Define A Christian
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C
We don't become saints. We already are.
Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
The words "to be" are in italics and that means they aren't found in the Greek. Catholic Bibles do not have them in italics because they don't want people to know the words were added. This is an example where tradition lies and why God wrote it down.
That belief is Catholicism.
C
“The Condition for Giving vs. the Condition for Receiving
“Likewise, it is necessary that upon the conditions that God chose to create and to save free moral creatures, He does so in accordance with the freedom He gave them. Hence, there is no condition for God’s giving salvation, but there is one (and only one) condition laid down for receiving the gift of eternal life: faith (Acts 16:31; Rom. 4:5; Eph. 2:8-9). Therefore, the reception of salvation is conditioned on our belief.6 Salvation is unconditioned from the perspective of the Giver, but it is conditioned from the view of the receiver (who must believe in order to receive it). In short, salvation comes from God, but we receive it through faith: “For by grace you have been saved through faith” (Eph. 2:8 NASB).’”
- Page 182, Systematic Theology, Volume Three, SIN / SALVATION, Dr. Norman Geisler
“Likewise, it is necessary that upon the conditions that God chose to create and to save free moral creatures, He does so in accordance with the freedom He gave them. Hence, there is no condition for God’s giving salvation, but there is one (and only one) condition laid down for receiving the gift of eternal life: faith (Acts 16:31; Rom. 4:5; Eph. 2:8-9). Therefore, the reception of salvation is conditioned on our belief.6 Salvation is unconditioned from the perspective of the Giver, but it is conditioned from the view of the receiver (who must believe in order to receive it). In short, salvation comes from God, but we receive it through faith: “For by grace you have been saved through faith” (Eph. 2:8 NASB).’”
- Page 182, Systematic Theology, Volume Three, SIN / SALVATION, Dr. Norman Geisler
Perhaps some Christians think it is going to be easy to obey Jesus, and then find it isn't easy at all. What do we do when we find out it isn't easy? Do we give up?
We are all going to fail sometimes. Does that mean we will spend eternity in hell? No, unless we give up.
I have failed to obey the Lord on many occasions. The Lord always leads me to repentance. Sin only leads to trouble, and the trouble can be extremely large if the sin is serious enough.
We are all going to fail sometimes. Does that mean we will spend eternity in hell? No, unless we give up.
I have failed to obey the Lord on many occasions. The Lord always leads me to repentance. Sin only leads to trouble, and the trouble can be extremely large if the sin is serious enough.
C
What people don't know is the gospel and what people are preaching is another gospel. Paul says to let them be accursed if they preach another gospel.
1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
1 Corinthians 15 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Where is the teaching in Paul's gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 on works, being sinless, being on fire, repenting, etc?
If you preach another gospel, Paul says to let them be accursed.
I know what I believe. Perhaps some other Christians here should take note because you're being lied to and you have these false gospels present here. I have the Bible and I know what I believe.
It is so simple that anyone could get in which is why people don't like it because then you have to accept Jesus over your works, your condition, your pride, or whatever.
Paul says you are saved if you keep in memory what Paul preached to you.
1 Corinthians 15:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1 Corinthians 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1 Corinthians 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1 Corinthians 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1 Corinthians 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.
1 Corinthians 15 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Where is the teaching in Paul's gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 on works, being sinless, being on fire, repenting, etc?
If you preach another gospel, Paul says to let them be accursed.
I know what I believe. Perhaps some other Christians here should take note because you're being lied to and you have these false gospels present here. I have the Bible and I know what I believe.
It is so simple that anyone could get in which is why people don't like it because then you have to accept Jesus over your works, your condition, your pride, or whatever.
Paul says you are saved if you keep in memory what Paul preached to you.
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I agree when we walk with Jesus we are saints. But if we fail to walk we have ceased to be a saint.
What I was really realising is by walking we actually change. It is like the difference between imaginning action and actually doing it. By doing something it gets imbedded in us, and the more we do the more it becomes part of how we react and behave.
What I was really realising is by walking we actually change. It is like the difference between imaginning action and actually doing it. By doing something it gets imbedded in us, and the more we do the more it becomes part of how we react and behave.
C
What you wrote was this:
You wrote easy believism wasn't enough. So what is enough? The reader starts looking at opposites of easy believism which is hard.
