Colossians 2.
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here's the conclusion:
your faith is weak such that you need to observe sabbaths and feasts and festivals and dietary laws?
that's fine. it really is.
judging others over it, not fine. but do what your conscience requires of you, so you don't condemn yourself.
but i wonder why no one answered me when i asked what i should do to observe the New Moon festival?
next new moon is the 18th. 3 more days.
anyone actually serious about this weird interpretation of Colossians 2?
i figure if you are, you ought to be jumping at the chance to help me out with that question.
or maybe y'all not quite as serious about it as you make yourselves out to be?
lol only the sabbath part ((but not really)), not the rest of what you're preaching?
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
(Romans 14:22-23)
(Romans 14:22-23)
your faith is weak such that you need to observe sabbaths and feasts and festivals and dietary laws?
that's fine. it really is.
judging others over it, not fine. but do what your conscience requires of you, so you don't condemn yourself.
but i wonder why no one answered me when i asked what i should do to observe the New Moon festival?
next new moon is the 18th. 3 more days.
anyone actually serious about this weird interpretation of Colossians 2?
i figure if you are, you ought to be jumping at the chance to help me out with that question.
or maybe y'all not quite as serious about it as you make yourselves out to be?
lol only the sabbath part ((but not really)), not the rest of what you're preaching?
Actually I prefer another scripture.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
here's the conclusion:
your faith is weak such that you need to observe sabbaths and feasts and festivals and dietary laws?
that's fine. it really is.
judging others over it, not fine. but do what your conscience requires of you, so you don't condemn yourself.
but i wonder why no one answered me when i asked what i should do to observe the New Moon festival?
next new moon is the 18th. 3 more days.
anyone actually serious about this weird interpretation of Colossians 2?
i figure if you are, you ought to be jumping at the chance to help me out with that question.
or maybe y'all not quite as serious about it as you make yourselves out to be?
lol only the sabbath part ((but not really)), not the rest of what you're preaching?
So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
(Romans 14:22-23)
(Romans 14:22-23)
your faith is weak such that you need to observe sabbaths and feasts and festivals and dietary laws?
that's fine. it really is.
judging others over it, not fine. but do what your conscience requires of you, so you don't condemn yourself.
but i wonder why no one answered me when i asked what i should do to observe the New Moon festival?
next new moon is the 18th. 3 more days.
anyone actually serious about this weird interpretation of Colossians 2?
i figure if you are, you ought to be jumping at the chance to help me out with that question.
or maybe y'all not quite as serious about it as you make yourselves out to be?
lol only the sabbath part ((but not really)), not the rest of what you're preaching?
I am fascinated by your preaching that this is what the chapter is about, I just can't see it.
I can't see where the Bible teaches the New Covenant destroyed God's Laws either.
So maybe you are right, maybe I'm just weird.
in that case i suggest that maybe you should pay more attention to what Paul actually says in exactly the same context that you're semi-quoting him from:
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from The Law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. What shall we say, then? Is The Law sinful? Certainly not!
(Romans 7:6-7)
you're certainly free however to keep your mainstream human tradition, twisting rather than listening to what scripture actually says, even to your own detriment. of course i wish you wouldn't.(Romans 7:6-7)
never said that. i said i don't know where you get these weird misinterpretations from.
you're not weird, in fact you are very much mainstream, as i took care to explain. it is exactly the tradition of man to add works to grace, as well as to misrepresent and misunderstand the gospel when they hear & reject it in favor of 'another'
you're not weird, in fact you are very much mainstream, as i took care to explain. it is exactly the tradition of man to add works to grace, as well as to misrepresent and misunderstand the gospel when they hear & reject it in favor of 'another'
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.
(Hebrews 7:12)
(Hebrews 7:12)
i know where your thoughts go when you read this.
you think "oh that's the ceremonial law etc, because i can break the Law of the Covenant into bits i want to subject myself and bits i don't"
and you think "certainly not THE SACRED 10 - those were engraved on tablets of stone"
but you never did answer 2 Corinthians 3 -- because it can't be in the Bible if you're not in error. the Bible can't possibly say "the ministration of death engraved on tablets of stone"
certainly Paul never wrote anything like that, certainly the Holy Spirit wouldn't have inspired...
