Conditional Salvation

[Skinski7]

All these people who deny salvation has conditions have no conception that salvation is a state of the heart, a state where the heart is pure, a state where an individual has been born again to the Spirit of God. This state is where we look at things in the way God looks at things, we hate sin and love righteousness and therefore we continually abide in Him.

These false Christian's believe they are still inwardly wicked because they think that the flesh necessitates evil. That is why the need a cloak of some sort to cover them over that they may be acceptable to God in their filthy state.

They do not understand that a "pure state" is wrought via grace THROUGH faith. In other words when we yield ourselves to God WHOLEHEARTEDLY it effects a total transformation of mind, body and soul. That is why they have a "form of godliness" but "deny the power thereof."

These people believe faith is passive and thus refer it to "trusting in the finished word of the cross where you have to do NOTHING" instead of...

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

They have been blinded to the work of faith with power and thus cannot possibly conceive that salvation actually brings about the conquering of sin in their lives. Instead they defend being enslaved to sin manifestly but set free in position. It is all a farce and you need to wake up to it.

Think about it. Really think about it.

 

[SeaBass]

So God runs an 'In and Out' hamburger franchise?

No. But one can fall from Christ due to unfaithfulness.

Jn 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me."

To qualify as one of Chris't sheep required a continued hearing and following both PRESENT TENSE (I just made a post earlier in this thread about eternal securists ignoring the present tense). One of his own free will chooses to hear and follow and one of that same freewill can choose to quit hearing and following and then no longer qualifies as one of Christ's sheep.

 

[notuptome]

these are things happening simultaneously....why would you want to separate them....

Salvation is a one time event. Sanctification is a life long process. One does not start until the first has occurred. You cannot start on sanctification until you have first been saved. They are separate and to confuse them is to create the mess you have on your hands.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[crossnote]

Seabass,

Here is a good example...




Look at how crossnote responds to you. Due to the fact that he adheres to salvation existing as a pure abstraction (ie. not a manifest state) therefore DEEDS have no bearing on it.

Thus crossnote takes your very own words which are presented completely within the framework of crossnotes false paradigm (clothed in another's righteousness ie. an ABSTRACT cloak instead of a MANIFEST HEART STATE) and comes against your statement.

You are answering a fool according to his folly.

What a joke. You think those of us who are in Christ and those Christ indwells are living an abstraction?
Seems to me your twisted reasoning is an abstraction...well I suppose those who have not been regenerated it is all abstract. Good grief.

 

[SeaBass]

Final salvation is but one aspect of salvation, it is that aspect that is not realised until we endure to the end.

Yet if that is all your definition includes then you too are viewing salvation as an abstraction. Instead of it being a positional state as the Calvinists teach, it is more a future state. Yet salvation is something that has a PRESENT MANIFESTATION and by excluding that from your definition then salvation itself loses all meaning.

The root word of salvation is SAVED and saved means "being saved from something." The Bible teaches we are "saved from sin" and THAT IS THE ISSUE which people ignore.

Paul wrote...

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Freed from sin.

All these false Christian's who argue in favour of ongoing sin utterly deny the reality of salvation being a MANIFEST RESCUE.

To expose their error all one has to do is expose that the salvation they teach is not salvation at all, thus any contention of OSAS becomes irrelevant.

OSAS is simply an error which naturally flows out from deeper error. It is the deeper error that has to be revealed whereby OSAS then collapses because it is without foundation.

Salvation/eternal life is not something one in this temporal, mortal, corruptible, earthly body can possess, but the faithful have the promise of eternal life, 1 Jn 2:25. And one can lose that promise for the promise of eternal life was NEVER an UNconditional promise.

 

[SeaBass]

Salvation is a one time event. Sanctification is a life long process. One does not start until the first has occurred. You cannot start on sanctification until you have first been saved. They are separate and to confuse them is to create the mess you have on your hands.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Can one become un-sanctified?

 

[notuptome]

I am discussing falling from salvation.

Scripturally impossible.

Those that have it know it. Those that don't are in your boat.

