Contradiction?

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Dec 12, 2013
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It sounds like your whole case has been that the Gospel that Paul preaches is a different Gospel than the one the 12 preached, even after the Cross. And I'm not talking about the Gospel of the Kingdom (Millennium).
The problem literally comes from a misunderstanding of the word Gospel.....the word carries the idea of a "correct message" and is not necessarily GOOD NEWS.....that is a modern twist on the word....there is but ONE CORRECT MESSAGE or GOSPEL of salvation.....always has been but one....but there are also numerous other "correct messages" concerning the kingdom, the law, grace, sanctification etc......when we view the word under the banner of the or a correct message the truth becomes evident.......note....not saying the gospel of our salvation is not good news, but rather that the gospel of salvation equates to the CORRECT MESSAGE of salvtion....and there has always been but ONE correct message of SALVATION (Gospel).......
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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The problem literally comes from a misunderstanding of the word Gospel.....the word carries the idea of a "correct message" and is not necessarily GOOD NEWS.....that is a modern twist on the word....there is but ONE CORRECT MESSAGE or GOSPEL of salvation.....always has been but one....but there are also numerous other "correct messages" concerning the kingdom, the law, grace, sanctification etc......when we view the word under the banner of the or a correct message the truth becomes evident.......note....not saying the gospel of our salvation is not good news, but rather that the gospel of salvation equates to the CORRECT MESSAGE of salvtion....and there has always been but ONE correct message of SALVATION (Gospel).......
Well good buddy, I'm going to have to take exception on that one...

εὐαγγέλιον, ου, τό. good news; in the NT only of God's message of salvation gospel, good news; (1) as denoting the act of proclamation preaching of the gospel (1C 4.15); (2) as denoting the work of evangelization cause, service, or spread of the gospel (PH 4.3); (3) as denoting the content of the message as an offer of salvation gospel, good news, God's message (1C 9.14a) ANLEX

Even in Greek eu = good and angelion = message
 
Mar 14, 2011
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God's children are being judged as they live here in this life by the rod of God through his chastening. We are under the safety of the protective hedge that God has around his children. If we are tempted by our lustful nature and step outside of that hedge we subject ourselves to the firey darts of satan.
His children?

The bible says he will rule the world, and the HS does the chastening, not jesus, so 2 strikes against this thought,
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Sorry not buying that at all....Jesus said clearly the OT pointed to him and the men/women of the bible understood this.....I believe your assessment is wrong.....
He said all th OT pointed to jesus, and you said you disagree, the OT does point to jesus,

Did you misread? Lol
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Does not matter what they understood....Job understood it, Eve understood it (translate what she says when she has Cain) Abel understood the siginificance of the blood by faith, You are calling Jesus a liar by your view....HE SAID THE LAW AND PROPHETS pointed to HIM...Isaiah 53 is a prime example....Job, which is the oldest book fully comprehended his redeemer and that he would stand again in the resurrection....sorry bro...you assessment denies the very words of Jesus......ABRAHAM understood sacrificing ISAAC and belived in the resurrection from the dead and fully understood GOD providing a RAM in the thicket.....there are too many evidences given that prove the point....yes it was in pictures, types, shadows and even direct prophecy.....but was UNDERSTANDABLE....DAVID even writes of and speaks of HIS SALVATION IN THE PRESENT TENSE....he could not have been saved had he not understood the significance of the messiah amd his blood atonement......
They could not understand it was the messiah, the OT never named the suffering servant, who would die and redeem the people. The messiah was named as a king who would never die.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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the word gospl is actually a term used in the roman government, when the ceasar would make a proclamation to the people , he would send out a gospel message,

It signified

1. The message is from the king
2. It should be given utmost priority

3. It is a message of “good news”
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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Ok, so you are saying the msg Paul received on the Damascus road was the message of grace to the Gentiles. Let's look and see what was said...

"And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”
(Act 9:4-6)

How in the world is that the Gospel to the Gentiles???
So the forty days that Jesus spent with His disciples after His resurrection was just a head fake even though He told them to preach the Gospel to the whole world teaching them to observe all that He commanded?

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)

But along comes Paul with a 'better way' and Matthew's charge goes down the drain along with the 40 days of teaching?
So the forty days that Jesus spent with His disciples after His resurrection was just a head fake even though He told them to preach the Gospel to the whole world teaching them to observe all that He commanded?

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)

But along comes Paul with a 'better way' and Matthew's charge goes down the drain along with the 40 days of teaching?
It wasn’t a head fake, it was the Gospel of the Kingdom, same as in Matthew 24: 14

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come

....this happens during the tribulation, before the Millennial Reign....
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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Ok, so you are saying the msg Paul received on the Damascus road was the message of grace to the Gentiles. Let's look and see what was said...