You wrote, "but not have the committed faith required to follow Jesus." There is no specification what following means so I can assume works.
You wrote, "Believing and saying a prayer at some point in our life isn't enough."
The opposite of what you wrote is works because you are against believism and want something stronger so what is stronger that isn't works? No. I didn't see the word "works" used by you but the context suggests the context unless you define what we have to be in order to be saved.
You wrote easy believism wasn't enough. So what is enough? The reader starts looking at opposites of easy believism which is hard.
You wrote, "but not have the committed faith required to follow Jesus." There is no specification what following means so I can assume works.
You wrote, "Believing and saying a prayer at some point in our life isn't enough."
The opposite of what you wrote is works because you are against believism and want something stronger so what is stronger that isn't works? No. I didn't see the word "works" used by you but the context suggests the context unless you define what we have to be in order to be saved.
Here is an article that defines easy believism and does a better job of illustrating my point:
Question: "What is easy believism?"
Answer: Easy believism is a somewhat derogatory term used by opponents of the view that one needs only to believe in Jesus in order to be saved. From this they conclude that those who hold to sola fide (“faith alone”) teach that no corresponding need exists for a committed life of Christian discipleship as proof of salvation; however, that is not what sola fide means. True faith in Christ will always lead to a changed life. Another common usage of the term easy believism is in regards to those who believe they’re saved because they prayed a prayer—with no real conviction of sin and no real faith in Christ. Praying a prayer is easy—thus the term easy believism—but there is more to salvation than mouthing words.
Much of the debate over easy believism is unnecessary and is based on a misunderstanding of the Scriptures. The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. The essence of this doctrine is found in Ephesians 2:8–9: “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.” So we see that faith, given as a gift by God, is what saves us. But the next verse tells of the results of that salvation: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”Rather than being saved by some easy act of our own wills [simple mental assent or acknowledgement], we are saved by the hand of God Almighty, by His will and for His use. We are His servants, and from the moment of salvation by faith, we embark on a journey of pre-ordained good works that are the evidence of that salvation. If there is no evidence of growth and good works, we have reason to doubt that salvation ever truly took place. “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:20), and a dead faith is not a saving faith.
“Faith alone” does not mean that some believers follow Christ in a life of discipleship, while others do not. The concept of the “carnal Christian,” as a separate category of non-spiritual believer, is completely unscriptural. The idea of the carnal Christian says that a person may receive Christ as Savior during a religious experience but never manifest evidence of a changed life. This is a false and dangerous teaching in that it excuses various ungodly lifestyles: a man may be an unrepentant adulterer, liar, or thief, but he’s “saved” because he prayed a prayer as a child; he’s just a “carnal Christian.” The Bible nowhere supports the idea that a true Christian can remain carnal for an entire lifetime. Rather, God’s Word presents only two categories of people: Christians and non-Christians, believers and unbelievers, those who have bowed to the Lordship of Christ and those who have not (see John 3:36; Romans 6:17–18; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:18–24; Ephesians 2:1–5; 1 John 1:5–7; 2:3–4).
While the security of salvation is a biblical fact based upon the finished work of salvation by Christ, it is certainly true that some of those who seemed to have “made a decision” or “accepted Christ” may not genuinely be saved. As noted before, true salvation is not so much our accepting Christ as it is His accepting us. We are saved by the power of God for the purpose of God, and that purpose includes the works that give evidence of our conversion. Those who continue to walk according to the flesh are not believers (Romans 8:5–8). This is why Paul exhorts us to “examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5). The “carnal” Christian who examines himself will soon see that he/she is not in the faith.
James 2:19 says, “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” The type of “belief” demons have can be compared to the intellectual assent made by those who “believe” in Jesus in the fact that He exists or that He was a good person. Many unbelievers say, “I believe in God” or “I believe in Jesus”; others say, “I prayed a prayer, and the preacher said I was saved.” But such prayers and such belief do not necessarily signal a change of heart. The problem is a misunderstanding of the word believe. With true salvation comes genuine repentance and real life change. Second Corinthians 5:17 says that those who are in Christ are a “new creation.” Is it possible that the new person Christ creates is one who continues to walk in the carnality of the flesh? No.
Salvation is certainly free, but, at the same time, it costs us everything. We are to die to ourselves as we change into the likeness of Christ. Where easy believism fails is its lack of recognition that a person with faith in Jesus will lead a progressively changed life. Salvation is a free gift from God to those who believe, but discipleship and obedience are the response that will no doubt occur when one truly comes to Christ in faith.
