Did Jesus and Paul teach differnt gospels?

[posthuman]

Unless you consider Samaritans gentiles. Which although the Jews did, I don't think Jesus did.

I think that in Him, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but wouldn't you agree that in the passage below He affirms that a Samaritan is not a Jew? He says 'you' i.e. Samaritans worship what you don't know, but 'we' i.e. Jews worship what they do know.
He doesn't countermand the distinction the Samaritan woman ((and also the disciples)) make, in the flesh, but speaks as though in the Spirit they are coequal. It's mirrored in the same distinction according to the flesh He makes when He sends out the disciples and specifies that they should go to the Jews and not to Samaritans.

John 4:20-23
Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you [Jews] say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

 

[posthuman]

I would consider Samaritans as half Jewish. They were certainly despised by the Jews, one reason is because many of them intermarry with pagans, which was absolutely forbidden under the Law of Moses (Deut 7:3-4).

Jesus ministered healing to only 2 Gentiles during this time on Earth. The Centurion clearly had blessed the Jews by building a synagogue (Luke's account has the details), part of Abraham's covenant is that whoever blessed the Jews will be blessed, so Jesus healed his servant.

As for the Canaanite lady that you quoted, she was willing to humble herself and get her blessing thru the Jews too, "even the little dogs eat the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.” and Jesus similarly honored that same aspect of Abraham's covenant.

He also told Pilate that He was indeed the king of the Jews, and warned his wife in a dream.

So to a Samaritan adultress and the Roman prefect He openly claimed to be the Messiah and King. To what Jew did He declare this?

 

[posthuman]

I would consider Samaritans as half Jewish.

Half Jew is not Jew.
Why did He tell the disciples not to preach to Samaritans?

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo said: Jesus told his disciples to obey the scribes and the Pharisees.

Again, there's no single person on earth who keeps the law of Moses.

On their teachings of "Moses" not their own man made laws and ways.

Matthew 23:1-5, " 1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. ..........

You twist so much of what Jesus says into half truths and loopholes.

Here is what Jesus said:

The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do.

I said Jesus told his disciples to obey the Pharisees (observe what they say) - I didn't say Jesus told them to imitate the Pharisees' actions.

What have I twisted?

 

[Marcelo]

So exactly what passage are you taking about here? So I may knoew what you are taliknmg about, one of these or anothier?

Matthew 19:16-22, " “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” ........ Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”

Luke 12:22-34, " . 33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. .

I'm talking about both. Have you already given away all your material assets?

 

[Marcelo]

John 12:48, “He who rejects Me (Jesus), and does not follow My (Jesus) words has One Who judges him. The word that I (Jesus) have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

but you said Paul told you different so you can ignore Jesus am I correct?

Before the cross Jesus told the Jews to keep the law of Moses according to His reinterpretation of it..

After the ascension Jesus told the Gentiles to live according to the apostolic law.

I am a Gentile and live in the New Covenant era. I don't have to give away all my material assets; I don't have to sacrifice animals; I don't have to get circumcised; I don't have to keep the Sabbath; I don't have to obey the scribes and the Pharisees, etc.

 

[PennEd]

I think that in Him, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but wouldn't you agree that in the passage below He affirms that a Samaritan is not a Jew? He says 'you' i.e. Samaritans worship what you don't know, but 'we' i.e. Jews worship what they do know.
He doesn't countermand the distinction the Samaritan woman ((and also the disciples)) make, in the flesh, but speaks as though in the Spirit they are coequal. It's mirrored in the same distinction according to the flesh He makes when He sends out the disciples and specifies that they should go to the Jews and not to Samaritans.

John 4:20-23
Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you [Jews] say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship." Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

A fair point, but it also kinda confirms then that He DIDN'T preach, NOR SEND HIS APOSTLES to preach, to the Gentiles.


I lean toward Him recognizing that they are descendants of Abraham. But maybe not.

 

[posthuman]

A fair point, but it also kinda confirms then that He DIDN'T preach, NOR SEND HIS APOSTLES to preach, to the Gentiles.


I lean toward Him recognizing that they are descendants of Abraham. But maybe not.

how significant is it that while He didn't send His disciples to the non-Jews, He revealed Himself to a specific, sinful woman in a way that He hadn't to others, and she became a witness to the rest of those non-Jews?

Parallel to the calling of Paul?

 

[posthuman]

So now we have the equivalent question, did Christ give the same gospel to the woman at the well that He did to the Jews in Judea?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So now we have the equivalent question, did Christ give the same gospel to the woman at the well that He did to the Jews in Judea?

Yes, the gospel is the same for all

remember also, the woman at the well said something about the messiah comming, they were looking also,

 

[PennEd]

how significant is it that while He didn't send His disciples to the non-Jews, He revealed Himself to a specific, sinful woman in a way that He hadn't to others, and she became a witness to the rest of those non-Jews?