"And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”
(Act 9:4-6)

How in the world is that the Gospel to the Gentiles???
Ok, so you are saying the msg Paul received on the Damascus road was the message of grace to the Gentiles. Let's look and see what was said...

"And falling to the ground, he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”
(Act 9:4-6)

How in the world is that the Gospel to the Gentiles???
It Is where it started...he gets saved, Christ says he has great things to show him...geeese can you not at least act interested? Is it torture for you? Are we not studying? I am learning also.....

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Do you already know what Christ taught him? Will it not reflect in his Epistles?
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Well good buddy, I'm going to have to take exception on that one...

εὐαγγέλιον, ου, τό. good news; in the NT only of God's message of salvation gospel, good news; (1) as denoting the act of proclamation preaching of the gospel (1C 4.15); (2) as denoting the work of evangelization cause, service, or spread of the gospel (PH 4.3); (3) as denoting the content of the message as an offer of salvation gospel, good news, God's message (1C 9.14a) ANLEX

Even in Greek eu = good and angelion = message
That's ok......My Greek teacher caught hell from the other teachers in seminary as well.....dig deeper
 
Dec 12, 2013
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They could not understand it was the messiah, the OT never named the suffering servant, who would die and redeem the people. The messiah was named as a king who would never die.
yeah....I disagree....they fully understood the concept of the redeemer as evidenced by Job, Ruth, Psalms, David etc.....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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He said all th OT pointed to jesus, and you said you disagree, the OT does point to jesus,

Did you misread? Lol
I disagreed with his second point.....and you have read enough of me to know I have always said the OT points to Christ......
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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It Is where it started...he gets saved, Christ says he has great things to show him...geeese can you not at least act interested? Is it torture for you? Are we not studying? I am learning also.....
Many people 'get saved' and God directs their steps. Nothing new here.

geeese can you not at least act interested? Is it torture for you? Are we not studying? I am learning also..
I've been through the Mid Acts doctrine that you are espousing. Read their books and literature and went to a M.A.D. assembly a number of years back. I know their arguments, I went, I learned but I ended up NOT buying their T-Shirt and have had hopes you wouldn't either. All the arguments you put forth, I have learned...I see nothing there. Sorry.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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It wasn’t a head fake, it was the Gospel of the Kingdom, same as in Matthew 24: 14

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come

....this happens during the tribulation, before the Millennial Reign....
Ok so you are saying what Jesus taught the disciples for 40 days after His resurrection was the Gospel of the Kingdom. Then answer me this, why did Jesus say...

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)

Why would He tell them to teach all Gentile nations? (I thought only Paul had that message to the Gentiles).

Notice Jesus is telling them right then to 'go' not in a future Kingdom Age.
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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Ok so you are saying what Jesus taught the disciples for 40 days after His resurrection was the Gospel of the Kingdom. Then answer me this, why did Jesus say...

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)

Why would He tell them to teach all Gentile nations? (I thought only Paul had that message to the Gentiles).

Notice Jesus is telling them right then to 'go' not in a future Kingdom Age.
The turn to the gentiles didn’t happen yet, not until the stoning of Stephen, when Stephen looked up, the heavens opened, and he saw Christ “standing” at the right hand of God, and cried out not to hold it against them....now you know, when Christ stands “UP” somebody screwed up......and notice, straight way to the introduction of young Saul, and we know who he became....Acts 7

56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Is it not obvious this is the moment God turns to the gentiles, and the Kingdom of God is put on hold until the gentiles come into fullness? And at the end of the church age comes tribulation? God stopped the program, until the Millennial Reign
 

Rightlydivided

Active member
Dec 26, 2018
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Ok so you are saying what Jesus taught the disciples for 40 days after His resurrection was the Gospel of the Kingdom. Then answer me this, why did Jesus say...

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20 KJV)

Why would He tell them to teach all Gentile nations? (I thought only Paul had that message to the Gentiles).

Notice Jesus is telling them right then to 'go' not in a future Kingdom Age.

I mean really, if everything was honky dory, why is Christ standing up for a stoning, after Matthew 28 19:20? The heavens opened? I would say this was a game changer and not your usual prophetic dream
 

oldethennew

Senior Member
Feb 28, 2016
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MARK 4:39.
And He arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I mean really, if everything was honky dory, why is Christ standing up for a stoning, after Matthew 28 19:20? The heavens opened? I would say this was a game changer and not your usual prophetic dream
Thanks for not answering my questions.
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
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1 Timothy 2:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And...

Matthew 20:28 King James Version (KJV)

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for MANY.

Why “many” in Matthews and “all” in 1 Timothy?
It's God's Will for all mankind to be saved, but most will not choose to be. But God made it possible for every person.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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yeah....I disagree....they fully understood the concept of the redeemer as evidenced by Job, Ruth, Psalms, David etc.....!
They understood the concept of redeemer I agree. Not that the redeemer and the messiah were the same. That was part of thenidden mystery of God.