I know I have it because the Holy Spirit, Whom you deny, witnesses with my spirit that I am the Lord's. Romans 8:16

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Can one become un-sanctified?

Not un-sanctified but ceasing to continue on the path of sanctification. Stumbling in our walk with Christ.

Through sin that we commit knowing we ought not to do so. God is merciful to forgive but often needs to chastise us that we might grow and bear more fruit of His glory.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Skinski7]

Rom 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."

Counted (logizomai) means to put on one's account, to reckon and does not carry the idea of righteousness being transferred from Christ to the sinner. Instead the sinner through obedience to the gospel is transferred into Christ, clothed in Christ.

It is not error but BIBLICAL to say "clothed in Christ"

The NASB, and NIV render Gal 3:27 "For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."

The Holman Christian Standard Bible has "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ like a garment."

I almost rest my case but will try one more time. Your ears appear very much to be closed due to your theology.

The NIV was developed under the reformed tradition and is a very biased translation, that is why, for example, they translate "sarx" as sin nature in some places. Likewise their "clothing" is an appeal to their doctrine of "imputed righteousness of Christ."

You are clearly approaching these things from withing the framework of "theology" instead of simply applying what the Bible actually teaches.

Go and read early church writings and try and find anywhere they taught that we are "clothed with the righteousness of Christ." You won't find anything like that taught until the Reformation. By taking Reformed language and trying to bend it to fit your own theology you are just bringing injury upon yourself.

We put on Christ like a garment because that is a figurative way of expressing that we abide in the Spirit of His life. In other words we clothe ourselves with His being, His ways. Your issue though is that you say, "we are clothed by the righteousness of Christ" when we are not. We manifest the righteousness of Christ through a faith that works by love by means of abiding in the Spirit.

My entire point in writing you is to address the fundamentals of language and how you are trying to contend for "conditional salvation" within a framework of not defining salvation as being inclusive of a manifest state of heart purity. Likewise by using "clothed in the righteousness of Christ" you are using Reformed phraseology (which the reformed hearer will interpret according to their own definition) and use it against you just like crossnote did.

Paul warned us...

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.

 

[SeaBass]

Not un-sanctified but ceasing to continue on the path of sanctification. Stumbling in our walk with Christ.

Through sin that we commit knowing we ought not to do so. God is merciful to forgive but often needs to chastise us that we might grow and bear more fruit of His glory.



For the cause of Christ
Roger

So can one cease to continue on the path of sanctification yet still be saved, that is, become un-sanctifed but still saved?

 

[crossnote]

No. But one can fall from Christ due to unfaithfulness.

Jn 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me."

To qualify as one of Chris't sheep required a continued hearing and following both PRESENT TENSE (I just made a post earlier in this thread about eternal securists ignoring the present tense). One of his own free will chooses to hear and follow and one of that same freewill can choose to quit hearing and following and then no longer qualifies as one of Christ's sheep.

When we are born again we become His sheep with a sheep's nature. As sheep we hear the voice of the shepherd and follow Him, it's part of our new sheep nature...Yes, there are wolves seeking to lead us away from the Good Shepherd but He seeks , finds and restores His wayward sheep.

 

[Skinski7]

Salvation/eternal life is not something one in this temporal, mortal, corruptible, earthly body can possess, but the faithful have the promise of eternal life, 1 Jn 2:25. And one can lose that promise for the promise of eternal life was NEVER an UNconditional promise.

Salvation and eternal life are two different things.

Yes ultimate salvation can be inclusive of eternal life. Present salvation is inclusive of being set free from sin, ie. escaping the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Perhaps you too believe that we are born sinners and thus also resist the notion that we can escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. If that is the case then you are just as deceived as the Calvinists.

 

[SeaBass]

I almost rest my case but will try one more time. Your ears appear very much to be closed due to your theology.

The NIV was developed under the reformed tradition and is a very biased translation, that is why, for example, they translate "sarx" as sin nature in some places. Likewise their "clothing" is an appeal to their doctrine of "imputed righteousness of Christ."

