Could you have a false prophet for a Pastor?

[pablocito]

Yes, but it’s actually not as simple as that. There are deceiving spirits and doctrines from demons. How do you think demons get their doctrines out into the world? They whisper in a prophet’s ear, so to speak, and he or she may have thought it was a message from God. Whoopsie daisy. It’s necessary to know the voice of God. This comes through relationship and experience.

I agree with you on being able to recognize the voice of God, for God is the final word.

There are 2 bible stories that come to my mind.

The man of God who went to Israel to Jeroboam to deliver God's message to him.
However God specifically told him not to return the way he came, nor to enter anyone's house to eat.

An old prophet of God came to that man of God and told him that God told him to return with him, and sup with him at his house.
The man of God returned with the prophet to sup at his house.
After he left the prophet's house he was killed by a lion in the way.

The morale of the story is not even to listen to a true prophet of God, when God has already spoken to you.

The second is Paul the Apostle.
Prior to going to Rome, Paul decided to go to Jerusalem to see the brethren there.

Paul was dissuaded by different people not to go to Jerusalem, including a prophet of God, who told him he would be bound in Jerusalem by those who wanted to kill him.

Paul decided to disregard all attempts by anyone to stop him, knowing that he was ready to die for his faith. Paul went to Jerusalem, with many attempts on his life but successfully navigated the system and found himself in Rome, where he was able to do God's work.

In these last days God has not sent anyone to do anything. The only thing that we have been told to do is to live in the spirit. (which include being a light to those who cross our path)

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

Peter was told by Jesus Christ that when he was converted to strengthen the brethren.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lastly Peter was told by Jesus in John 21 to feed all of his sheep, in all his folds.

Peter (1st & 2nd Peter address the end-times of this world), and also John (1st, 2nd & 3rd John & Revelation) does the same thing.

God has not forgotten us and we have to take care to live in the spirit as this is what Jesus told the Samaritan woman at the well.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Things were different in the 1st Century but was starting to change from the traditions that were being practiced when Jesus came to this earth.
1st Corinthians explains exactly the beginning from the ending.

 

[Gojira]

Ezekiel 13.​

Could there be false Pastors & Teachers in your Church?...​

​

Loooong post... I skimmed through it, hope my response is appropriate.

Of course there are false prophets, false messengers, non-Christians in churches, etc. I'll give some examples.

* All of those "prophets" who said Trump was going to be given the keys to the White House in the 2020 election. They should be held accountable.

* There was a "prophet" (Dana?? Not sure) who warned that we all ought to take our retirement funds out before the 2020 election because an upheaval was coming that fall.

* Pat Robertson.

* Kim Clement.

* I worked for a "pastor" several years ago when my career was in a coma and I needed any job. The guy was hands-down the worst boss I've ever had. I'd call him an a-hole, but even that part of the body serves a purpose. He talked the talk, was real good at it too. But, his walk was quite another matter.

Employee turnover under him was all too frequent. People who loved the job left it. He felt hurt or bewildered and couldn't figure out why. Well, he was a tyrant wannabe. He was dishonest. Without really knowing much about me, he said one day I'd be a deacon in his church. Church leaders need to have proven walks. He didn't know me long enough. He also said that since he was my employer that he was also my pastor. Therefore, he had a pastor's spiritual authority over me. I told him I already have a church with a pastor. He didn't seem to fully accept this.

His late wife, in her hospital bed, shared with another Christian women (who later shared this with me) that her husband, "Pastor Jimmy" (of UCC of Glendale, CA), was an abusive husband and loved money.

He once advised me that in order to get out of my poor employment situation that I marry rich. He wasn't making a joke. Sorry, that is not pastoral advice.

His associate pastor was also dishonest (he broke his word to me one morning) and a less than competent supervisor to boot.

There are pastors who lead churches with rainbow flags hanging. There are pastors who promote abortion. There's a church here in the Phoenix area which apparently has a "trans-woman" leading worship services.

Yep, plenty of BS in the church. Maybe this is why America's so sick and starting to rot. It's preservative salt is losing its saltiness.

