contradiction or not?

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Feb 17, 2010
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#41
ALL creation is part of God... it is God's creation. So there you are in err. If God did not make it it does not exist. if it exists, GOD CREATED IT.... Satan and the devil as he is also knows is as much part of God's creation as Jesus Himself....

Satan did not creates HIMSELF... GOD DID... So my friend you are in err...Althoug I do agree the light, God has NO tea parties or communion with darkness ( Satan) but BOTH is equally real.

God is Light, and in HIM IS NO DARKNESS, and Satan is darkness, in Him is no light. But God mae BOTH... If there was only God or light, there would have not been darkness or Satan.... Darkness is not part of light, darkness is where God is not! Where God is there is light, and where satan is there is darkness.... Where God is is love, and NO ANGER, where sinning anger is there is Satan and no love or God.

David had the SATAN as father and LORD, that is why all those men died for the sin David committed... God will NEVER let you die for my sin, Satan is the murderer from the beginning. God gives life. Satan seek to murder, steal and destroy.


All you have to do is discern what is ACTIONS in the LIGHT, and ACTIONS in the DARK... then you understand the two entities...Satan is DARK and commands DARK ACTIONS (SIN) God is light and COMAND righteousness (no sin)
 
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
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#42
Satan is a liar, a hater, and a deceiver. He is in no way a servant or part of the Lord. He is a rebel and a usurper of the Throne of Earth.
Satan does indeed serve the Lord. He teaches what not to do.
 

Nick01

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2013
1,272
26
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#43
Sooooo...

The question is what is with the different number of years given by Gad regarding famine in Samuel and Chronicles. We're not discussing why David took a census. If you guys want to discuss the specifics of Satan, start another thread, because it's irrelevant to this one.

In fact, a number of plausibilities regarding the original question were posted weeks ago, and the thread finished at a satisfying place, I thought.

Nothing to see here, folks, move along.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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#44
It was posted "the LXX is around 1000 years older . . . than the MT."

As to the Aleppo Codex of the MT, it is dated 10th century, Vaticanus is dated 4th Century.

I myself don't believe that we have the LXX, aside from fragments. I think that what we have is a Greek OT produced by Christians who used the LXX in producing their OT. I don't think that either Vaticanus or Alexandrinus says "Septuagint" anywhere on it. But I am no LXX expert.
 

oldhermit

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
613
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Alabama
#45
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/three_years_or_seven_years_of_famine.htm

