Clairity on concepts: Adultery

[JGPS]

Then why would Jesus say that if you even look at a woman ( or man) with sexual intent. That you have already committed adultery in your heart.

Because of Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21. Matt 5:27 says he was expounding on those verses (or rather those sections of scripture, specifically Deut 5:18 and Exodus 20:14).

It does not say 'or man'. It's important to be careful not to add to scripture.

It also does not say 'with sexual intent'. Please refer to this thread to understand lust better. Sexual intent would be lust in this case, but the problem with lust is bigger than that, and its important not to downplay it just to sexual attraction. As I said in that thread

You can lust after your neighbours wife by seeing how good a cook she is and wishing she could cook for you every day like she does for him and being envious of him for having her good cooking.

Lust is in the wanting of something you cannot or should not have.

Anyway, Jesus says that those that look on a woman to lust after her commit adultery in their heart because its a true statement. Looking at another mans woman and wanting her is just that. She is his, you cannot have her so you are not allowed to want her. It is covetous, it is sin, it is no small thing but a serious problem. From the heart comes the actions, so one must stop such things in the heart.

You cannot however commit adultery with an unmarried woman. It is an absurdity. If you look at and want (lust after) a single woman you can court and marry you are not commiting adultery in your heart. You are not wanting to take her away from anyone, there is no sin in it. In fact it is quite a good thing, as a man who seeks marriage should actively seek out an available woman and want her. His want should make him marry her, and so they have a family and so on.

 

[justamazed]

Then why would Jesus say that if you even look at a woman ( or man) with sexual intent. That you have already committed adultery in your heart.

Job 31:1-15

31*I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

2*For what portion of God is there from above? and what inheritance of the Almighty from on high?

3*Is not destruction to the wicked? and a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity?

4*Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?

5*If I have walked with vanity, or if my foot hath hasted to deceit;

6*Let me be weighed in an even balance that God may know mine integrity.

7*If my step hath turned out of the way, and mine heart walked after mine eyes, and if any blot hath cleaved to mine hands;

8*Then let me sow, and let another eat; yea, let my offspring be rooted out.

9*If mine heart have been deceived by a woman, or if I have laid wait at my neighbour's door;

10*Then let my wife grind unto another, and let others bow down upon her.

11*For this is an heinous crime; yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges.

12*For it is a fire that consumeth to destruction, and would root out all mine increase.

13*If I did despise the cause of my manservant or of my maidservant, when they contended with me;

14*What then shall I do when God riseth up? and when he visiteth, what shall I answer him?

15*Did not he that made me in the womb make him? and did not one fashion us in the womb?

 

[Hungry]

JGPS, I'm sure you are the smartest person you know. You are reluctant to yield to anyone else's understanding or sensibility. Sure you did your homework in trying to justify your lifestyle. You love women, plain and simple. You have made a great case for yourself. It is not knowledge Jesus will question of you it is love. You pridefully oppose those who disagree with you. The leaders of Jesus day thought they were right all of the time too. I'm sure they found enough scripture to "justify" their acts. Before I start I already know this was a reference to eating meat sacrificed to idols but the message is universal. Just because something is lawful does not make it beneficial. If your lifestyle causes a brother to stumble should you defend it so vigorously, debating and insulting. I also know this wasn't a direct use for polygamy but I fear you are putting new wine in old wineskins. If you want to tear apart my post line by line defending your points feel free I'm done with this thread I won't respond to any of it. Let me leave you with this. I'm sure you are familiar with the young rich man who approached Christ and inquired what he should do to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. He kept all of the commandments and tithed. Jesus asked him to give everything to the needy and follow Him. He walked away because he valued his possessions more than Christ. Even your avatar shows what you really value and your lack of patience with God's people reveals your heart. I'm not trying to be mean or judgmental I'm genuinely concerned. Take it or leave it. Hopefully you at least think about it.