.. or? what if it so happens that's exactly what scripture says?
you've got a problem, because scripture does not support the way you want to think, but you really want scripture to support it. the solution is The Cross. you need to understand that the Law - the whole Law - is a marriage covenant, a contract between Israel and Jehovah. one which Israel broke by adultery, the same one which will judge you if you do not die with The Everlasting Father who paid to redeem you from it with His own blood.
it's not destroyed - you keep saying i "preach" things that i have never said - it remains to judge whoever does not join Christ in His death, but whoever dies with Him, lives with Him, and is no longer under the condemnation you're trying to make Colossians 2 say we are still subjected to.
Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, in whom you have put your hope. If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?
(John 5:45-47)
here, the Law remains, truly.
it remains to judge whoever does not believe Jesus - no jot or tittle is taken away until everything is accomplished.
enjoy it.
too bad the jots and tittles about sacrifices for remission of sin remain, yet no sacrifices remain!
ya might want to read the whole chapter. and the whole book, tbh
But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from The Law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it — the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.
(Romans 3:21-22)
i asked you to read all of Romans & Galatians with me the other night -- did you?(Romans 3:21-22)
and is it writing about inconsequential, non-binding, completely extraneous human traditions? or about The Law of Moses?
K
Reading the whole book is a good idea. At least read the last verse in the chapter. Did you read the last verse in the chapter? What do you think "uphold" means?
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
up·hold
[ˌəpˈhōld]
VERB
confirm or support (something that has been questioned):
"the court upheld his claim for damages"
synonyms: confirm · endorse · sustain · approve · agree to · support · champion · defend
maintain (a custom or practice):
"many furniture makers uphold the tradition of fine design"
synonyms: maintain · sustain · continue · preserve · protect · champion · defend · keep · hold to · keep alive · keep going · back (up) · stand by
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.
up·hold
[ˌəpˈhōld]
VERB
confirm or support (something that has been questioned):
"the court upheld his claim for damages"
synonyms: confirm · endorse · sustain · approve · agree to · support · champion · defend
maintain (a custom or practice):
"many furniture makers uphold the tradition of fine design"
synonyms: maintain · sustain · continue · preserve · protect · champion · defend · keep · hold to · keep alive · keep going · back (up) · stand by
The letter of the law, the 10 commandments, is death no matter how you slice it.
You aren't going to be able to love God according to the law and you aren't going to be able to love neighbor according to the law.
But, when you die to the law and your work at it and abide in Christ, Love is one of the fruit that He grows. This Love is given as a gift. This is what upholds the law.
Not a persons understanding of the 10 commandments and subsequent work at them.
You aren't going to be able to love God according to the law and you aren't going to be able to love neighbor according to the law.
But, when you die to the law and your work at it and abide in Christ, Love is one of the fruit that He grows. This Love is given as a gift. This is what upholds the law.
Not a persons understanding of the 10 commandments and subsequent work at them.
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmĕin.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 19:16-17, "And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life? And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – YHWH. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 7:12-14, “So that the Law truly is holy, and the command holy, and righteous, and good. Therefore, has that which is good become death to me? Let it not be! But the sin, that sin might be manifest, was working death in me through what is good, so that sin through the command might become an exceedingly great sinner. For we know that the Law is Spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 3:7-8, “But if the administering of death in letters, engraved on stones, was esteemed, so that the children of Yisra’yl were unable to look steadily at the face of Mosheh because of the esteem of his face, which was passing away, how much more esteemed shall the administering of the Spirit not be?”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Peter/Kepha 3:15-17, "and reckon the patience of our Master as deliverance, as also our beloved brother Paul/Sha’ul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, as also in all his letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless, but grow in the favor and knowledge of our Master and Savior [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah. To Him be the esteem both now and to a day that abides. Awmĕin.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 19:16-17, "And see, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good shall I do to have everlasting life? And He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except One – YHWH. But if you wish to enter into life, guard the commands.”
