Daniel's 70 weeks correctly interpreted (in my opinion)

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Nov 23, 2013
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Because the generations after the Apostles believed in a future millennium. Like Irenaeus, Ignatius and Justin martyr
Do you have any links. I would be interested to read their comments.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Actually it doesn’t. The verses that you think apply to fleshly Israel apply to spiritual Israel, the children of the promise like Abraham, Isaac, Paul, Peter and all of us Christians.
Impossible. Spiritual Israel is the Church, and the Church is nowhere to be found in those passages. The Church is not subjected to wrath or the Tribulation either. Crystal clear.....I simply cannot fathom the confusion.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Impossible. Spiritual Israel is the Church, and the Church is nowhere to be found in those passages. The Church is not subjected to wrath or the Tribulation either. Crystal clear.....I simply cannot fathom the confusion.
Ok that’s your opinion but can you show me one verse that says that?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Impossible. Spiritual Israel is the Church, and the Church is nowhere to be found in those passages. The Church is not subjected to wrath or the Tribulation either. Crystal clear.....I simply cannot fathom the confusion.
Rom 9:6 (KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

There are two Israel’s in that verse. One is physical Israel, who is the other Israel?
 
Nov 23, 2013
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KJV1611 should study his Authorized Version carefully. He will discover that this is A FALLACY.

And this is wishful thinking.

NOTE: I use the KJV consistently and it does NOT say that done is done with Israel forever.
Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.


Ok I’m willing learn something, what does the underlined part of that verse mean? The end of Israel has come and God will not pass through them again. What does that mean?
Did you come up with anything on this yet? I certainly don’t want to be saying things that aren’t true.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Amo 8:2 (KJV) And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.

Ok I’m willing learn something, what does the underlined part of that verse mean? The end of Israel has come and God will not pass through them again. What does that mean?
Taking this verse and applying it to the end of the whole of Israel shows how important it is to keep all Scriptures in context. So what was Amos prophesying about?

One has to go through the entire prophecy of Amos to see that in 8:2 Amos is speaking about the northern kingdom of Israel under evil Jeroboam and how God would send Assyria against this kingdom and they would all go into captivity. That would be THE END OF THE NORTHERN KINGDOM, and the 10 tribes would be deemed to be "lost". We know from the history of Israel that only Judah remained after the Babylonian captivity, and the northern kingdom became Samaria (heathen according to the Jews).

But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts... But, behold, I will raise up against you a nation, O house of Israel, saith the LORD the God of hosts; and they shall afflict you from the entering in of Hemath unto the river of the wilderness... For thus Amos saith, Jeroboam shall die by the sword, and Israel shall surely be led away captive out of their own land... And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more... They that swear by the sin [idol] of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again... (Amos 5:26,27; 6:14; 7:11; 8:2,14)

At the same time, Amos prophesied that God was NOT DONE WITH JACOB/ISRAEL FOREVER, but that there would be a redeemed and restored kingdom Israel under Christ, with all twelve tribes in the land of Israel, and David as prince over Israel under Christ.

Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD... In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old... And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God. (Amos 9:8,11,14,15)
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Taking this verse and applying it to the end of the whole of Israel shows how important it is to keep all Scriptures in context. So what was Amos prophesying about?

One has to go through the entire prophecy of Amos to see that in 8:2 Amos is speaking about the northern kingdom of Israel under evil Jeroboam and how God would send Assyria against this kingdom and they would all go into captivity. That would be THE END OF THE NORTHERN KINGDOM, and the 10 tribes would be deemed to be "lost". We know from the history of Israel that only Judah remained after the Babylonian captivity, and the northern kingdom became Samaria (heathen according to the Jews).