What is easy believism?
And just to be even more clear:
Unlike the pelagians promoting sinless perfection on the site, I am not an advocate of sinless perfection. Not in our corruptible bodies.
I hope this makes things a little more clear. I do not believe in works based salvation. I do not believe in sinless perfectionism. I believe in false converts. And I believe in true Christians who will walk according to their faith and new nature after being born again, who repent and turn from their old ways and turn to Christ as their Lord and Savior, who will do good works, who will produce good fruit, and who will persevere until the very end in accordance with their calling and election in Christ.
Question: "What is easy believism?"
Answer: Easy believism is a somewhat derogatory term used by opponents of the view that one needs only to believe in Jesus in order to be saved. From this they conclude that those who hold to sola fide (“faith alone”) teach that no corresponding need exists for a committed life of Christian discipleship as proof of salvation; however, that is not what sola fide means. True faith in Christ will always lead to a changed life. Another common usage of the term easy believism is in regards to those who believe they’re saved because they prayed a prayer—with no real conviction of sin and no real faith in Christ. Praying a prayer is easy—thus the term easy believism—but there is more to salvation than mouthing words.
Much of the debate over easy believism is unnecessary and is based on a misunderstanding of the Scriptures. The Bible is clear that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. The essence of this doctrine is found in Ephesians 2:8–9: “For by grace are you saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.” So we see that faith, given as a gift by God, is what saves us. But the next verse tells of the results of that salvation: “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.”Rather than being saved by some easy act of our own wills [simple mental assent or acknowledgement], we are saved by the hand of God Almighty, by His will and for His use. We are His servants, and from the moment of salvation by faith, we embark on a journey of pre-ordained good works that are the evidence of that salvation. If there is no evidence of growth and good works, we have reason to doubt that salvation ever truly took place. “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:20), and a dead faith is not a saving faith.
“Faith alone” does not mean that some believers follow Christ in a life of discipleship, while others do not. The concept of the “carnal Christian,” as a separate category of non-spiritual believer, is completely unscriptural. The idea of the carnal Christian says that a person may receive Christ as Savior during a religious experience but never manifest evidence of a changed life. This is a false and dangerous teaching in that it excuses various ungodly lifestyles: a man may be an unrepentant adulterer, liar, or thief, but he’s “saved” because he prayed a prayer as a child; he’s just a “carnal Christian.” The Bible nowhere supports the idea that a true Christian can remain carnal for an entire lifetime. Rather, God’s Word presents only two categories of people: Christians and non-Christians, believers and unbelievers, those who have bowed to the Lordship of Christ and those who have not (see John 3:36; Romans 6:17–18; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 5:18–24; Ephesians 2:1–5; 1 John 1:5–7; 2:3–4).
While the security of salvation is a biblical fact based upon the finished work of salvation by Christ, it is certainly true that some of those who seemed to have “made a decision” or “accepted Christ” may not genuinely be saved. As noted before, true salvation is not so much our accepting Christ as it is His accepting us. We are saved by the power of God for the purpose of God, and that purpose includes the works that give evidence of our conversion. Those who continue to walk according to the flesh are not believers (Romans 8:5–8). This is why Paul exhorts us to “examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5). The “carnal” Christian who examines himself will soon see that he/she is not in the faith.
James 2:19 says, “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” The type of “belief” demons have can be compared to the intellectual assent made by those who “believe” in Jesus in the fact that He exists or that He was a good person. Many unbelievers say, “I believe in God” or “I believe in Jesus”; others say, “I prayed a prayer, and the preacher said I was saved.” But such prayers and such belief do not necessarily signal a change of heart. The problem is a misunderstanding of the word believe. With true salvation comes genuine repentance and real life change. Second Corinthians 5:17 says that those who are in Christ are a “new creation.” Is it possible that the new person Christ creates is one who continues to walk in the carnality of the flesh? No.
Salvation is certainly free, but, at the same time, it costs us everything. We are to die to ourselves as we change into the likeness of Christ. Where easy believism fails is its lack of recognition that a person with faith in Jesus will lead a progressively changed life. Salvation is a free gift from God to those who believe, but discipleship and obedience are the response that will no doubt occur when one truly comes to Christ in faith.
