino II.Trop., to make womanish, effeminate, to enervate, A.Womanish, effeminate,
Histrio, stage-player, actor, mimus, boaster, used with
-Scaena, 1. Of a place like a scene of a theatre, school of rhetoric, display of eloquence.

Jesus said that the MEN of that viper race had become CHILDREN or BOYS: He consigned them to the marketplace or Agora with all of the speakers, singers, bad women, instrument players, pagan temples and selllers of radish.

B. In mal. part., that submits to unnatural lust: pathicus, Cinaedos: a sodomite, catamite, one who dances publicly

 

[presidente]

KSublett,

Btw, I made a mistake. The saying Jesus quoted was 'We have piped unto you and you have not danced." I have no idea how you arrived at your 'gay' conclusion from the bunch of stuff you quoted.

I'm assuming you think of prophets as soothsayers. The same Greek word was used for those who claimed to speak for false gods as was used for prophets who spoke by inspiration for the true God. But true prophets aren't soothsayers. Your Greek dictionary definitions aren't inspired, and they don't trump scripture.

 

[KSublett]

I AM SO VERY SORRY THAT THE PREACHERS WITH NO ROLE AND NO DOLE MISSED ACTS 7 EXPLAINING AMOS AND ALL OF THE PROPHETS.

"The triumphal hymn of Moses had unquestionably a religious character about it; but the employment of music in religious services, though idolatrous, is more distinctly marked in the festivities which attended the erection of the golden calf." (Smith's Bible Dictionary, Music, p. 589).

Acts 7:41 And they made a calf in those days,
and offered sacrifice unto the idol,
and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

Euphrainō , Ep. euphr-, fut. Att.155.12, Pi.I.7(6).3

PINDAR DEFINES LYING WONDERS.

Pind. I. 6 Just as we mix the second bowl of wine when the men's symposium is flourishing, here is the second song of the Muses for Lampon's children and their athletic victories: first in Nemea, Zeus, in your honor they received the choicest of garlands,

This is the Crooked Race we are warned to save ourselves FROM.

Pind. I. 7 In which of the local glories of the past, divinely blessed Thebe, did you most delight your spirit? Was it when you raised to eminence the one seated beside Demeter of the clashing bronze cymbals, flowing-haired [5] Dionysus? Or when you received, as a snow-shower of gold in the middle of the night, the greatest of the gods, when he stood in the doorway of Amphitryon, and then went in to the wife to beget Heracles?

But since ancient grace sleeps, and mortals are forgetful of whatever does not reach the highest bloom of skillful song, joined to glorious streams of words, [20] then begin the victory procession with a sweet-singing hymn for Strepsiades;

Aristoph. Ach. 5 I was in ecstasy and I love the Knights for this deed; ‘it is an honour to Greece.’ But the day when I was impatiently awaiting a piece by Aeschylus, what tragic despair it caused me when the herald called, “Theognis, introduce your Chorus!” Just imagine how this blow struck straight at my heart! [twanged my heart string]

Xen. Sym. 7.5 However, these questions also fail to promote the same object that wine does; but if the young people were to have a flute accompaniment and dance figures depicting the Graces, the Horae, and the Nymphs, I believe that they would be far less wearied themselves and that the charms of the banquet would be greatly enhanced.”
“Upon my word, Socrates,” replied the Syracusan, “you are quite right; and I will bring in a spectacle that will delight you.”

Acts 7:42 Then God turned,
and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;
as it is written in the book of the prophets,
O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices
by the space of forty years in the wilderness?

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch,
and the star of your god Remphan,
figures which ye made to worship them:
and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

I suppose Stephen was a LIAR ALSO? Well, at least I haven't yet been physically assualted for saying with Moses and Amos that God GAVE THEM UP TO BABYLONIANISM including burning infants in the arms of their chief BURNING God Moloch.

 

[posthuman]

David was a king and worshipped the starry host. That's why he wanted to MAKE SELF VILE in the firmament.

So it was until the days of David, who found favor in the sight of God
(Acts 7:45-46)

one of these two statements must be a lie.

 

[presidente]

KSublett,

I am not quite sure what the point of your last post was. I think the issue is, you draw conclusions other people don't from the same set of information. My guess is that you think because pagans enjoyed instrumental accompaniment with singing, that it is therefore pagan, evil, and forbidden, and that your last post was supposed to demonstrate that instrumental accompaniment is evil.

But this is an illogical and unbiblical premise. I could dig up quotes about pagans drinking water and show you an entire page of definitions with a tiny portion of the page being about the Greek word for water (without telling you what part of the page I was interested in, like you do.) Then I could leave you to assume I was arguing that drinking water is pagan. If you guessed right, you might have a clue what my illogical conclusion was. That's what you are doing with instruments.

Revelation shows us that there were the sounds of harps in heaven. David served the Lord, but erred in the matter of Uriah. And He praised God with the harp, that man after God's own heart. The Psalms commanded to praise the Lord with various instruments, and from the Psalms we know that this is good.