But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the LORD, whose name is The God of hosts... But, behold, I will raise up against you a nation, O house of Israel, saith the LORD the God of hosts; and they shall afflict you from the entering in of Hemath unto the river of the wilderness... For thus Amos saith, Jeroboam shall die by the sword, and Israel shall surely be led away captive out of their own land... And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more... They that swear by the sin [idol] of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again... (Amos 5:26,27; 6:14; 7:11; 8:2,14)

At the same time, Amos prophesied that God was NOT DONE WITH JACOB/ISRAEL FOREVER, but that there would be a redeemed and restored kingdom Israel under Christ, with all twelve tribes in the land of Israel, and David as prince over Israel under Christ.

Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD... In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old... And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God. (Amos 9:8,11,14,15)
Are you sure about that? If you keep reading the story into chapter nine it specifically says that Israel would end at the same time the tabernacle of David was built.

Amo 9:11 (KJV) In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

Am I wrong on this? Did it really happen during the divided kingdom?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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Rom 9:6 (KJV) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

There are two Israel’s in that verse. One is physical Israel, who is the other Israel?
All messianic Jews aka Christians are Spiritual Israel. Unconverted Jews are absolutely required to fulfill end time prophecy......and behold.....there they are waiting for the Second Coming. You cant miss it.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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All messianic Jews aka Christians are Spiritual Israel. Unconverted Jews are absolutely required to fulfill end time prophecy......and behold.....there they are waiting for the Second Coming. You cant miss it.
My question was about who are the two Israel’s in the Old Testament. The two Israel’s are flesh Israel and spiritual Israel.

The Old Testament speaks of both of those with no distinction between the two. The only way to determine which Israel that’s being referenced is through the context of the verse.

If its wickedness and Gods judgement then it’s flesh Israel. If it’s blessings and promises then it’s spiritual Israel.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Zec 2:8 (KJV) For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Who is the apple of Gods eye. Is it spiritual Israel or flesh Israel? Is it the elect of God or the enemies of the gospel?
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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Zec 2:8 (KJV) For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Who is the apple of Gods eye. Is it spiritual Israel or flesh Israel? Is it the elect of God or the enemies of the gospel?
Both.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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Same reason Paul loved his disobedient countrymen.
If they were the apple of his eye then why did he brutally destroy them in AD 70.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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ROFL
Eschatology is a very murky issue. There are 4 different Biblical views of it. Only one version tries to put it in the past of 70AD. All the others put it in the future. While all are equally Biblical there might be a different version going to happen. Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language and Daniel has 2 seperate verses in chapter 12 stating is is closed until the end times. Other scripture pictures Jesus returning with the whole world watching. The angels taking the living and dead in Christ up while God pours out his wrath on earth. He stops when only 1/3 of living things are left. Then Jesus will according to Isaiah take his seat on the throne in Jerusalem.
All (4 or 5) are wrong and none is biblical. I have studied all of them with their different variations but non is true.

The book of Daniel was sealed until the end times but now we are already in the end times and the book that has the key to unseal Daniel is Revelation. John was told to leave the book open so we should understand what is happening in our times.

Jesus returns as the kingdom of God which is something that people can not see. During His trial, Jesus told Pilate and those in the courtroom, that from that moment on, they'd see the son of man coming with the clouds of heaven and sitting on the right hand of God, they did not unless Jesus was lying (God forbid). Therefore, these things are spiritual rather than physical.
 

Noose

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Apr 18, 2016
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I can't tell "when" you are saying the literal 1000 years takes place (or took place?), according to your viewpoint. Do you believe it's after His Second Coming? or past (from our perspective)?
Jesus is the life giving spirit and He always comes when we have a new believer, so the best phrase to explain His coming is; He is and was and is to come the Almighty.
There's no second coming, the bible never uses the phrase second coming. Jesus comes as the kingdom of God and whose coming is within the church era which is such a long period of time starting from the 1st century to the end of age. This period is also what is called the day of the Lord.
At the end of this age, the bible says there will be the sign of son of man coming; signs are for understanding- it simply means, at the end, people will understand but then it will late.