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Because of Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21. Matt 5:27 says he was expounding on those verses (or rather those sections of scripture, specifically Deut 5:18 and Exodus 20:14).

It does not say 'or man'. It's important to be careful not to add to scripture.

It also does not say 'with sexual intent'. Please refer to this thread to understand lust better. Sexual intent would be lust in this case, but the problem with lust is bigger than that, and its important not to downplay it just to sexual attraction. As I said in that thread



Lust is in the wanting of something you cannot or should not have.

Anyway, Jesus says that those that look on a woman to lust after her commit adultery in their heart because its a true statement. Looking at another mans woman and wanting her is just that. She is his, you cannot have her so you are not allowed to want her. It is covetous, it is sin, it is no small thing but a serious problem. From the heart comes the actions, so one must stop such things in the heart.

You cannot however commit adultery with an unmarried woman. It is an absurdity. If you look at and want (lust after) a single woman you can court and marry you are not committing adultery in your heart. You are not wanting to take her away from anyone, there is no sin in it. In fact it is quite a good thing, as a man who seeks marriage should actively seek out an available woman and want her. His want should make him marry her, and so they have a family and so on.

I am a married man, so if I look at Beyonce or the models of victoria secret with lust. Have I committed adultery. yes. Know if I see a woman that is attractive and say you are a beautiful girl and not lust then there is nothing wrong with that. It's when we look and keep looking and imagine what we could do with that. Now if you are not married and you see something that raises your eye. Then there is nothing wrong with talking to that person and asking them for a date. I see nothing wrong with that. But, if you are married, Then that is adultery.

 

[JGPS]

JGPS, I'm sure you are the smartest person you know. You are reluctant to yield to anyone else's understanding or sensibility.

I will not yeild to irrational ism and anti scripture emotionalism. I suppose that is my problem with me.

Sure you did your homework in trying to justify your lifestyle.

I did my homework to choose my lifestyle.

You love women, plain and simple. You have made a great case for yourself.

Absolutely. I love family more though.

It is not knowledge Jesus will question of you it is love.

Aye. And foolishness will cause destruction, not love. You must know what someone needs in order to do the loving thing for them.

You pridefully oppose those who disagree with you.

You pridefully oppose me. Your posts are prideful because they are full of empty words trying to puff up your case. I bluntly oppose those that disagree with me, and present scripture, history, and reason to support my case.

The leaders of Jesus day thought they were right all of the time too.

You also think you're right... That is a horrible non case.

I'm sure they found enough scripture to "justify" their acts. Before I start I already know this was a reference to eating meat sacrificed to idols but the message is universal.

Ah, treading with over applying something?

Just because something is lawful does not make it beneficial.

That's a non argument. Unless you're going to post content on your proposed idea of harm all you're doing is speaking wind.

If your lifestyle causes a brother to stumble should you defend it so vigorously, debating and insulting.

The traditional view of marriage causes a great deal of stumbling. Converts have been forced to unjustly leave their wives, many men have been given leave to abandon women they slept with on the grounds of already being married. The traditional view heaps sin on sin. Thus the Biblical view needs to be defended vigorously.

I also know this wasn't a direct use for polygamy but I fear you are putting new wine in old wineskins.

That is a rather poor use of that scripture, and you know it. But you feel it is fair to use scripture like that then:

Luk 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

The old is indeed better.

If you want to tear apart my post line by line defending your points feel free I'm done with this thread I won't respond to any of it.

Already backing out. How fragile is your faith if you can't sit and defend a topic like this? You ought to be ashamed for posting so aggressively yet coming here with almost no scripture to back you. If you behave like that you're a cultural Christian, not a scriptural one. Not one who's mind is on the Kingdom of Heaven.

Let me leave you with this. I'm sure you are familiar with the young rich man who approached Christ and inquired what he should do to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. He kept all of the commandments and tithed. Jesus asked him to give everything to the needy and follow Him. He walked away because he valued his possessions more than Christ.

Then leave your presuppositions behind and start thinking about what scripture actually has to say about these topics.