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
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No, I didn't think that at all. If you want to preach Heb. 7 is talking about something other than the Priesthood, have at it. My OP is not about you or your religious traditions.
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
So I know what the Author is writing about because he tells me. I have no reason to add to his words or alter them to justify some church tradition.
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
The change of the Priesthood, according to what the Word actually says, is because Jesus is from the tribe of Judah, and the Priesthood that God gave through Moses was for the Levite.
This reply isn't for you because you have your religion and nothing this Author or Paul or God Almighty says is going to change that, I get that.
But for those who might be reading along, Can you see that Hebrews is speaking to the Priesthood here? That even though todays preachers preach you can't separate God's Commandments from the Levitical Priesthood, Hebrews is doing just that.
Who was given authority to "make priests" in the OT? The Levites through the Levitical Priesthood!!! YES? And this Authority was given to them by God/Jesus, "Till the Seed should come" as Paul mentions in Gal. 3:19.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Can you see that this is speaking to the "change" of the Priesthood Law which God gave through Moses. Not the elimination of God's word for Christians, or the New Covenant erasing God's Word for those who turn to Christ. God didn't even eliminate the Priesthood, Jesus is still our High Priest and is performing the Spiritual Priesthood duties in Heaven perfectly. Just as He said in Matt. 5.
Now this was a big deal in their time. Hebrews is saying, as was Jesus, that their "priesthood" was gone, changed to how it was before God gave this priesthood to the Levites. their job, their social standing and power was gone. Like the "Rich man" they were more interested in the "creation" than the creator.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law(The Levitical Priesthood) made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
The Law Abraham followed (Gen. 26:4,5) didn't "Make" a Levite. It was the Levitical Priesthood which was "ADDED" to the Laws Abraham kept 430 years after Abraham which "made a Priest". It was the Covenant of Abraham that the Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" to.
Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.
This truth is forgotten, rejected in the traditions and doctrines of todays mainstream preachers, as it was for the mainstream preachers of Christ's time. All foretold by the Prophets and Jesus HimSelf.
I already showed you where Paul explains about why disobedience to God brings death. I can't make you accept His Words, I can only show them to you.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
This isn't speaking about the Levitical Priesthood, it was a "Carnal Commandment" as it is written.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Paul explains the "ministration of Death" if you can accept it.
Your preaching that somehow your version of 2 Corinthians negates or alters or destroys Heb 7, or Col. 2 or romans 7:12,13 is fascinating to behold, is an amazing example of Rom. 1:21-23, but is false just the same.
2 Cor. 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
But you preach that Jesus triumphed over God, nailed His Laws, which are against us, to the Cross.
You follow the Catholic "The Law isn't for Christians" doctrine that many who come in Christ's name preach on this very forum. I don't believe this doctrine comes from the Bible and this is the reason for the OP in the first place.
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament;
How can Paul by a "Minister" of God's Word? He was from the tribe of Benjamin. He's not a Levite. OH, that's right, Hebrews 7 says the Priesthood has been "CHANGED" . Jesus is the High Priest and He chose Paul to minister God's Words.
not of the letter, (The Letter says we are dead in our sins and of in need of Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins) but of the spiritWE have a changed Priesthood, where Christ's Blood cleanses us once and for all) for the letter killeth,(you sin, you die) but the spirit giveth life.(Christ administers God's instruction by writing them on our hearts and forgiving us our past transgressions so we can "SERVE" in the newness of the Spirit.)
do we "SERVE" doctrines and Traditions of men? Of God through Jesus Christ?
This is the New Testament. How God's Laws are administered, and how sins are forgiven. I don't find any evidence that the New covenant replaced God's instruction, re-defined God's Instructions, or destroyed God's instructions.
Jesus didn't redeem me or free me from His/His Fathers instructions. He wrote them on my heart.