 

[gb9]

read what Israel was doing in the books of Isaiah and Ezekiel and see the similarities in them and what you just said.

 

[Gojira]

read what Israel was doing in the books of Isaiah and Ezekiel and see the similarities in them and what you just said.

I know.

 

[pablocito]

​

Loooong post... I skimmed through it, hope my response is appropriate.

Of course there are false prophets, false messengers, non-Christians in churches, etc. I'll give some examples.

* All of those "prophets" who said Trump was going to be given the keys to the White House in the 2020 election. They should be held accountable.

* There was a "prophet" (Dana?? Not sure) who warned that we all ought to take our retirement funds out before the 2020 election because an upheaval was coming that fall.

* Pat Robertson.

* Kim Clement.

* I worked for a "pastor" several years ago when my career was in a coma and I needed any job. The guy was hands-down the worst boss I've ever had. I'd call him an a-hole, but even that part of the body serves a purpose. He talked the talk, was real good at it too. But, his walk was quite another matter.

Employee turnover under him was all too frequent. People who loved the job left it. He felt hurt or bewildered and couldn't figure out why. Well, he was a tyrant wannabe. He was dishonest. Without really knowing much about me, he said one day I'd be a deacon in his church. Church leaders need to have proven walks. He didn't know me long enough. He also said that since he was my employer that he was also my pastor. Therefore, he had a pastor's spiritual authority over me. I told him I already have a church with a pastor. He didn't seem to fully accept this.

His late wife, in her hospital bed, shared with another Christian women (who later shared this with me) that her husband, "Pastor Jimmy" (of UCC of Glendale, CA), was an abusive husband and loved money.

He once advised me that in order to get out of my poor employment situation that I marry rich. He wasn't making a joke. Sorry, that is not pastoral advice.

His associate pastor was also dishonest (he broke his word to me one morning) and a less than competent supervisor to boot.

There are pastors who lead churches with rainbow flags hanging. There are pastors who promote abortion. There's a church here in the Phoenix area which apparently has a "trans-woman" leading worship services.

Yep, plenty of BS in the church. Maybe this is why America's so sick and starting to rot. It's preservative salt is losing its saltiness.

Jesus Christ the central theme, really, the only theme of the bible for these last days, encapsulated the means or the way of salvation in one verse - John 3:16

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The operative word in this verse is believeth (whosoever).

God transcends our logic our systems our inventions and our imaginations.

He who believeth will be saved, nothing more, nothing less.

End of story.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I would not dare teach the bible in this age.

Then DON"T. Whatever's not of FAITH, is SIN. (Rom 14:23)

If you taught a false doctrine 20 years ago [/quote}

But what if I taught TRUE doctrine 50 years ago, as sourced to me by the Holy Spirit- or even 50 years ago. What was true in '73, is still true.

 

[pablocito]

Then DON"T. Whatever's not of FAITH, is SIN. (Rom 14:23)

The bible has told me not to accuse, even Satan, because God ultimately is in charge and Satan is an instrument of God.

Paul had even turned over leaders in his chuch to Satan so that they would learn not to blaspheme.

Apparently you fail to recognize the infinite nature of God and his Word, the bible. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. His ways are past finding out.

Unfortunately I am not able to share with some of the deeper truths of the bible because you fail to understand the fundamentals, you would be thoroughly confused even by the elementary things.

Jesus told Nicodemus a similar thing. If he could not understand earthly things, how is it that he was going to understand heavenly things.

I am not sorry to be critical of you but this is for the benefit of the hundreds of people who may be on this site and who may come across this post that they may learn not to take the name of God or the word of God in vain.
Fear God and keep his commandments - a quote by the wisest man on earth. This was his summary of entirety of man's duty to God.

 

[Grandpa]

The bible has told me not to accuse, even Satan, because God ultimately is in charge and Satan is an instrument of God.

Paul had even turned over leaders in his chuch to Satan so that they would learn not to blaspheme.

Apparently you fail to recognize the infinite nature of God and his Word, the bible. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. His ways are past finding out.

Unfortunately I am not able to share with some of the deeper truths of the bible because you fail to understand the fundamentals, you would be thoroughly confused even by the elementary things.

