Computer related

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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,657
150
63
#1
I have worked 40 years for EMR Telemetry and was required to become an expert on computer hardware and software. The comment on each page about the possibility of posts being lost will happen only if the techs are incompetant.

The proper procedure is to take the servers offline at night after prior notice is given to users.
Step 1 then with the servers off line copy the database of posts to another computer
Step 2 update the servers
Step 3 restore the backup database
Step 4 verify database restored
Step 5 place the servers back online
 
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U

Ugly

Guest
#2
I have worked 40 years for EMR Telemetry and was required to become an expert on computer hardware and software. The comment on each page about the possibility of posts being lost will happen only if the techs are incompetant.

The proper procedure is to take the servers offline at night after prior notice is given to users.
Step 1 then with the servers off line copy the database of posts to another computer
Step 2 update the servers
Step 3 restore the backup database
Step 4 verify database restored
Step 5 place the servers back online
The one person that does all of the work, the site owner, you're suggesting is incompetent if a post gets lost? It was such an important thing to say to insult someone? And in the bible forums? How important or necessary was this post?
 
Mar 14, 2011
53,621
1,998
113
#3
The one person that does all of the work, the site owner, you're suggesting is incompetent if a post gets lost? It was such an important thing to say to insult someone? And in the bible forums? How important or necessary was this post?
while insulting the admins of CC he insults himself,

anyone with knowledge of computers know when you do a repair, you back up a systemdatabase, then do the repairs, or software change, anything which was added from the time of the back-up to the restore is lost permanently when you restor the origional database.

Thats why any IT person with an ounce of integrity will warn their people when these things are going on.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,657
150
63
#4
The one person that does all of the work, the site owner, you're suggesting is incompetent if a post gets lost? It was such an important thing to say to insult someone? And in the bible forums? How important or necessary was this post?
As an expert in computers and software I stand by my statements. Unless the owner of the site is a computer expert then doing this transition is way beyond him. Server creation and upgrading and connecting to the internet is very technical. Therefore whoever created and maintains it must be very accomplished. That means they would know how to transfer the database without error. Do you know what a relational database is? Do you know what SQL is? A database is a collection of files pointed to by a piece of software. SQL is the piece of software that allows a GUI (graphical User Interface) to access it to retrieve selected files to display, place the information in a file with multiple sources in the database, or to write more information into the database. A relational database is one that allows multiple versions of data and requires more data to point to the correct version file having the required information. The database in question is obviously a relational database. Computers have directories for files. This software and data are kept in only selected directories that need to be transferred.
 
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Musicus

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
304
35
28
#5
I have worked 40 years for EMR Telemetry and was required to become an expert on computer hardware and software. The comment on each page about the possibility of posts being lost will happen only if the techs are incompetant.

The proper procedure is to take the servers offline at night after prior notice is given to users.
Step 1 then with the servers off line copy the database of posts to another computer
Step 2 update the servers
Step 3 restore the backup database
Step 4 verify database restored
Step 5 place the servers back online
The one person that does all of the work, the site owner, you're suggesting is incompetent if a post gets lost? It was such an important thing to say to insult someone? And in the bible forums? How important or necessary was this post?
Depends on how you read it. Sounds to me more like words of reassurance to us posters than an insult to the maintenance techs. I'm a tech myself, and I'm not insulted by this at all.
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,933
444
83
#6
There is a lot of info on this site and a lot gets posted daily.

.I get the feeling they downloaded it all prior to putting the notice on top and will reboot everything when they are ready.

The warning is more that they don't plan on downloading the present stuff and will use the old download.

Maybe streamline some forums and delete some old threads.

Considering its a free site, I don't know why anyone would complain if their posts or threads are lost..,,kind of expected to free up storage for other topics and discussions.
 

shrume

Senior Member
Jun 26, 2017
2,193
456
83
#7
As an expert in computers and software
Hmm...

I stand by my statements. Unless the owner of the site is a computer expert then doing this transition is way beyond him. Server creation and upgrading and connecting to the internet is very technical. Therefore whoever created and maintains it must be very accomplished. That means they would know how to transfer the database without error.
OK..

Do you know what a relational database is?
Yes.

Do you know what SQL is?
Yes.