What is easy believism?
And just to be even more clear:
Unlike the pelagians promoting sinless perfection on the site, I am not an advocate of sinless perfection. Not in our corruptible bodies.
I hope this makes things a little more clear. I do not believe in works based salvation. I do not believe in sinless perfectionism. I believe in false converts. And I believe in true Christians who will walk according to their faith and new nature after being born again, who repent and turn from their old ways and turn to Christ as their Lord and Savior, who will do good works, who will produce good fruit, and who will persevere until the very end in accordance with their calling and election in Christ.
C
I wrote about 20 pages for a book why the current understanding of James 2:20 is false.
I'm not going to post it here but I should probably get off of here and work on my ebook except that I feel sorry that people here are not hearing the correct gospel.
You said you weren't teaching works but then you post an article on works. The Catholic position is grace infused with works which is another gospel.
You see, James agrees with Paul that:
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
That is justification by faith without works.
Romans 4:5 ¶ But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
There are things which I won't communicate from my book that I have been working on.
Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
What kind of works did they have for God to say, "Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin"? Is that easy believism?
I'm not going to post it here but I should probably get off of here and work on my ebook except that I feel sorry that people here are not hearing the correct gospel.
You said you weren't teaching works but then you post an article on works. The Catholic position is grace infused with works which is another gospel.
You see, James agrees with Paul that:
James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
That is justification by faith without works.
Romans 4:5 ¶ But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
There are things which I won't communicate from my book that I have been working on.
Exodus 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
What kind of works did they have for God to say, "Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin"? Is that easy believism?
I'm not teaching works based justification as you are wrongly accusing me of. Works will follow saving faith however, which the article clearly portrays. Nowhere does it say works = justification. It says God justifies through the gift of faith and changes the nature of the man. Works follow that.
Again, I am not saying one is justified by works. Never once have said that. Works and fruit will follow saving faith. The regenerate work in a man is of God and he will cause him to walk in his statues and in the light. An unrepentant sinner who never in his life changes is probably not saved. Someone cannot embrace the darkness their whole life and claim to be in the light because of some mental assent many years ago.
There will be a change of life and fruits present. Look at the parable of the sower. One can't profess to follow Christ and live a life in unrepentant sin. They may be stuck in a state of unrepentance for years, decades, but eventually God will move them to repent and their life will change. If this never takes place, they were never saved. Repentance is part of salvation.
Not sure why you keep mentioning your book? I've never read it.
I don't know? I'm guessing they had the gift of faith given to them by God.
Ezekiel 36
26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
Ezekiel 11:19-20
And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Hebrews 10:16-17
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
Deuteronomy 30:6
And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.
Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 24:7
I will give them a heart to know that I am the Lord, and they shall be my people and I will be their God, for they shall return to me with their whole heart.
James 1:21
Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
Titus 2:14
who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
Again, I am not saying one is justified by works. Never once have said that. Works and fruit will follow saving faith. The regenerate work in a man is of God and he will cause him to walk in his statues and in the light. An unrepentant sinner who never in his life changes is probably not saved. Someone cannot embrace the darkness their whole life and claim to be in the light because of some mental assent many years ago.
There will be a change of life and fruits present. Look at the parable of the sower. One can't profess to follow Christ and live a life in unrepentant sin. They may be stuck in a state of unrepentance for years, decades, but eventually God will move them to repent and their life will change. If this never takes place, they were never saved. Repentance is part of salvation.
Not sure why you keep mentioning your book? I've never read it.
I don't know? I'm guessing they had the gift of faith given to them by God.
Ezekiel 36
26"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27"I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
Ezekiel 11:19-20
And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
Hebrews 10:16-17
“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
Deuteronomy 30:6
And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.
Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jeremiah 24:7
I will give them a heart to know that I am the Lord, and they shall be my people and I will be their God, for they shall return to me with their whole heart.
James 1:21
Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
Titus 2:14
who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
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C
Three scholars I know have said that James is talking about showing his faith before men:
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jesus says you can't see the spirit:
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
For those who don't have the spirit because He is invisible like the wind and you can't see if they are saved or not even though they have works.
Jesus says you can't see the spirit's work in the believer and if works as a result is the result of salvation you would have to explain why it is the result of saved and unsaved people as well because it isn't proof that people are saved.