Jesus told Nicodemus a similar thing. If he could not understand earthly things, how is it that he was going to understand heavenly things.

I am not sorry to be critical of you but this is for the benefit of the hundreds of people who may be on this site and who may come across this post that they may learn not to take the name of God or the word of God in vain.
Fear God and keep his commandments - a quote by the wisest man on earth. This was his summary of entirety of man's duty to God.

I would not DARE to teach the bible in this day and age....

What do you think you just did in that post?

 

[pablocito]

I would not DARE to teach the bible in this day and age....

What do you think you just did in that post?

You are mixing up the meanings between "sharing" and "teaching".

Teaching in the bible has a special meaning, not a carnal one or a secular one.
Teaching in the bible can only be done after and again I say only after you have been sent. And sent only by God or by the Lord Jesus Christ, who sent his apostles out into the world, just as God sent him to the people of the 1st century.

If you claim that you are a teacher, you have to be given the authority to do so. Jesus Christ sent his disciples whom he also named as apostles to teach and preach to the ends of the earth.

These disciples were given power in their lifetime to empower others. In fact Jesus told them greater things than I have done, you will do. Their power was so extensive that they were given power to bind and lose on earth and thus also it would be done in heaven.

Now the meaning of sharing in the bible is what Peter said in 1st Peter 3:15

1Pe_3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Jesus summed it up best when he told us to be a light in the world. Talk often is cheap and being a light is a "by your fruits you will be known" directive.

This is basically impossible for us to do over the internet and thus you should be able to understand how evil and wicked a world we live in, when we cannot trust no one whatsoever over the internet as the devil could be on the opposite end of our call or rather our conversation.

Again I always preface my conversation with anyone that I do not debate the bible nor do I teach anything but am willing to share my personal testimony with anyone who asks or is interested in hearing.

I have to say that I will be wrong if I try to persuade into accepting my belief against their will. This is not of God.
And if I did come across this way to you then I have to repent before God for this transgression. And well if it appeared that way to you then I will apologize to you, even though it was never my intention to do so.

No man has ever taught me anything and likewise it would be against my belief to teach any man anything. But being a light to the world is a commandment of God.

Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men,that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I am not sorry to be critical of you

I bet you LIVE for it.

 

[pablocito]

I bet you LIVE for it.

The man who cannot take criticism is a man that cannot learn.

One of the most overlooked books of the bible is Ecclesiastes.
Chapter 3 starts this way.

Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Ecc 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ecc 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Ecc 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ecc 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
Ecc 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
Ecc 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

I hope you understand the implications of what these verses are saying.

I think our discussion has run it's course and hopefully it was productive (I hope) while it lasted, but it has run out of steam and we must move on as the above verses dictate.

I will leave one verse with you that is one of the most profound verses in the bible, on the surface it's interpretation appears to be a slam dunk. But to the core it is a verse that can change the course and direction of one's life.

Pro 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.

I really hope you get the deep truth of this verse as it changed my whole life.

 

[TheNarrowPath]

The bible has told me not to accuse, even Satan, because God ultimately is in charge and Satan is an instrument of God.

Paul had even turned over leaders in his chuch to Satan so that they would learn not to blaspheme.

Apparently you fail to recognize the infinite nature of God and his Word, the bible. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. His ways are past finding out.

Unfortunately I am not able to share with some of the deeper truths of the bible because you fail to understand the fundamentals, you would be thoroughly confused even by the elementary things.

Jesus told Nicodemus a similar thing. If he could not understand earthly things, how is it that he was going to understand heavenly things.

I am not sorry to be critical of you but this is for the benefit of the hundreds of people who may be on this site and who may come across this post that they may learn not to take the name of God or the word of God in vain.
Fear God and keep his commandments - a quote by the wisest man on earth. This was his summary of entirety of man's duty to God.