A database is a collection of files pointed to by a piece of software.
Depends on the RDBMS. The database might be contained in a single file.

SQL is the piece of software
SQL is a language, "Structured Query Language" that allows other software to interact with the database.

that allows a GUI (graphical User Interface) to access it to retrieve selected files to display
If files are stored in the database, then they could be retrieved from the database and "displayed". Most websites do not store their files in the database, with the possible exception of some graphics, etc.

place the information in a file with multiple sources in the database
..not sure what that's supposed to mean.

or to write more information into the database.
Yes.

A relational database is one that allows multiple versions of data
Not necessarily. Many relational databases contain only one version of the data.

and requires more data to point to the correct version file having the required information.
..not sure what that's supposed to mean.

The database in question is obviously a relational database.
Yes.

Computers have directories for files.
Yes.

This software and data are kept in only selected directories that need to be transferred.
If the software for this site is being upgraded, then it should just be a matter of replacing the site files with the newer versions, and it could still link to the existing database. But if the upgrade means the structure of the database is changing, it's not that easy. The new version of the site might be expecting tables and fields that do not exist in the current database. -Most- upgrade packages provide a database update script to modify the tables, etc, to be compatible with the new site files. But if CC is a fully custom website, such an update script might not exist.

That notice,
YOU ARE WELCOME TO USE THE SITE BUT ANYTHING POSTED OR SENT
AT THIS TIME MAY BE LOST DUE TO SITE/SERVER UPGRADE IN PROGRESS.
has been posted for a couple of weeks now. I'm kinda curious what kind of upgrade takes weeks to implement...

Carry on.. :)
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,657
150
63
#8
The one person that does all of the work, the site owner, you're suggesting is incompetent if a post gets lost? It was such an important thing to say to insult someone? And in the bible forums? How important or necessary was this post?
The way directories are used to hold files it would take an incompetent person to only take part of the database directly. The command to copy files instead of complete directories is incompetent and time consuming.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,657
150
63
#9
while insulting the admins of CC he insults himself,

anyone with knowledge of computers know when you do a repair, you back up a systemdatabase, then do the repairs, or software change, anything which was added from the time of the back-up to the restore is lost permanently when you restor the origional database.

Thats why any IT person with an ounce of integrity will warn their people when these things are going on.
The warning consists of a shutdown notice like banks give. Saying data might be lost is not normal. Since copying complete directories is done with backups normally how are files going to be lost? The computer normally is offline for this operation. If trying to remain on line this could happen but this warning has been up for a long time and changed color once.
 
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Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,229
97
48
#10
The one person that does all of the work, the site owner, you're suggesting is incompetent if a post gets lost? It was such an important thing to say to insult someone? And in the bible forums? How important or necessary was this post?
You are the one insulting the site owner.

Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning. Prov 9:9

But anyways, here is kewl song....

[video=youtube;-CNKdf7aVhI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CNKdf7aVhI[/video]
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,657
150
63
#11
Hmm...


OK..


Yes.


Yes.


Depends on the RDBMS. The database might be contained in a single file.


SQL is a language, "Structured Query Language" that allows other software to interact with the database.


If files are stored in the database, then they could be retrieved from the database and "displayed". Most websites do not store their files in the database, with the possible exception of some graphics, etc.


..not sure what that's supposed to mean.


Yes.


Not necessarily. Many relational databases contain only one version of the data.


..not sure what that's supposed to mean.


Yes.


Yes.


If the software for this site is being upgraded, then it should just be a matter of replacing the site files with the newer versions, and it could still link to the existing database. But if the upgrade means the structure of the database is changing, it's not that easy. The new version of the site might be expecting tables and fields that do not exist in the current database. -Most- upgrade packages provide a database update script to modify the tables, etc, to be compatible with the new site files. But if CC is a fully custom website, such an update script might not exist.

That notice, has been posted for a couple of weeks now. I'm kinda curious what kind of upgrade takes weeks to implement...