Jehovah Witness work, Mormons work, Catholics work, cults work. It isn't proof.
The difference is that cults and religions say, "do". Christ says "Done".
What is the relationship of faith, works, and security in salvation?
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-works-security.html
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jesus says you can't see the spirit:
John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
For those who don't have the spirit because He is invisible like the wind and you can't see if they are saved or not even though they have works.
Jesus says you can't see the spirit's work in the believer and if works as a result is the result of salvation you would have to explain why it is the result of saved and unsaved people as well because it isn't proof that people are saved.
Jehovah Witness work, Mormons work, Catholics work, cults work. It isn't proof.
The difference is that cults and religions say, "do". Christ says "Done".
What is the relationship of faith, works, and security in salvation?
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-works-security.html
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Christians are defined as illumination.
†. Eph 5:8 . . You were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord
Saying they were darkness is not same as saying they were in the dark.
There's a difference.
According to science; there are objects in space called black holes. These
critters are said to possess gravity so strong that not even light can escape
their grasp. However, Eph 5:8 isn't talking about an object wherein light is
trapped. No; It's talking about an object that contains no light whatsoever;
viz: non Christians aren't just black holes, they're dark holes.
How many dark holes are we talking about? Well; according to my sources,
there are approximately:
50 thousand Scientologists
7.31 million Baha'i
483.8 million Buddhists
454.6 million Chinese Folk Religionists
6.4 million Confucianists
258.5 million Ethnic Religionists
935.5 million Hindus
5.7 million Jains
1.5 billion Muslims
1.8 million Orthodox Jews
64.2 million New Religionists
2.8 million Shintoists
24.2 million Sikhs
13.8 million Spiritists
8.8 million Taoists
640 million Non Religious
138.8 million Atheists
The grand total of just those categories is 4,545,760,000
If those figures are in the ball park, and if Christianity is the truth; then at
the least 62% of the earth's current population of 7.308 billion people are
dark holes; and no doubt some of those are people we know: our friends,
our relatives, and our associates.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Christians are defined as illumination.
†. Eph 5:8 . . You were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord
Saying they were darkness is not same as saying they were in the dark.
There's a difference.
According to science; there are objects in space called black holes. These
critters are said to possess gravity so strong that not even light can escape
their grasp. However, Eph 5:8 isn't talking about an object wherein light is
trapped. No; It's talking about an object that contains no light whatsoever;
viz: non Christians aren't just black holes, they're dark holes.
How many dark holes are we talking about? Well; according to my sources,
there are approximately:
50 thousand Scientologists
7.31 million Baha'i
483.8 million Buddhists
454.6 million Chinese Folk Religionists
6.4 million Confucianists
258.5 million Ethnic Religionists
935.5 million Hindus
5.7 million Jains
1.5 billion Muslims
1.8 million Orthodox Jews
64.2 million New Religionists
2.8 million Shintoists
24.2 million Sikhs
13.8 million Spiritists
8.8 million Taoists
640 million Non Religious
138.8 million Atheists
The grand total of just those categories is 4,545,760,000
If those figures are in the ball park, and if Christianity is the truth; then at
the least 62% of the earth's current population of 7.308 billion people are
dark holes; and no doubt some of those are people we know: our friends,
our relatives, and our associates.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Let's look at the context of this verse shall we:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? [SUP]17[/SUP]In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.[SUP]
20[/SUP]You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP][d][/SUP]? [SUP]21[/SUP]Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP][e][/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.[SUP]
25 [/SUP]In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? [SUP]26 [/SUP]As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
In context, it's painfully obvious that works are the outward manifestation of faith. This affirms all of the messages from God where he says when he puts his Spirit in someone, they delight in his law and will walk in his statutes.
This verse is stripped of its context and isn't related to works. Jesus was explaining that no one can see or enter the kingdom of God without being born again of the Spirit (the miraculous work of God that changes a man from his carnal nature to a spiritually alive nature). Nothing about works. He is talking about being made alive spiritually by the indwelling Holy Spirit and the work of regeneration in a man performed by God.
This isn't what he was saying at all. You stripped the context of the passage. Jesus was simply saying no one will enter the kingdom without being born again by the Spirit. Real simple. Works have nothing to do with this passage.
