confused

[tella]

I had asked this question on another place but it was the wrong one, so here I am again with the same question. I am confused about where we go when we die. I know there is a heaven and hell, I know that for sure. It's just do we automatically go there right after death, or do we just go to sleep until jesus comes again and then we will be judged and be sent where we are destined to be then on. Does it say that in the bible anywhere. That the dead will walk among the living and there is going to be a new heaven.

If we don't go straight there then why do preachers talk about it and at funerals they talk about how the dead are in heaven watching over us now. I hope that someone can help me to understand this better.

Tella

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

It all depends on whether or not a person is born again of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

Jesus said that if you live and believe in me you shall never die. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Also, Psalms 139 is a comfort to many concerning this.

 

[ISeeYou]

Who would the dead in Christ be referring to verses them who are alive and remain at his coming?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Who would the dead in Christ be referring to verses them who are alive and remain at his coming?

I always wondered why Paul chose that word dead (like sleep) because Jesus said in Mark 12:27 "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err."

But we also know some souls would rest as shown here in Revelation 6:9-11[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

The dead in Christ are those not in a functioning earthen vessel. We dont know what we shall be, but we know we will be lkke Him, for we will see Him as He is. When the new earth is revealed, we will have earthen vessels made out of the new earth.

 

[ISeeYou]

I always wondered why Paul chose that word dead (like sleep) because Jesus said in Mark 12:27 "He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err."

But we also know some souls would rest as shown here in Revelation 6:9-11[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

I have the same word dead nekros used 132 times in both verses even the corrective one in Mark 12:27 though

Dead nekros

1. properly
   1. one that has breathed his last, lifeless
   2. deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell
   3. destitute of life, without life, inanimate
2. metaph.
   1. spiritually dead
      1. destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
      2. inactive as respects doing right
   2. destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative
3. Sure we can go to the fifth seal and look there and God telling them to rest a little more

But there is those in Christ who are alive and remain to his coming and those who are dead in Christ, the word use these can be used for either.

But he seems consistent, whether he used the word dead or sleep to show they which remain are those who are alive and those who are asleep are those who have passed on.

For example here

But in 1 Cr 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

See what I mean?

Because look at Stephen when he was being stoned who said Lord receive my spirit,

Acts 7:60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

And we know, though it says asleep there is that he was buried

Acts 8:2And devout men carried Stephen to his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

And so we know its not speaking of being spiritually dead there

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I believe it does speak of the body, but you don't have to wait for the new earth because it happens at the last trump.

1 Corinthians 15:51-55[SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[SUP]55 [/SUP]O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

So the souls of them were in heaven, but the dead speaks of the body being changed. I guess we need to remember we are body, soul, and spirit.

 

[ISeeYou]

The dead in Christ are those not in a functioning earthen vessel. We dont know what we shall be, but we know we will be lkke Him, for we will see Him as He is. When the new earth is revealed, we will have earthen vessels made out of the new earth.

They seem dead and buried

1Thes 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[ISeeYou]

I believe it does speak of the body, but you don't have to wait for the new earth because it happens at the last trump.

1 Corinthians 15:51-55[SUP]51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[SUP]54 [/SUP]So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[SUP]55 [/SUP]O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

So the souls of them were in heaven, but the dead speaks of the body being changed. I guess we need to remember we are body, soul, and spirit.

Yeah I believe those that are alive and remain would be of those who shall not all sleep, but shall be changed, if thats what you mean.

Whats really strange about that O death verse is that its followed up by the law notice that?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Yeah I believe those that are alive and remain would be of those who shall not all sleep, but shall be changed, if thats what you mean.

Whats really strange about that O death verse is that its followed up by the law notice that?

No, I'm talking about the body of both the living and the dead. Notice here Paul is speaking of the dead bodies (not souls) in
1 Corinthians 15:35-44[SUP]35 [/SUP]But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
[SUP]38 [/SUP]But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[SUP]44 [/SUP]It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

 

[4enlightment]

I had asked this question on another place but it was the wrong one, so here I am again with the same question. I am confused about where we go when we die. I know there is a heaven and hell, I know that for sure. It's just do we automatically go there right after death, or do we just go to sleep until jesus comes again and then we will be judged and be sent where we are destined to be then on. Does it say that in the bible anywhere. That the dead will walk among the living and there is going to be a new heaven.

If we don't go straight there then why do preachers talk about it and at funerals they talk about how the dead are in heaven watching over us now. I hope that someone can help me to understand this better.

Tella

Before Jesus died on the cross, they waited in the realm of death, until Jesus came. But those that wasn't declared to be righteous, were left in their graves. And so if we die, we goes up or down.

Matthew 13:17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Matthew 27:52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

Luke 23:43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Luke 16:24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Because look at Stephen when he was being stoned who said Lord receive my spirit,

Acts 7:60And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

And we know, though it says asleep there is that he was buried

Acts 8:2And devout men carried Stephento his burial, and made great lamentation over him.

And so we know its not speaking of being spiritually dead there

Stephen's last request of God was to receive his spirit. He was present with the Lord the instant he died physically.

When people are buried in a grave, their body will decompose, perhaps leaving signs of bones centuries later. Wit h no brain, how could those bones know anything, or "sleep"?