Even your avatar shows what you really value and your lack of patience with God's people reveals your heart. I'm not trying to be mean or judgmental I'm genuinely concerned. Take it or leave it. Hopefully you at least think about it.

My avatar is that of Biblical Families. I do value the work they've done, it is important.

You should consider things before condemning, and argue scripture with scripture, not scripture with your culture and idioms. Referencing a great deal of unrelated scripture, such as that of the rich young ruler, is also in poor form.

Come, discuss, learn. Let iron sharpen iron. Learn more about scripture by discussing it.

Or if you really must back down as you have. Be offended that my culture is not your culture, and that the way I do things is based on something different than the way you do things is based on.

 

[JGPS]

I am a married man, so if I look at Beyonce or the models of victoria secret with lust. Have I committed adultery. yes

No, you've just commited a great deal of covetousness. It's a problem, but its not adultery. You're just abusing scripture now. Understand what the word means first, then evaluate the verse. You're assuming what the word means, and twisting the verse to fit your perverse view of it.

Know if I see a woman that is attractive and say you are a beautiful girl and not lust then there is nothing wrong with that.

Obviously.

It's when we look and keep looking and imagine what we could do with that. Now if you are not married and you see something that raises your eye. Then there is nothing wrong with talking to that person and asking them for a date. I see nothing wrong with that.

Yeah.

But, if you are married, Then that is adultery.

Scripture first, then conclusions. Cart first, then horse. Lust\Covetousness is wrong in and of itself, it does not need to be adultery to be wrong.

But adultery is a woman who breaks wedlock and the man she breaks it with... Nothing more or less.

 

[Domenic]

Building from here.

The only functional definition of scriptural adultery is a man taking another mans woman. A married woman with a man that is not her husband. A concordance will give you something along the lines of 'a woman that breaketh wedlock' as its definition of adultery in scripture.

Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman generally falls in the category of fornication, and not adultery. Similarly two unmarried individuals cannot commit adultery, but can only fornicate.

The modern sense of adultery which goes both ways doesn't function in scripture because throughout scripture men are allowed more than one wife. Under the modern definition a great deal of normal marriage in scripture would be considered adultery.

Understanding the biblical meaning of adultery is important for numerous reasons, but there are a few I'd like to point out. First the nature of the crime of adultery is somewhat different than fornication. Fornication is a crime in the present that hurts those who do it. Adultery is a crime against the future. The English archaic sense of adultery explains this well. To adulterate something is to take something of value and purity and debase or devalue it by mixing in inferior materials or elements. It's adding lead to gold or mixing olive oil with cheap canola oil. It affects the end product. Adultery leaves questions of parentage and purity that can do lasting damaged not only to the relationships of those involved but also the next generation of relationships.

Secondly understanding what adultery means changes ones view of Matt 5:28 from being something novel and neigh unreasonable, especially to the young, to something quite tolerable that scripture has always said.

Obviously one cannot commit adultery with an unmarried woman.

Of course there are more implications than that, but those are a few things that come to mind.

Adultry( when one is married, and has sex outside the marriage.) This act ends the marriage. The married person who does adulitry, is in fact marrying the person they do the adultry with.

 

[JGPS]

Adultry( when one is married, and has sex outside the marriage.) This act ends the marriage. The married person who does adulitry, is in fact marrying the person they do the adultry with.

This act ends life. Weather it be life literally by execution in the old testament or a figurative end of life by being cut off from ones people. Nowadays its as little as being cut off from God, but all the same, it is an act that ends life.

Of course God can bring even an adulterer back to life, but that is another matter.

All the same, if you're in a thread that seeks to clearly define a word, bring some evidence for your definition when opining please.

 

[RickShafer]

The banned OP said - 'Obviously one cannot commit adultery with an unmarried woman.'

A married man can.
Nice to see the moderators doing their job.
This individual was one of the most arrogant ignorant persons I have ever come across.