Thank you, that was an eye opener! There was another thread about being frightened of Revelations and I wanted to reply to those that said something along the lines of you are an unbeliever if you fear God. It didnt sit well with me and so to read your statement that I highlighted made so much sense especially to newcomers like me who are learning more about the Bible each day. I think it is a healthy fear, I liken it to a father who has to deliver consequences to a child for misbehaving. You love your Dad but you fear the repercussions of wrong doing but even after you are dealt it, the respect for your father is higher because he had rules and he followed through with correction. That to me, is Gods love.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Ecc 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
Ecc 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
Ecc 3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
Ecc 3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
Ecc 3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
Ecc 3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
Ecc 3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
Ecc 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Turn, turn, turn.

 

[pablocito]

Thank you, that was an eye opener! There was another thread about being frightened of Revelations and I wanted to reply to those that said something along the lines of you are an unbeliever if you fear God. It didnt sit well with me and so to read your statement that I highlighted made so much sense especially to newcomers like me who are learning more about the Bible each day. I think it is a healthy fear, I liken it to a father who has to deliver consequences to a child for misbehaving. You love your Dad but you fear the repercussions of wrong doing but even after you are dealt it, the respect for your father is higher because he had rules and he followed through with correction. That to me, is Gods love.

I agree with you fully. I hope you continue in the "Fear of the Lord" as that is the beginning of wisdom and it will lead you into truth that cannot be got by mere human intellect and reasoning.

People who do not fear God, usually do not know him. They minimize his power and his sovereignty, believing than he is just like them.
Not so, let your words be few before God because he is in heaven and you are on earth.
Heaven is his throne, and the earth is his footstool.

Ecc_5:2 Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.

Also again

2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

In the above verse Paul who was caught up in the spirit or in a vision, saw and heard things which was not lawful for a man to speak.

I need not say anymore.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

You are mixing up the meanings between "sharing" and "teaching".

It takes an exceedingly sharp hermeneutical broadaxe to split a hair that fine!!!!

You're TEACHING whether you claim to be or not.

 

[Thewatchman]

I bet you LIVE for it.

I would not dare teach the bible in this age. In fact the bible warns us about being teachers as they will suffer the greater judgment.
I covet knowledge; but the more I learn it seems like the less I know.

If you taught a false doctrine 20 years ago or even 50 years ago, that many people embraced, most of whom you never saw again, then upgraded your belief to your new understanding, what are the repercussions concerning those who learned your teaching perfectly and even disseminated it to others.

Many pastors in a church are stuck in that church even when they know that the teachings they teach are wrong. One reason is their pride, they cannot go back on what they have taught for years. It would reduce their credibility to zero. Others who have a good position and a good paycheck, are torn between giving up everything in order to come right with their conscience or to continue to enjoy the perks and remuneration of their position.

When God sends someone, his word will not return void to him.

Pablocito: There are a lot of us out here that pass along knowledge, what we have been tough, etc. Just because someone says they would not want to teach in this day and age does not make them good or bar, right or wrong; it just means that they have not been called. God would have to come to me and talk to me like He did Job. Stand up put your big boy paints on and go preach the word.


“I feel, I thank” you have crossed the line here. You have the God given right to discern right from wrong, truth from fiction, you do not have the right to judge; God is the only Judge!


I was in a denomination for many years in different places from California to South Carolina. Moved around for work. I was taught false doctrine. I am thankful to God everyday for opening my eyes and ears to His word.


As far as prophets I am sure there are some here today but I do not know of any.
If Bob has has asked God for forgiveness for teaching falsely he has been forgiven; He did not commit the unpardonable sin.

 

[pablocito]

It takes an exceedingly sharp hermeneutical broadaxe to split a hair that fine!!!!

You're TEACHING whether you claim to be or not.

There is a thin line between good and evil. We, as humans, look at one's actions but God digs deep down into their hearts which do not lie.

Only God can divide between the joints and the marrow and also the spirit and the soul.

Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I will not debate you on your assertion. I have already spoken.

 

[pablocito]

Pablocito: There are a lot of us out here that pass along knowledge, what we have been tough, etc. Just because someone says they would not want to teach in this day and age does not make them good or bar, right or wrong; it just means that they have not been called. God would have to come to me and talk to me like He did Job. Stand up put your big boy paints on and go preach the word.