Carry on.. :)
This kind of change means the servers being upgraded are required to be off line. Rolling the upgrade software only takes relatively short time. If the database requires modification a script should have been created to perform this modification probably by the creator of the new software as an aid in selling the new software. Databases are just files in directories. There is the version of a single database file requiring an index into the file. This version is slower than the file version. The bigger the database the slower it is. The software upgrade gets done then the script modifying the database is run. This includes changing the type of database. Should never be done online. Should only take an hour or two at very early in the morning. Been there done that for some online systems that our customers used internally and online. Our customers were mostly military and government agencies.
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,657
150
63
#12
Five minute rule again instead of the normal 15 minute rule on most forums.
Normally the creater of the new software will help create scripts to change to their software as incentive to buy their software. Was this done?? Why is this still being warned about. The servers go down at night the prepared scripts are run after applying the software upgrade. A couple of hours usually. Why has this warning been up so long??
 

Ariel82

Senior Member
Aug 8, 2011
16,933
444
83
#13
Cuz this is a free site and the owner is a full time pastor.

Why does it really matter?

Are you paying to use the site?

Do you help support his family and the pay the bills?

Maybe they are deciding how to keep trolls from flooding forums?

Maybe they are debating which threads to keep and which to toss?

Isn't patience suppose to be a virtue.
 

UnderGrace

Senior Member
May 8, 2016
4,404
954
113
#14
This is exactly how it is done where I work.

I was wondering how the site could run at the same time an upgrade is being completed or server maintenance is in progress?


The warning consists of a shutdown notice like banks give. Saying data might be lost is not normal. Since copying complete directories is done with backups normally how are files going to be lost? The computer normally is offline for this operation. If trying to remain on line this could happen but this warning has been up for a long time and changed color once.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
10,047
916
113
#15
I don't know anything about computer upgrades. I was just wondering if the upgrade is done? The sign used to be red, now it is blue. I hope that is progress.

As for the OP, if you want to see a messed up website, I can give you the link. It started transitioning to a new format 2 years ago, and it is so messed up, most people have left. Pretty sure amateurs were in charge of that site, despite it now being owned by Oprah and Dr. Oz. (Not a Christian forum, but a health support group!)

This upgrade has been relatively painless, compared to what I experienced!
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
4,030
163
63
#16
It is a wee bit strange - I run a general discussion forum - when I do a backup or go into the file structure on the server to update and or change things I turn the board off which displays a notice giving the reason for closure.

That way there are no new posts to be lost in the SQL database.

Same thing with doing an upgrade to the latest version of forum software.

I was down for a few hours while installing a 256 bit SSL security certificate to make logins etc. encrypted and secure.

(I tried to buy a cheaper 2 bit certificate but they just laughed at me).

This is what the appropriate functions are in the admin control panel:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,657
150
63
#17
Cuz this is a free site and the owner is a full time pastor.

Why does it really matter?

Are you paying to use the site?

Do you help support his family and the pay the bills?

Maybe they are deciding how to keep trolls from flooding forums?

Maybe they are debating which threads to keep and which to toss?

Isn't patience suppose to be a virtue.
All forums I go to are free. Otherwise I couldn't afford to be on them.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,657
150
63
#18
I don't know anything about computer upgrades. I was just wondering if the upgrade is done? The sign used to be red, now it is blue. I hope that is progress.

As for the OP, if you want to see a messed up website, I can give you the link. It started transitioning to a new format 2 years ago, and it is so messed up, most people have left. Pretty sure amateurs were in charge of that site, despite it now being owned by Oprah and Dr. Oz. (Not a Christian forum, but a health support group!)

This upgrade has been relatively painless, compared to what I experienced!
An upgrade only takes a couple of hours. Take the computer off line and roll on the upgraded software. The upgrades come in a package. It is usually done connected to the internet only attaching to the site with the upgrade. It is then copied onto the computer. End of upgrade. Done it several times for my PCs and company PC's using MS Windows. Also on Unix work stations my company used on our product. Upgraded the DEC computes as well.

The process is the same.
 

dcontroversal

Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
31,698
2,872
113
#19
while insulting the admins of CC he insults himself,

anyone with knowledge of computers know when you do a repair, you back up a systemdatabase, then do the repairs, or software change, anything which was added from the time of the back-up to the restore is lost permanently when you restor the origional database.

Thats why any IT person with an ounce of integrity will warn their people when these things are going on.
He got the instructions out of the creed....hahah yeah I know....cough cough (sarcasm alert)