He freed me from the death and deception refusing to Glorify Him as God brings me. As Paul wrote.
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
For anyone following along can you see what Paul is revealing here?
The Jews didn't like God's Instructions either. They didn't like God's Sabbaths so they created their own. They didn't like God's Holy Days so they created their own. They didn't like God, so they created images of Him in the likeness of man. All in the name of the God of Abraham.
Today we have the exact same mainstream preaching.
Religious Men don't like God's instruction either.
They don't like God's Sabbath so they created their own.
They Don't like God's Holy Days so they create their own.
They don't like the Jesus of the Bible so they create their own image of Him in the likeness of some handsome men's hair shampoo model. All in the name of Jesus.
Like the Pharisees, they use parts of God's Word to justify their transgressions. But like the Pharisees when we use ALL God's Word their teaching is exposed And like the Pharisees, when anyone points any of these truths out to them, they will hate, insult, scorn, and try to discredit as they did the Prophets of old and Jesus and His apostles.
The similarities between the Mainstream Church of today and the those in Christ's time are astounding to be sure, but very uncomfortable to speak about. It was for me 20+ years ago, and it will be fore everybody. We, like Jesus, are all born into a religion that transgresses the Commandments of God by man's own doctrines and traditions. We all have the same choice. Do we listen to God or man?
Jesus didn't "nail Any of God's Instructions to His Cross" as todays preachers teach. He nailed the "Handwriting of Ordinances" that the mainstream church of His time had been teaching for centuries. Their traditions and doctrines were against Paul and the Gentiles. Not God's. Their traditions and doctrines were "Vain deceit", Rudiments of the World, not God's Instructions.
Jesus "Spoiled " their powers, not Gods. Jesus made a show of their religion openly, not God's Instructions.
Jesus triumphed over THEM, not God as you preach.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
So they Killed Him. But Did He stay dead? NO!!!!
Jesus made a Show of THEM openly, and Glorified God and His Instructions.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
These instructions that come from God are a shadow of things to come. They are not "rudiments of the World", they are not "Vain deceits" and they are not "man made tradition". Jesus said they would be here as long as heaven and earth are here.
They will not depart as the traditions of man will. "22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
For those who are reading along, PM me if you think I am wrong on these points or if you want to respond and not receive the scorn of others on this forum. This is important stuff in my opinion.
The New Covenant has to do with 2 things.
#1. How God's Laws are administered.
#2. How sins are forgiven.
But as it is written.
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
It is against the First and Greatest Commandment to create an image of God after the likeness of man. No one who joins Christ in His death would ever venture to do or partake in such a thing.
It is against Jesus to create your own High Days and reject those He created for man. No one who Joins Christ in His Death would do such a thing.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Jesus didn't create His own religion with His own high Days and His own Sabbaths. Neither did Abraham, nor Noah, nor David, nor Stephen, nor Paul nor James nor Zacharias . In fact, not one of the Examples given in God's Word of a "Faithful" member of God's Church ever did anything that that. These are Biblical facts that can not be denied.
But The Children of Israel who were destroyed in the Wilderness did.
Cain did.
the Pharisees did.
The wicked Kings of Israel did.
And the Mainstream Christian Church or our time does.
This is the reason for my OP.
No, I didn't think that at all. If you want to preach Heb. 7 is talking about something other than the Priesthood, have at it. My OP is not about you or your religious traditions.
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
So I know what the Author is writing about because he tells me. I have no reason to add to his words or alter them to justify some church tradition.
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
The change of the Priesthood, according to what the Word actually says, is because Jesus is from the tribe of Judah, and the Priesthood that God gave through Moses was for the Levite.
This reply isn't for you because you have your religion and nothing this Author or Paul or God Almighty says is going to change that, I get that.
But for those who might be reading along, Can you see that Hebrews is speaking to the Priesthood here? That even though todays preachers preach you can't separate God's Commandments from the Levitical Priesthood, Hebrews is doing just that.