Like drinking water, using the harp is not inherently evil. A thousand quotes about pagans playing musical instruments does not disprove that.

Usually the debate over this issue turns into one of whether if the Bible does not command something for church meetings, that thing is forbidden, and why those who answer 'yes' do things that aren't in the Bible. In this case, you are arguing against things the Bible commands or presents as good, using quotes about Greek and pagan sources, along with bad logic, to try to make your case.

 

[homwardbound]

I asked for a book in the NT since that is what law we are under today!

1 Corinthians 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.
Revelation 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

Motive Sister is what God knows and God reveals, the reason in everyone of us is to be revealed and God chooses who are his and who are not, even if they play an instrument/ Motive is entering or not no matter how ones flesh performs

 

[homwardbound]

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Hebrews 12:19 and the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

 

[homwardbound]

I believe singing is the purest form of praise we can give to our Father. Instruments to me interfere with the pure spiritual connection between God and his creation, because God created man, and man created instruments. So this would be my feelings on why possibly God desired singing only.

What would be wrong with the accompanying of instrument would be wrong motive just the same as without you think?

 

[homwardbound]

Old Testament Scriptures.

Do you not see that the two go together the first and the second
The First is like a Giant and the second is as a midget, Side by side one sees further down the road than the other
Put the Second, (midget) on top of the Giant (first) guess what one can see all the way home from here on earth Spiritually

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, I am born again. How is one born again?

John 3:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Okay, belief in God's finished work for us by the death of Christ then comes the gift the new life in the resurrected Christ, was is only born again from God a gift to all that believe period

 

[KSublett]

So it was until the days of David, who found favor in the sight of God
(Acts 7:45-46)

one of these two statements must be a lie.

Acts 7:40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us GODS to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
Acts 7:41 And they made a calf in those days,
and offered sacrifice unto the idol,
and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
Acts 7:42 Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;
as it is written in the book of the prophets,
O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts
and sacrifices by the space of forty years in the wilderness?
......
The Israelites who were defacto Egyptians saved by grace through WHEN they were baptized unto Moses. They rejoiced in the works of THEIR HANDS which is the PATTERN for Rhetoricians, singers, instrument players, actors, craftsmen or STAFF. On the penalty of the Lake of Fire deny that what you call CHURCH (Kirke) did not work their little hearts out REFUSING to perform the ONE PIECE PATTERN of PREACHING the WORD (LOGOS) by READING the Word for Comfort and Doctrine. Besides that you EXTORTED money in the words of Paul by PERFORMING the Legalistic Act of threatening everyone into GIVING YOU their health care money Christ told them NOT to do in Isaiah 55.

Acts 7:43 Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch,
...... and the star of your god Remphan,
......figures which ye made to worship them:
......and I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

John says that God will cast all of the Craftsmen (sophists) including rhetoricians, singers and instrument players he called SORCERERS Alive into the Lake of Fire. It may have begun with people being CONSUMED with the breath (spirit) of their own mouth.

The Tabernacle was a place to WITNESS God's presence to unify the tribes; it was NOT a house of worship and even a Jacob-cursed and God-abandoned Levite who went NEAR or INTO any 'holy' or off-limits place was to be EXECUTED by their brethren. That is what God commanded in 2 Chronicles 29 as the PATTERN stealers of church properties and breaking up families claim that "a" spirit commanded them to GO AND DO LIKEWISE. I have no doubt that "a" spirit guided them beyond the sacred pages because the Latin SPIRITUS points directly to the spirit of Abaddon or Apollyon as the LEADER of the muses or "musical worship teams" with or without "machines for doing hard work."

Acts 7:44 Our fathers had the tabernacle of witness in the wilderness, as he had appointed,
......speaking unto Moses, that he should make it
......according to the fashion [PATTERN] that he had seen.
Acts 7:45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in
......with Jesus [Joshua or Yahweh's Saviour] into the possession of the Gentiles,
......whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

David sinned beyond normal redemption by doing an "attendance count" which meant that he intended keeping a STANDING ARMY (Staff Infection) after they had finished confiscating other people's property. However, NOT because as David says in Psalm 151 that he was PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS but by pure grace as a SEED path for Messiah.

Acts 7:46 Who found favour [kharin Grace] before God, and DESIRED to
......find a TABERNACLE for the God of Jacob.
Acts 7:47 BUT Solomon built him an house.

God promised David a TENT or FAMILY but David fleeced all of the crushed enemies to collect the money for SOLOMON. Instead of killing David God gave him an old Jebusite High Place already operating for Worship of the Starry Host. This was an alternative altar because David was too frightened to go to Gibeon to enquire of God: he saw it like a garden of Eden guarded to keep him out by flaming swords.

Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Acts 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool:
......what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Acts 7:50 Hath not MY HANDS made all these things?
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears,
......ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted?
......and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One;
......of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
Acts 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.