1000 years comes after this church era.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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"While all are equally Biblical"

Not so. The correct thesis ties the entire gamut of data together in a form that is self confirming, and leaving no loose ends.
And that thesis is a 173,880 prophecy that was met, the necessary manifestation of the prophesied Church, a Pre-Trib rapture, a seven year Tribulation, the Second Coning and a subsequent Millennial reign.

There is not conceivable way to shoehorn all prophecy into the time before 70 AD.
I didn't say I agreed with it but it is one of 4 different Biblical views of eschatology. Anyone claiming they know exactly what is going to happen ignores the fact that Daniel states the book is closed until end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed until the end times. Lots guesses but no hard facts. I take the Bible's statement about that!
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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Ok. Bro what about the resurrection thats mentioned in Daniel 12:2? Wouldnt this need to have happened already if the 70 weeks were done? Someone brought this up to me as I also said the 70 weeks are done already at some time on here. (cant remember where)

Hello Hevosmies. Why would it need to happen already? Dispensationalists will insist that "everlasting righteousness" and some of the other things Gabriel mentions in Dan 9: 24 must be fully realized on earth for Daniel's prophecy to be fulfilled.

This simply isn't true. We know Jesus was crucified in the 70th week because Dan 9: 26 and 27 both tell us that. Therefore it happened on a spiritual level but has not been fully inaugurated yet. It is the "now but not yet" you find with many doctrines in the Bible. Like salvation for instance. We are saved right now but still struggle with sin and will not be perfected (fully saved) and freed from sin until the resurrection when we receive our new sinless bodies. Same thing with the kingdom of God. It's on earth now, but not fully realized until the new heavens and new earth. The 70 weeks is similar. All 6 things were fulfilled spiritually at the cross but not fully realized. Nevertheless, God considers that prophecy fulfilled regardless of whether the dispensationalist accepts it or not.

Also bro, I remember you said you are arminian, but unfortuantely my memory is poor and I cant remember if I asked you what church do you go to? Id love to know that. Thanks
I go to a non-denominational church that does not even preach on eschatology. I believe in "free will". I am definitely not a Calvinist as I find that theology abhorrent personally and most importantly unbiblical.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Dispensationalists will insist that "everlasting righteousness" and some of the other things Gabriel mentions in Dan 9: 24 must be fully realized on earth for Daniel's prophecy to be fulfilled.
Dispensationalists only say what God has already revealed. Everlasting righteousness applies to the earth and means exactly what it says -- universal, total, and eternal righteousness on earth.

This is the crux of Daniel's prophecy regarding the 70 weeks of years (as applicable to Israel, Jerusalem, and Judah, but with worldwide ramifications).
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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All (4 or 5) are wrong and none is biblical. I have studied all of them with their different variations but non is true.

The book of Daniel was sealed until the end times but now we are already in the end times and the book that has the key to unseal Daniel is Revelation. John was told to leave the book open so we should understand what is happening in our times.

Jesus returns as the kingdom of God which is something that people can not see. During His trial, Jesus told Pilate and those in the courtroom, that from that moment on, they'd see the son of man coming with the clouds of heaven and sitting on the right hand of God, they did not unless Jesus was lying (God forbid). Therefore, these things are spiritual rather than physical.
70AD man are you? I totally disagree since in non eschatologyical scripture Jesus is portraied portraied as coming with angels gathering the living and dead in Christ while God rains down his wrath on earth stopping only when there is still 1/3 of living things left
Zec 2:8 (KJV) For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Who is the apple of Gods eye. Is it spiritual Israel or flesh Israel? Is it the elect of God or the enemies of the gospel?
ROFL
Since you love the KJV so much you need to understand its flaws. Language changes over time and so does knowledge about the plant and animal kingdoms. Here are issues KJV has since it is a 1611 translation. I keep this document just for the KJV only people!!

KJV Issues
For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:

Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples, ….

The King James translators also translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for thinking don’t actually exist:

unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).

Moreover,, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers: Phrases that no longer make sense:

ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);

And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)

And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)


Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers to a man who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
(This This last is saying the person is male.)