Who was given authority to "make priests" in the OT? The Levites through the Levitical Priesthood!!! YES? And this Authority was given to them by God/Jesus, "Till the Seed should come" as Paul mentions in Gal. 3:19.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Can you see that this is speaking to the "change" of the Priesthood Law which God gave through Moses. Not the elimination of God's word for Christians, or the New Covenant erasing God's Word for those who turn to Christ. God didn't even eliminate the Priesthood, Jesus is still our High Priest and is performing the Spiritual Priesthood duties in Heaven perfectly. Just as He said in Matt. 5.
Now this was a big deal in their time. Hebrews is saying, as was Jesus, that their "priesthood" was gone, changed to how it was before God gave this priesthood to the Levites. their job, their social standing and power was gone. Like the "Rich man" they were more interested in the "creation" than the creator.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law(The Levitical Priesthood) made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.
The Law Abraham followed (Gen. 26:4,5) didn't "Make" a Levite. It was the Levitical Priesthood which was "ADDED" to the Laws Abraham kept 430 years after Abraham which "made a Priest". It was the Covenant of Abraham that the Levitical Priesthood was "ADDED" to.
Ex. 2:23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.
This truth is forgotten, rejected in the traditions and doctrines of todays mainstream preachers, as it was for the mainstream preachers of Christ's time. All foretold by the Prophets and Jesus HimSelf.
I already showed you where Paul explains about why disobedience to God brings death. I can't make you accept His Words, I can only show them to you.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
This isn't speaking about the Levitical Priesthood, it was a "Carnal Commandment" as it is written.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Paul explains the "ministration of Death" if you can accept it.
Your preaching that somehow your version of 2 Corinthians negates or alters or destroys Heb 7, or Col. 2 or romans 7:12,13 is fascinating to behold, is an amazing example of Rom. 1:21-23, but is false just the same.
2 Cor. 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
But you preach that Jesus triumphed over God, nailed His Laws, which are against us, to the Cross.
You follow the Catholic "The Law isn't for Christians" doctrine that many who come in Christ's name preach on this very forum. I don't believe this doctrine comes from the Bible and this is the reason for the OP in the first place.
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament;
How can Paul by a "Minister" of God's Word? He was from the tribe of Benjamin. He's not a Levite. OH, that's right, Hebrews 7 says the Priesthood has been "CHANGED" . Jesus is the High Priest and He chose Paul to minister God's Words.
not of the letter, (The Letter says we are dead in our sins and of in need of Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins) but of the spirit
WE have a changed Priesthood, where Christ's Blood cleanses us once and for all) for the letter killeth,(you sin, you die) but the spirit giveth life.(Christ administers God's instruction by writing them on our hearts and forgiving us our past transgressions so we can "SERVE" in the newness of the Spirit.)do we "SERVE" doctrines and Traditions of men? Of God through Jesus Christ?
This is the New Testament. How God's Laws are administered, and how sins are forgiven. I don't find any evidence that the New covenant replaced God's instruction, re-defined God's Instructions, or destroyed God's instructions.
Jesus didn't redeem me or free me from His/His Fathers instructions. He wrote them on my heart.
He freed me from the death and deception refusing to Glorify Him as God brings me. As Paul wrote.
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
For anyone following along can you see what Paul is revealing here?
The Jews didn't like God's Instructions either. They didn't like God's Sabbaths so they created their own. They didn't like God's Holy Days so they created their own. They didn't like God, so they created images of Him in the likeness of man. All in the name of the God of Abraham.
Today we have the exact same mainstream preaching.
Religious Men don't like God's instruction either.
They don't like God's Sabbath so they created their own.
They Don't like God's Holy Days so they create their own.
They don't like the Jesus of the Bible so they create their own image of Him in the likeness of some handsome men's hair shampoo model. All in the name of Jesus.
Like the Pharisees, they use parts of God's Word to justify their transgressions. But like the Pharisees when we use ALL God's Word their teaching is exposed And like the Pharisees, when anyone points any of these truths out to them, they will hate, insult, scorn, and try to discredit as they did the Prophets of old and Jesus and His apostles.