Works can be done by anyone not born of the Spirit, but they are dead works. The pharisees worked and weren't saved. But a born again Christian will walk according to his faith in the works that were prepared for them beforehand as per scripture. He will be repentant and will walk in the light. His works will be a manifestation of his faith and the law written on his heart. God himself said many times that when he puts his Spirit in someone, he will cause them to obey him and that they will be zealous for good works. A workless fruitless faith is a dead unsaving faith. A born again man has a new nature and will show signs of it.
So an unrepentant sinner who lives in the darkness his whole life until death is born again? This contradicts God's word.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. [SUP]16 [/SUP]If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? [SUP]17[/SUP]In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.[SUP]
18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.[SUP]
20[/SUP]You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[SUP][d][/SUP]? [SUP]21[/SUP]Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[SUP][e][/SUP] and he was called God’s friend. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.[SUP]
25 [/SUP]In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? [SUP]26 [/SUP]As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
In context, it's painfully obvious that works are the outward manifestation of faith. This affirms all of the messages from God where he says when he puts his Spirit in someone, they delight in his law and will walk in his statutes.
This verse is stripped of its context and isn't related to works. Jesus was explaining that no one can see or enter the kingdom of God without being born again of the Spirit (the miraculous work of God that changes a man from his carnal nature to a spiritually alive nature). Nothing about works. He is talking about being made alive spiritually by the indwelling Holy Spirit and the work of regeneration in a man performed by God.
This isn't what he was saying at all. You stripped the context of the passage. Jesus was simply saying no one will enter the kingdom without being born again by the Spirit. Real simple. Works have nothing to do with this passage.
Works can be done by anyone not born of the Spirit, but they are dead works. The pharisees worked and weren't saved. But a born again Christian will walk according to his faith in the works that were prepared for them beforehand as per scripture. He will be repentant and will walk in the light. His works will be a manifestation of his faith and the law written on his heart. God himself said many times that when he puts his Spirit in someone, he will cause them to obey him and that they will be zealous for good works. A workless fruitless faith is a dead unsaving faith. A born again man has a new nature and will show signs of it.
So an unrepentant sinner who lives in the darkness his whole life until death is born again? This contradicts God's word.
J
One point consider here. You mention the verse in James about the demons believing, but not being saved. Well, they do not have a Savior to trust in as far as I know. You seem to be implying that faith plus works equals salvation. I think what you mean is that faith without the evidence of works is not true faith.
Your last statement was the true genius. As Jesus said, "You must be born again." A new creation in Christ! Someone who is under new management. Repentance from sin, living in Christ, seeking to obey Jesus and follow Him is good evidence of someone with a true faith and being a "Christian". I rather prefer the term, "Follower of Christ."
Your last statement was the true genius. As Jesus said, "You must be born again." A new creation in Christ! Someone who is under new management. Repentance from sin, living in Christ, seeking to obey Jesus and follow Him is good evidence of someone with a true faith and being a "Christian". I rather prefer the term, "Follower of Christ."
C
Repentance is not in Paul's gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 and by adding it, you have created another gospel. Repentance is a step or as a result of the gospel.
John 19:28 ¶ After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
https://bible.org/question/what-does-greek-word-tetelestai-mean
Jesus says our salvation is paid for and it is finished. When you say that I have to do something for the gift and exhibit characteristics, you are basically saying that the gift that Jesus paid for is not enough.
John 19:28 ¶ After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
https://bible.org/question/what-does-greek-word-tetelestai-mean
Jesus says our salvation is paid for and it is finished. When you say that I have to do something for the gift and exhibit characteristics, you are basically saying that the gift that Jesus paid for is not enough.
C
John MacArthur is a Lordship Salvationist and Lordship Salvation is about 16 years old.
Jude 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Lordship Salvation is a doctrine created about 16 or so years ago so it wasn't the salvation delivered to the saints.
Jude 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Lordship Salvation is a doctrine created about 16 or so years ago so it wasn't the salvation delivered to the saints.
C
It explains why you are coming from the position you are coming from but scripture only mentions two classes:
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
If I believe, I am not condemned. He that believeth not is condemned already. There is no third class discussed like "he that believeth and is carnal is condemned". My Bible doesn't have the third statement.
This is why I don't have to discuss it much further.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
If I believe, I am not condemned. He that believeth not is condemned already. There is no third class discussed like "he that believeth and is carnal is condemned". My Bible doesn't have the third statement.
This is why I don't have to discuss it much further.