If you eat a shark steak yuo might be ingesting part of someone, but are they really there? Recycled molecules have a chemical "memory" of sorts, but no soul, no remembrance of the past use of them. So no, nobody is resting inside our stomach. The Bible teaches that people await the judgment, their bodies still in a sea, a grave, a brick in a building, but the person is held somewhere while the old body undergoes much change in earth. The person goes to hell or to heaven. At the judgment God will bring those in hell out and into his presence, standing them on their feet.

Revelation 20:12-15 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I emphasized hell delivered up the dead which were in them because it doesn't make sense for a human to be present in more than one place st once, in a grave and in hell. The body is not our "person". We leave the body to "rest" in physical death, though no dead body can do anything, even rest. Our rest is in Christ, especially when we die and are present with him as he is. What's written of us in the Book of Life is what matters, God able to issue a new body like Jesus got as a man, dead, buried and risen. We have promise of the same, to receive our glorified body.

 

[ISeeYou]

No, I'm talking about the body of both the living and the dead. Notice here Paul is speaking of the dead bodies (not souls) in
1 Corinthians 15:35-44[SUP]35 [/SUP]But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
[SUP]38 [/SUP]But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[SUP]44 [/SUP]It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Yes I am talking about the body being dead, the dead in Christ, like Stephen, I wasnt seeing him as being spiritually dead but carnally dead, or as the body without the spirit is dead (even as he said, "Lord receive my spirit") and fell asleep which word can be used for those who are dead in Christ (physically so). I will not discuss any other questions here, I dont want to further confuse the issue for her.

 

[ISeeYou]

Stephen's last request of God was to receive his spirit. He was present with the Lord the instant he died physically.

When people are buried in a grave, their body will decompose, perhaps leaving signs of bones centuries later. Wit h no brain, how could those bones know anything, or "sleep"?

If you eat a shark steak yuo might be ingesting part of someone, but are they really there? Recycled molecules have a chemical "memory" of sorts, but no soul, no remembrance of the past use of them. So no, nobody is resting inside our stomach. The Bible teaches that people await the judgment, their bodies still in a sea, a grave, a brick in a building, but the person is held somewhere while the old body undergoes much change in earth. The person goes to hell or to heaven. At the judgment God will bring those in hell out and into his presence, standing them on their feet.

Revelation 20:12-15 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I emphasized hell delivered up the dead which were in them because it doesn't make sense for a human to be present in more than one place st once, in a grave and in hell. The body is not our "person". We leave the body to "rest" in physical death, though no dead body can do anything, even rest. Our rest is in Christ, especially when we die and are present with him as he is. What's written of us in the Book of Life is what matters, God able to issue a new body like Jesus got as a man, dead, buried and risen. We have promise of the same, to receive our glorified body.

I didnt think our body was our person, and I am already of the camp that believes you are present with the Lord, but I am rethinking things.

Although I do know better then to do that openly I should do that in private, and then come forward say something if there is too much conflicting in a thing.

The sea gave up the dead that was in it too, why are the dead in the sea alongside death and hell with all the dead in them?

Theres a question for you.

Maybe you can help there

 

[jaybird88]

the answers you are searching for, details on heaven, what happens when we die, i don't think are answers people can give you, knowledge like this has to be revealed to those that are prepared to accept. the more study and devotion you apply, the more will be revealed. not to worry, it sounds like your heart is turned in the right direction and as long as you don't turn away from this you can start by accepting that YES, there is a good place to go when you die, and NO, its not over and done with when you die.
hope that helps

 

[Cycel]

It all depends on whether or not a person is born again of the Holy Spirit.

It all depends on which verses you read.

 

[Cycel]

I had asked this question on another place but it was the wrong one, so here I am again with the same question. I am confused about where we go when we die....
Tella

I hope you find your answer.

Best wishes and welcome to the forum.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I didnt think our body was our person, and I am already of the camp that believes you are present with the Lord, but I am rethinking things.

Although I do know better then to do that openly I should do that in private, and then come forward say something if there is too much conflicting in a thing.

The sea gave up the dead that was in it too, why are the dead in the sea alongside death and hell with all the dead in them?

Theres a question for you.

Maybe you can help there

An example of the sea giving up bodies whose spirits are in hell or heaven is the 1,102 men entombed in the battleship U.S. Arizona at Pearl Harbor. That is their grave. Wherever a dead body is on earth, perhaps mere dust rolling across the ground, all will stand before God. That will be bodies, souls, and spirits all reunited in one like we are now, though not able to ever die like we will soon if the Lord tarries.

Keep in mind Jesus couldn't tell a false doctrine to teach a holy doctrine. Even his parables had to be based on real truth, else his basis would be false. The story of the rich man in hell and Lazarus the dead beggar in Luke 16 must represent what's real.

 

[ISeeYou]

An example of the sea giving up bodies whose spirits are in hell or heaven is the 1,102 men entombed in the battleship U.S. Arizona at Pearl Harbor. That is their grave. Wherever a dead body is on earth, perhaps mere dust rolling across the ground, all will stand before God. That will be bodies, souls, and spirits all reunited in one like we are now, though not able to ever die like we will soon if the Lord tarries.

Keep in mind Jesus couldn't tell a false doctrine to teach a holy doctrine. Even his parables had to be based on real truth, else his basis would be false. The story of the rich man in hell and Lazarus the dead beggar in Luke 16 must represent what's real.

Well, verdy interesting thank you so much for that. No further questions, you have told me all I needed to know then.