You are clearly approaching these things from withing the framework of "theology" instead of simply applying what the Bible actually teaches.

Go and read early church writings and try and find anywhere they taught that we are "clothed with the righteousness of Christ." You won't find anything like that taught until the Reformation. By taking Reformed language and trying to bend it to fit your own theology you are just bringing injury upon yourself.

We put on Christ like a garment because that is a figurative way of expressing that we abide in the Spirit of His life. In other words we clothe ourselves with His being, His ways. Your issue though is that you say, "we are clothed by the righteousness of Christ" when we are not. We manifest the righteousness of Christ through a faith that works by love by means of abiding in the Spirit.

My entire point in writing you is to address the fundamentals of language and how you are trying to contend for "conditional salvation" within a framework of not defining salvation as being inclusive of a manifest state of heart purity. Likewise by using "clothed in the righteousness of Christ" you are using Reformed phraseology (which the reformed hearer will interpret according to their own definition) and use it against you just like crossnote did.

Paul warned us...

1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Ti 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.

Gal 3:27 clearly proves my point. One is clothed in Christ when he puts one Christ in baptism, one is clothed in Chris't perfect righteousness. The underlying Greek word actually carries the idea to put on clothes

 

[notuptome]

So can one cease to continue on the path of sanctification yet still be saved, that is, become un-sanctifed but still saved?

If you stop listening to your father are you still his son?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You defined perdition as:

perdition [apoleia - 1. destroying, utter destruction A. of vessels; 2. a perishing, ruin, destruction A. of money B. the destruction which consist of eternal misery in hell] but of them that believe to the saving [peripoiesis- preserved, preservation, to keep] of the soul [our life]

So one can draw back FROM SALVATION unto perdition/destruction/ruin/destruction which consist of eternal misery in hell.

Since one does not draw back from perdition unto perdition one must be drawing back FROM salvation UNTO perdition

Only those who are unwilling or hesitant to utter what they believe because of fear - Now if one is unwilling to utter what they believe then it stands to reason that they did not confess Jesus as Lord because of that fear AND WE ARE NOT AS ONE OF THOSE WHO SHRINK BACK BUT WE ARE OF THOSE THAT BELIEVE TO THE PRESERVATION OF THE SOUL [OUR LIFE].

The verses don't even SAY draw back FROM SALVATION . . . . you inserted that.

 

[SeaBass]

Salvation and eternal life are two different things.

Yes ultimate salvation can be inclusive of eternal life. Present salvation is inclusive of being set free from sin, ie. escaping the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Perhaps you too believe that we are born sinners and thus also resist the notion that we can escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. If that is the case then you are just as deceived as the Calvinists.

Salvation = eternal life and I do not believe it any other way.

 

[SeaBass]

If you stop listening to your father are you still his son?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The physical relationship is different than the spiritual relationship.

 

[SeaBass]

Only those who are unwilling or hesitant to utter what they believe because of fear - Now if one is unwilling to utter what they believe then it stands to reason that they did not confess Jesus as Lord because of that fear AND WE ARE NOT AS ONE OF THOSE WHO SHRINK BACK BUT WE ARE OF THOSE THAT BELIEVE TO THE PRESERVATION OF THE SOUL [OUR LIFE].

The verses don't even SAY draw back FROM SALVATION . . . . you inserted that.

Going back unto perdition rules out the "never really saved to begin with" excuse usually offered by eternal securists.

1) One could not go back unto perdition if he were always in perdition and had never left perdition. For one to go back unto perdition logically implies one got out of it no returns to it.

2) from what does one draw back from in order to go unto perdition? One is either in a saved position or a lost one, nothing inbetween. So for him to go back unto perdition means he MUST be leaving a saved position to enter back into that lost position. He cannot be going FROM perdition back UNTO perdition.

 

[mailmandan]

So God runs an 'In and Out' hamburger franchise?

Jesus is the door, He is not a revolving door.

 

[notuptome]

The physical relationship is different than the spiritual relationship.

God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and in truth.

God does not deal in physical relationships but in Spiritual relationships. Physical relationships are for idols not for God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger