DID GOD CREATE EVIL?
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Z
Credo_ut_Intelligam: we on this website will not be able to find common ground until people stop depending on private, personal interpretations of the Bible or modern interpolations of novel understandings. When we as a group can begin to listen to the wisdom of generation after generation of Christian writers from the Apostolic Fathers on, only continued division and disagreement will result. Somebody has to finally admit, "I am wrong and need to be corrected"
the sinner, Zossima
the sinner, Zossima
Hi Devolution, I will answer both of the above at the same time. In the first post, none of the bible verses you mention had anything to do with creation. In all of those instances, God is dealing with man, in other words, evil has already come into action with Satan. That God can use evil to punish man for his actions is clearly indicated in the O.T. God can even use evil to produce good, as in the case of Joseph being sold into slavery, which allowed his family to be saved from starvation. This has nothing to do with the original creation. Evil is not a thing to be created or destroyed. It is a concept. If one is to have a concept of goodness, then there must be evil to compare it with. If God is good, then there must be evil. It is a consequence of His existence. This is difficult to understand but you must try.
As for the second post, the bodies that God created for Adam and Eve were perfect bodies, that would not age and die, or get sick. It is when sin was introduced that disorder was loosed into the universe. At this point, all things, including the earth and universe began to suffer corruption. God did not want to force us to love Him, so He gave us free will, knowing we would fail, providing us with an escape, (Jesus Christ), knowing that we would suffer in the short term, yet we would love Him of our own free will in the long term. This is not to say that God needed us to love Him. It speaks of His grace and Love that He would do this for us.
As for the second post, the bodies that God created for Adam and Eve were perfect bodies, that would not age and die, or get sick. It is when sin was introduced that disorder was loosed into the universe. At this point, all things, including the earth and universe began to suffer corruption. God did not want to force us to love Him, so He gave us free will, knowing we would fail, providing us with an escape, (Jesus Christ), knowing that we would suffer in the short term, yet we would love Him of our own free will in the long term. This is not to say that God needed us to love Him. It speaks of His grace and Love that He would do this for us.
Hi dave,
What is the role of every parent? Besides protecting & providing for their children, what is the next most important role?
Well, it is to TEACH right from wrong. Can a child be taught wrong if it is not present? We who are parents understand that our children don't always listen. We say to them, do not do this or that will happen....and on so many occasions...the phone call comes, "um, dad, you know how you told me not to do so and so, well........
And what usually happens once they have tasted for themselves the fruits of their actions? They choose and act appropriately thereon. If God did not create evil, then something else would occur....unintentional sin. Or sin in ignorance.
God does not dwell with sin. He needs to create it to expose it. THEN once it has played its part, it will be destroyed. God promises evil will be destroyed Dave, so WHAT is He waiting for? Well, logic dictates then, He has not destroyed it yer because it must be serving a PURPOSE....and that purpose is to TEACH.
Imagine God saying to an angel, "Do not do this thing or you will die"..what do you think the angel will say? He will say, "what is death"?
Or, "Do not covet" The angel replies, "But i like it, what is wrong with that Father"?
Or "Do not complain, it will corrupt you" The angel says, "How can WORDS corrupt, they are not PHYSICAL Father? What is this you speak"?
You see the problem? God needed to create evil to destroy evil. ONLY God knew that besides good, there was evil. For if the angels knew also, do you really think they would have followed Satan? IF they truly understood the outcome of their actions...SUICIDE...would they have gone along with him? Would Satan have acted? He who is proud and loves his life? Why just throw it away? No, the angels did not know either..only God knew...this is why He NEEDED to create evil.
And why create Lucifer/Satan?the Serpent perfect? To teach another lesson !! And that lesson is that even though this creature dwelt with God, and knew His power, and had every access to all things good, even in this condition, PRIDE can make creatures do the unthinkable, even at the cost of death....That POWER corrupts absolutely, and that truly ONLY God can handle this POWER without being corrupted by it. ONLY Him. NOW we KNOW, God is NO dictator, but instead is the ONLY One (and NOW His Son) capable of immunity from corruption from the corruption ultimate power brings.
Regards
Devolution.
What is the role of every parent? Besides protecting & providing for their children, what is the next most important role?
Well, it is to TEACH right from wrong. Can a child be taught wrong if it is not present? We who are parents understand that our children don't always listen. We say to them, do not do this or that will happen....and on so many occasions...the phone call comes, "um, dad, you know how you told me not to do so and so, well........
And what usually happens once they have tasted for themselves the fruits of their actions? They choose and act appropriately thereon. If God did not create evil, then something else would occur....unintentional sin. Or sin in ignorance.
God does not dwell with sin. He needs to create it to expose it. THEN once it has played its part, it will be destroyed. God promises evil will be destroyed Dave, so WHAT is He waiting for? Well, logic dictates then, He has not destroyed it yer because it must be serving a PURPOSE....and that purpose is to TEACH.