The similarities between the Mainstream Church of today and the those in Christ's time are astounding to be sure, but very uncomfortable to speak about. It was for me 20+ years ago, and it will be fore everybody. We, like Jesus, are all born into a religion that transgresses the Commandments of God by man's own doctrines and traditions. We all have the same choice. Do we listen to God or man?
Jesus didn't "nail Any of God's Instructions to His Cross" as todays preachers teach. He nailed the "Handwriting of Ordinances" that the mainstream church of His time had been teaching for centuries. Their traditions and doctrines were against Paul and the Gentiles. Not God's. Their traditions and doctrines were "Vain deceit", Rudiments of the World, not God's Instructions.
Jesus "Spoiled " their powers, not Gods. Jesus made a show of their religion openly, not God's Instructions.
Jesus triumphed over THEM, not God as you preach.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
So they Killed Him. But Did He stay dead? NO!!!!
Jesus made a Show of THEM openly, and Glorified God and His Instructions.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
These instructions that come from God are a shadow of things to come. They are not "rudiments of the World", they are not "Vain deceits" and they are not "man made tradition". Jesus said they would be here as long as heaven and earth are here.
They will not depart as the traditions of man will. "22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men?For those who are reading along, PM me if you think I am wrong on these points or if you want to respond and not receive the scorn of others on this forum. This is important stuff in my opinion.
The New Covenant has to do with 2 things.
#1. How God's Laws are administered.
#2. How sins are forgiven.
But as it is written.
1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
It is against the First and Greatest Commandment to create an image of God after the likeness of man. No one who joins Christ in His death would ever venture to do or partake in such a thing.
It is against Jesus to create your own High Days and reject those He created for man. No one who Joins Christ in His Death would do such a thing.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Jesus didn't create His own religion with His own high Days and His own Sabbaths. Neither did Abraham, nor Noah, nor David, nor Stephen, nor Paul nor James nor Zacharias . In fact, not one of the Examples given in God's Word of a "Faithful" member of God's Church ever did anything that that. These are Biblical facts that can not be denied.
But The Children of Israel who were destroyed in the Wilderness did.
Cain did.
the Pharisees did.
The wicked Kings of Israel did.
And the Mainstream Christian Church or our time does.
This is the reason for my OP.
Had they Believed what Moses wrote, they would have known about Jesus. But they didn't believe what Moses wrote, they created their own religion by rejecting what Moses wrote.
Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
That is the point. As Jesus taught.
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Wow, talk about hitting the nail on the head.
Duet. 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
That is the point. As Jesus taught.
Luke 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Wow, talk about hitting the nail on the head.
Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
What Law? You preach, as does the Pope, that there is only one Law and it is against us, and Jesus nailed it to His Cross. But Paul is teaching there are TWO Laws.
"Law of Works"
"Law of Faith"
Are we judged by the Law of Works? No, the Levitical Priest was in charge of administering God's Laws and performing the "works of the Law" for remission of sins. Hebrews says this was a "Carnal" Commandment.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Heb. 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
This is the "LAW of Works". We are not judged by this Law given to the Levites.
But we are Judged by the "Law of Faith".
Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
So just because you or any of a number of other people don't believe these scriptures, does that make the Word of God Void? GOD Forbid. Let God's Word be truth, and every tradition and doctrine of man be a lie.
What Law? You preach, as does the Pope, that there is only one Law and it is against us, and Jesus nailed it to His Cross. But Paul is teaching there are TWO Laws.
"Law of Works"
"Law of Faith"
Are we judged by the Law of Works? No, the Levitical Priest was in charge of administering God's Laws and performing the "works of the Law" for remission of sins. Hebrews says this was a "Carnal" Commandment.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Heb. 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
This is the "LAW of Works". We are not judged by this Law given to the Levites.
But we are Judged by the "Law of Faith".
Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
So just because you or any of a number of other people don't believe these scriptures, does that make the Word of God Void? GOD Forbid. Let God's Word be truth, and every tradition and doctrine of man be a lie.