Colossians 2:16-17 and Sabbath/Festival/New Moon Observance

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sparkman

Guest
#41
I am not a moderator or administrator. I think teaching a strange doctrine like Armstrongism would cause concern as this is an orthodox chat site. Especially since they deny the Trinity and teach that they are being perfected so they can become God beings in the resurrection. They also call Protestantism the "daughters of the whore" and deny their Christianity.

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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#42
I am not a moderator or administrator. I think teaching a strange doctrine like Armstrongism would cause concern as this is an orthodox chat site. Especially since they deny the Trinity and teach that they are being perfected so they can become God beings in the resurrection. They also call Protestantism the "daughters of the whore" and deny their Christianity.
THE RULES SAY NOTHING ABOUT YOU CAN'T DENIE THE TRINITY.

THE BIBLE SAYS

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus


A QUESTION, WHERE IS THE HOLY SPIRITS THRONE IN THE FUTURE, OR ANYTIME
 
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Laodicea

Guest
#44
The weekly Sabbath was given at creation so cannot be a shadow. Read the 4th commandment, the 7th day Sabbath is a memorial of creation. The 7 feasts in Leviticus 23 are also called sabbaths and were given long after creation so were shadows pointing to Christ. Passover for example was a shadow, the Bible calls Jesus our passover.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#45
The weekly Sabbath was given at creation so cannot be a shadow. Read the 4th commandment, the 7th day Sabbath is a memorial of creation. The 7 feasts in Leviticus 23 are also called sabbaths and were given long after creation so were shadows pointing to Christ. Passover for example was a shadow, the Bible calls Jesus our passover.
Colossians 2:16-17 clearly calls the festivals, new moons, and weekly Sabbaths "shadows". Hebrews 10:1-2 calls animal sacrifices "shadows" as well, putting them on the same level of significance.

They pointed to Christ, and Christ has already come. These days lose their significance because of this.

Some, including Seventh Day Adventists, will claim that the reference to sabbaths in Colossians 2:16-17 does not refer to the weekly Sabbath. However, they are inconsistent in their argument as they admit that the other 59 times sabbaton is used in the New Testament for Sabbaths, it means the weekly Sabbath. In addition, the form of seasonal, monthly, and weekly is used over and over in the Old Testament as a pattern to refer to festivals, new moons, and weekly Sabbaths, in either ascending or descending order, so their assertion is not sound.

But, at least the Seventh Day Adventists know that the language of "shadows" indicates their transcient nature.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#46
Colossians 2:16-17 clearly calls the festivals, new moons, and weekly Sabbaths "shadows". .

clearly calls the festivals, new moons, and weekly Sabbaths "shadows".


of things to come
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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#47
They pointed to Christ, and Christ has already come. These days lose their significance because of this.

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how can that be, when this [things to come] was spoken [after] Christ shed his blood for us
 
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sparkman

Guest
#48
how can that be, when this [things to come] was spoken [after] Christ shed his blood for us
Why does Hebrews 10:1-2 clearly use the same language with regards to shadows, in reference to animal sacrifices, that Colossians 2:16-17 does in regards to the Sabbath, new moons, and festivals?

And, who is it that is usually involved in judging? It is Sabbathkeepers who are judging those within the church for not observing them, as we find today.

Nonbelievers don't care what someone does with their Saturday.

Hebrews 10: 10 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?

Colossians 2:16-17 [SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. [SUP]17 [/SUP]These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

The same exact language is used in regards to animal sacrifices as is used regarding the Sabbath, festivals, and new moons. They are placed in the same class of applicability.

This is why Seventh Day Adventists deny that the word Sabbath means the weekly Sabbath in Colossians 2:16-17. They know it would be the end of their Sabbath doctrine if it does refer to the weekly Sabbath...which it does..the same Greek word sabbaton is used 59 other times in the New Testament where they acknowledge that it means the weekly Sabbath.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and festivals, keep them. Just don't judge others for not keeping them, or try to teach it applies to New Covenant Christians.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#49
By the way, I moved this point to another thread so others will see it. It has nothing to do with your question or you personally. I want to make sure that the point is made to others.

Why does Hebrews 10:1-2 clearly use the same language with regards to shadows, in reference to animal sacrifices, that Colossians 2:16-17 does in regards to the Sabbath, new moons, and festivals?

And, who is it that is usually involved in judging? It is Sabbathkeepers who are judging those within the church for not observing them, as we find today.

Nonbelievers don't care what someone does with their Saturday.

Hebrews 10: 10 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?

Colossians 2:16-17 [SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. [SUP]17 [/SUP]These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

The same exact language is used in regards to animal sacrifices as is used regarding the Sabbath, festivals, and new moons. They are placed in the same class of applicability.

This is why Seventh Day Adventists deny that the word Sabbath means the weekly Sabbath in Colossians 2:16-17. They know it would be the end of their Sabbath doctrine if it does refer to the weekly Sabbath...which it does..the same Greek word sabbaton is used 59 other times in the New Testament where they acknowledge that it means the weekly Sabbath.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and festivals, keep them. Just don't judge others for not keeping them, or try to teach it applies to New Covenant Christians.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#50
By the way, the "shadows" reference may relate to Plato's allegory of the cave. Paul may have been exposed to this through the teachings of Gamaliel.

The allegory involves men who are only exposed to shadows of real objects due to the way they are imprisonment in a dark cave. They see reflections of objects in the real world against the wall of the cave, but they don't see the real thing..only the shadows. When they are finally released, and they experience the real thing, there is no way that they want to go back to the shadows.

The Old Covenant is a mere shadow of the reality, which is Christ.

Whether Paul knew the Socratic cave allegory I don't know but the general point still applies.
 
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sparkman

Guest
#51
An additional point I'd like to make with regards to Colossians 2:16-17..this point involves considering three different Scriptures (not of necessity but for support):

Colossians 2:16-17 [SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. [SUP]17 [/SUP]These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.

Hebrews 9:10-12 [SUP]10 [/SUP]but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,[SUP][a][/SUP] then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) [SUP]12 [/SUP]he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

Galatians 3:16-25 [SUP]16 [/SUP]Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

Here is the reasoning:

1. Colossians 2:16-17 groups food and drink offerings, the Sabbath and annual festivals together.

2. Food and drink offerings were imposed until the time of Reformation..which was when Christ came and died for our sins
per Hebrews 9:10-12.

3. Galatians 3:16-25 provides further support that the Old Covenant was only in effect until Christ came and died for our
sins. It is no longer in effect.

4. Since Colossians 2:16-17 groups food and drink offerings, the Sabbath and annual festivals together, they are under the
same level of applicability to the New Covenant believer.

5. Additionally, Hebrews 10:1-2 uses the same language of "shadows of things to come" in reference to animal sacrifices that
is applied to the Sabbath and Holy Days, placing them in this same category of inapplicable things.

As indicated on other posts, an additional point is that Hebrews 10:1-2 uses the same reference of "shadow of things to come" in reference to the animal sacrifices as Colossians 2:16-17 uses in regards to the Sabbath, Holy Days, food and drink offerings.

Hebrews 10:1-2 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins?


The reasoning that the Sabbath and Holy Days do not apply to New Covenant Christians is inescapable. If someone wants to observe them, fine, but don't accuse other non-observant individuals of being false Christians or being in sin.
 
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