“I feel, I thank” you have crossed the line here. You have the God given right to discern right from wrong, truth from fiction, you do not have the right to judge; God is the only Judge!


I was in a denomination for many years in different places from California to South Carolina. Moved around for work. I was taught false doctrine. I am thankful to God everyday for opening my eyes and ears to His word.


As far as prophets I am sure there are some here today but I do not know of any.
If Bob has has asked God for forgiveness for teaching falsely he has been forgiven; He did not commit the unpardonable sin.

There is one problem with preaching for me. I cannot do it as I was not called as you rightly said.
All preaching or prophesying was done by men who were filled with the Holy Ghost and through whom God spoke. These men were speaking words (like Paul, the Apostle) that were never heard before by the Gentiles, neither were such words recorded on any manuscript. Thus there was a need for someone to be sent to deliver the word of God.

Also important to note during the 1st century there was a change from the 1st Covenant to the 2nd Covenant, thus the confusion and lack of knowledge about which rules to follow. That was where Jesus stepped in and called Paul, who did not received the word from the other apostles (12) but directly from God. (divine inspiration)

We do not have to get divine inspiration as Paul the Apostle and the other disciples did, we only have to read. The word is already completed and recorded for our edification (nothing can be added and nothing can be taken away from it.)

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Please go back and read the context of that verse above. It should enlighten you if God is with you.

Also the apostle John said this, but no one, no christian today believe it, or maybe they are blinded as the Jews were.

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Again I hope anyone reading this has the Spirit of God within him guiding him to understand this verse. (Although to be honest, I believe this verse could be understood by a 12 year old child very easily, who does not know anything about the bible.

I know I have said too much and thus I will be accused of preaching or teaching.
But again I am only sharing my viewpoint on a topic that is being discussed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Now that we have the entire word of God (the bible) available to all, each man is entitled to accept it or reject it for himself.
God will judge every word that comes out of a man's mouth and if one is not sent of God, he cannot speak speak on behalf of God.

This topic does not stand alone but is a part of a much bigger package that God has laid out in the bible and all parts fit together to form a complete whole.

 

[Thewatchman]

There is a thin line between good and evil. We, as humans, look at one's actions but God digs deep down into their hearts which do not lie.

Only God can divide between the joints and the marrow and also the spirit and the soul.

Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I will not debate you on your assertion. I have already spoken.

You come down on Bob for something He may or may not have done 20 or 50 years ago. Has he repented? Have you asked him if he has repented? Even if he tought a false doctron, or did not really understand he was teaching wrong he did not commit the unpardonable sin. Luke tells us that the unpardonable sin is not to allow the holy Spirit speak through you when you are delivered up before Death “Satan” If he has repented he is forgiven and it is not your place to judge him.

 

[pablocito]

You come down on Bob for something He may or may not have done 20 or 50 years ago. Has he repented? Have you asked him if he has repented? Even if he tought a false doctron, or did not really understand he was teaching wrong he did not commit the unpardonable sin. Luke tells us that the unpardonable sin is not to allow the holy Spirit speak through you when you are delivered up before Death “Satan” If he has repented he is forgiven and it is not your place to judge him.

I have not judged him and I do not accuse him of anything. We were having a discussion in which things were said which to me was unbecoming of a Christian. That does not disqualify him from being a son of God. (Maybe I was ill-tempered at the time, but I did try to make amends)

But nothing or no one is perfect in this life and at that moment I decided to state what I believed. The worst thing that a Christian can do is to remain silent thus seeming to condone what is being said to him especially if he strongly disagrees.

Of course I can be wrong in many things but at any moment in time I must not be a hypocrite but must be what I claim to be (wrong or right)

As I said I am not teaching anything, yet at the same time, I must be truthful to my conscience. To be silent means that others may have the impression that I agree with what was said.
The bible states that we have to be wise as a serpent yet harmless as a dove. That is a very difficult path to tread.

I did apologize to him stating that I did not intend to put him down. But I am not sure how he took it.

Please convey my feelings of sorrow to him for my creating a disturbance on this site. I would prefer to make amends between us if he is so inclined.