Imagine God saying to an angel, "Do not do this thing or you will die"..what do you think the angel will say? He will say, "what is death"?
Or, "Do not covet" The angel replies, "But i like it, what is wrong with that Father"?
Or "Do not complain, it will corrupt you" The angel says, "How can WORDS corrupt, they are not PHYSICAL Father? What is this you speak"?
You see the problem? God needed to create evil to destroy evil. ONLY God knew that besides good, there was evil. For if the angels knew also, do you really think they would have followed Satan? IF they truly understood the outcome of their actions...SUICIDE...would they have gone along with him? Would Satan have acted? He who is proud and loves his life? Why just throw it away? No, the angels did not know either..only God knew...this is why He NEEDED to create evil.
And why create Lucifer/Satan?the Serpent perfect? To teach another lesson !! And that lesson is that even though this creature dwelt with God, and knew His power, and had every access to all things good, even in this condition, PRIDE can make creatures do the unthinkable, even at the cost of death....That POWER corrupts absolutely, and that truly ONLY God can handle this POWER without being corrupted by it. ONLY Him. NOW we KNOW, God is NO dictator, but instead is the ONLY One (and NOW His Son) capable of immunity from corruption from the corruption ultimate power brings.
Regards
Devolution.
Yes, Loveschild, you are so very correct: our free will simply must decide on the path we wish to follow.
"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" - Micah 6:8 (KJV)
Believers, of course, must choose to be on God's side. Even the righteous among non believers must rely on conscience. The more erudite among the latter class may make their decision based on what Immanuel Kant called the Categorical Imperative which is a moral constituent imbedded within most religious systems. Briefly stated, the Categorical Imperative dictates that, when one is faced with a decision, the only rational choice is to:
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it become a universal law."
IMHO, adhering to the above cannot but help but to be pleasing to God because, although seemingly non-scriptural, this imperative opposes mankind's propensity for evil in the sense that it is predicated on the basic theological premise that we should at all times strive to "give God a helping hand"...for want of a better phrase. And nowhere in recent memory has this axiom been more aptly stated than as follows:
"Here on earth, God's work must surely be our own." - John F. Kennedy (1961 Inaugural Address)
In summary, use whatever tools and talents that are available to achieve the Divine end in combating evil.
Whew..what a trip! From Micah to Kant to JFK...all in one fell swoop! How's that for an exegetical tour de force?
"He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" - Micah 6:8 (KJV)
Believers, of course, must choose to be on God's side. Even the righteous among non believers must rely on conscience. The more erudite among the latter class may make their decision based on what Immanuel Kant called the Categorical Imperative which is a moral constituent imbedded within most religious systems. Briefly stated, the Categorical Imperative dictates that, when one is faced with a decision, the only rational choice is to:
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it become a universal law."
IMHO, adhering to the above cannot but help but to be pleasing to God because, although seemingly non-scriptural, this imperative opposes mankind's propensity for evil in the sense that it is predicated on the basic theological premise that we should at all times strive to "give God a helping hand"...for want of a better phrase. And nowhere in recent memory has this axiom been more aptly stated than as follows:
"Here on earth, God's work must surely be our own." - John F. Kennedy (1961 Inaugural Address)
In summary, use whatever tools and talents that are available to achieve the Divine end in combating evil.
Whew..what a trip! From Micah to Kant to JFK...all in one fell swoop! How's that for an exegetical tour de force?
Dear Christians
Dont be troubled. To admit that God created evil is not denying God. Do not feel that you are disrespecting him, for God said himself that he created evil. We know that he created everything that exists with his word. Nothing is made that was made without him. Not one single thing. Everything was created for his purpose...his plan.. He is choosing children to fill his kingdom with. These children are the ones that will refuse the evil. He is sifting the good from the bad. We are learning valuable lessons.
Evil does not dwell with God or in him. He hates it. If evil did not exist then how could Christ redeem us? It was planned from the beginning and didn't accidently pop up. God wanted a son to glorify and he wanted more spiritual children that had to learn to deny the flesh first before entering.
Regards
Journey
Dont be troubled. To admit that God created evil is not denying God. Do not feel that you are disrespecting him, for God said himself that he created evil. We know that he created everything that exists with his word. Nothing is made that was made without him. Not one single thing. Everything was created for his purpose...his plan.. He is choosing children to fill his kingdom with. These children are the ones that will refuse the evil. He is sifting the good from the bad. We are learning valuable lessons.
Evil does not dwell with God or in him. He hates it. If evil did not exist then how could Christ redeem us? It was planned from the beginning and didn't accidently pop up. God wanted a son to glorify and he wanted more spiritual children that had to learn to deny the flesh first before entering.
Regards
Journey
C
so true there is no darkness in Him at all, His goodness and mercy is like no other, but remember who cursed man to start with for adams sin,
God is not evil, He is just and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him
John chapter 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was in the beginning with God.
3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
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