God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13). [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](b) Three (1 Chronicles 21:12). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Those Christians who continue to use the modern versions like the NASB, NIV, and NKJV will typically answer these objections in this way which is taken directly from the Apologetics Index. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"It is probably a copyist error and the better preserved text renders the famine as three years -- Walvoord, John F., and Zuck, Roy B., The Bible Knowledge Commentary, (Wheaton, Illinois: Scripture Press Publications, Inc.) 1983, 1985." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Another modern version site by the name of Tecktonic.org Apologetics Ministries has this to say: "Were there seven years of famine offered, or three (per 1 Chronicles 21:11)? Three is the more likely reading, favored by the LXX and by symmetry with the other punishments offered (three months of flight from enemies, three days of plague). Samuel was hit by a copyist error. See our foundational essay on copyist errors for general background. " [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, Samuel was hit by a copyist error, was he? Where was God during this whole process? [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Another site that calls itself Rational Christianity - Christian Apologetics, which uses the NKJV has this to say: "This is a copyist error Presumably the correct number is three, since the other choices are threes. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bible corrector Adam Clark confidently (and mistakenly) affirms: �Shall seven years of famine - In 1 Chronicles 21:12, the number is three, not seven; and here the Septuagint has three, the same as in Chronicles: this is no doubt the true reading.� [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]John Gill at least offers a reasonable explanation. He writes: �in (1 Chronicles 21:12) , only "three years" are mentioned, and so the Septuagint version here; but Josephus , the Targum, the Syriac and Arabic versions, have the number "seven"... for the reconciling of which let it be observed, that there had been three years of famine already on account of the sin of Saul, (2 Samuel 21:1) ; and in the current year, through the rains not falling in the proper time, the land was barren and unfruitful.. and the sense is, shall there be a continuance of seven years of famine, that is, three more added to what had been?� [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jamieson, Fausset and Brown likewise see the simple truth when they comment: �Shall seven years of famine come unto thee--that is, in addition to the three that had been already, with the current year included (see on 1Ch 21:11).� [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In 2 Samuel 24: 13 the prophet Gad comes to David and says: "Shall SEVEN years of famine come unto thee in thy land?" [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SEVEN years is the reading of the Hebrew text here as the NIV, RSV, NRSV, and ESV footnotes tell us. The reading of THREE YEARS comes from the Greek Septuagint version, but not the Hebrew. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The false reading in 2 Samuel 24:13 of THREE years is found in the NIV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, NEB, Bible in Basic English, The Message, the Holman Standard, the 1989 Revised English Bible, the New Living Translation and the latest Catholic versions like the St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, the Jerusalem bible 1968 and the New Jerusalem bible 1985. However the older Catholic bibles like the Douay-Rheims and the 1950 Douay had the correct Hebrew reading of "SEVEN years". [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Those versions that agree with the KJB and the Hebrew reading of SEVEN years are: Wycliffe 1395, Coverdale 1535, the Bishops' Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1599, the Revised Version of 1881, the 1901 ASV, the Jewish translations of 1917, 1936, the Complete Jewish Bible, the Hebrew Names Version, even Daniel Wallace's NET version, the Spanish Reina Valera 1909, 1960, 1995, the Italian Diodati 1649, Riveduta 1927, the New Diodati 1991, the French Martin 1744, Louis Segond 1910, Ostervald 1996, the Portuguese Almeida, and O Livro 2000, Martin Luther's German Bible 1545, Rotherham's Emphasized bible 1902, Lamsa's 1936 translation of the Syriac, the Modern Greek version (not to be confused with the so called LXX), the NASB, Douay, Young's, the New Berkeley Version 1969, the NKJV 1982, the New Life Bible, and even the Living Bible and the Amplified bible. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is really a very simple "contradiction" to solve if one just believes God's word as found in the King James Bible and takes the time to read it carefully. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Only in the book of 2 Samuel are we told in chapter 21:1 "Then there was a famine in the days of David THREE years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. And the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Gibeonites." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]David then, as requested by the Gibeonites, had seven men of the sons of Saul put to death by hanging in "the days of harvest, in the first days, in the beginning of the barley harvest." This couldn't have been much of a harvest because the famine was still in the land. They would then have to wait till next year for a good crop. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Next we read of king David telling Joab to go and number the people of Israel. This census taking seems to have been a vain attempt by David to boast in the power of the flesh. See how stong I am and how many people I command. This was the sin that brought about the threatened judgment of more famine by God. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]It is important to see that this numbering of the people took a period of 9 months and 20 days as is noted in 2 Samuel 24:8. "So when they had gone through all the land, they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So, what we have here is four years of famine that had already preceeded the time when Gad comes to David and says in 2 Samuel 24:13 "Shall SEVEN years of famine come unto thee in the land?" [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But when we look at 1 Chronicles, there is no mention of the famine that had already been going on before David numbered the people. There in 1 Chronicles we read: "Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee either THREE years' famine: or three months to be destroyed before thy foes...or else three days the sword of LORD, even the pestilence..." [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So to answer the question: "Were there seven years of famine or only three?", the correct answer is BOTH. There were seven years of famine altogether; four had already occurred and three more years were threatened as a further judgment. [/FONT]
 
C

CRC

Guest
#46
That would be perhaps best termed a "variation" and not a contradiction. Copyist's error?? One cannot say only speculate!