Parallel to the calling of Paul?

I think it's very significant. Similar to how, except in only 2 cases I can think of, He didn't preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, His Death and resurrection, EXCEPT to His inner circle Apostles. Preparing THEM to preach it.

Those exceptions are both cryptic.
John 3:14-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [a]not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 12:38-40 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Scribes and Pharisees Ask for a Sign
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”

39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

[garee]

I think it's very significant. Similar to how, except in only 2 cases I can think of, He didn't preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, His Death and resurrection, EXCEPT to His inner circle Apostles. Preparing THEM to preach it.

Those exceptions are both cryptic.
John 3:14-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [a]not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 12:38-40 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Scribes and Pharisees Ask for a Sign
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”

39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Are you referring to the first apostle prophesying as a messenger of God , Abel? He is also the first listed martyr.

 

[garee]

Before the cross Jesus told the Jews to keep the law of Moses according to His reinterpretation of it..

After the ascension Jesus told the Gentiles to live according to the apostolic law.

I am a Gentile and live in the New Covenant era. I don't have to give away all my material assets; I don't have to sacrifice animals; I don't have to get circumcised; I don't have to keep the Sabbath; I don't have to obey the scribes and the Pharisees, etc.

No such thing as a apostolic law. Men following laws of men as oral traditions . It opposed all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) making it without effect.

Traditions of men making the tradition of God (sola scriptura) to no effect.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[Guojing]

I think it's very significant. Similar to how, except in only 2 cases I can think of, He didn't preach THE Gospel unto Salvation, His Death and resurrection, EXCEPT to His inner circle Apostles. Preparing THEM to preach it.

Those exceptions are both cryptic.
John 3:14-15 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should [a]not perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 12:38-40 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Scribes and Pharisees Ask for a Sign
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”

39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Yes even with the Samaritan lady he preached to her his identity as the Son of God. That is the gospel of the kingdom

That is different from preaching that he will die for her sins and rise again for her justification

 

[garee]

Yes even with the Samaritan lady he preached to her his identity as the Son of God. That is the gospel of the kingdom

That is different from preaching that he will die for her sins and rise again for her justification

Really, how different seeing the outcome is the same eternal life. Salvation.

It would seem you are still looking for "lost tribes" as a unsolved mystery or wonderment. . a source of faith.

Jesus said marvel not that a man must be born again as a new creature.

Scripture informs us we are to know no man after the flesh (what the eyes see).

If these lost tribes have not the Spirit of Christ in respect to the faith of Christ working in them. Then they simply do not belong to Him

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Marcelo]

Marcelo said: Before the cross Jesus told the Jews to keep the law of Moses according to His reinterpretation of it..

After the ascension Jesus told the Gentiles to live according to the apostolic law.

I am a Gentile and live in the New Covenant era. I don't have to give away all my material assets; I don't have to sacrifice animals; I don't have to get circumcised; I don't have to keep the Sabbath; I don't have to obey the scribes and the Pharisees, etc.

No such thing as a apostolic law. Men following laws of men as oral traditions . It opposed all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) making it without effect.

Traditions of men making the tradition of God (sola scriptura) to no effect.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye

Maybe I'm using incorrect terminology. What if I say "New Covenant law" or "New Covenant doctrine"?

 

[oldhermit]

Greetings,





Since I have been on CC BDF I have noticed some hold a doctrine that Jesus teachings are either done away post resurrection/ascension or Jesus teachings are for Jews only and Paul's teachings are for Gentiles. I disagree with this and believe Jesus teachings are not done away and are for all people of every nation. I wanted to start a topic on this and see different views and different verses so I may know the truth. As I stated I have my view and believe it is correct.

I have two starting points:

1. While Jesus may had started in Israel, He sent all His chosen disciples to all the nations in the world:

Acts 1:6-8, " 6 So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

2. That Jesus words while on earth in the flesh are the true doctrine to follow and still valid:

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. 25 These things have I spoken unto you, being [yet] present with you. 26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words (teachings) will not pass away.”

Anyone who believes Jesus and Paul preached two different gospels really does not understand either one of them.

 

[Marcelo]

Anyone who believes Jesus and Paul preached two different gospels really does not understand either one of them.

I confess that I didn't understand some of Jesus' teachings while I never had much trouble to understand Paul.

For example: Jesus told His disciples to obey the scribes and the Pharisees whereas Paul said we are not under the Law.

Why did the Lord tell us to obey the scribes and the Pharisees if He came to deliver us from the Law? I could not really understand Jesus until I was given the following explanation: The Law of Moses was still in force and the Lord was basically expounding it.

 

[Guojing]

Anyone who believes Jesus and Paul preached two different gospels really does not understand either one of them.

You sold all you have and give to the poor?

You cut one body part off if it causes you to sin?

Oh wait Jesus did not really mean that...

 

[garee]

You sold all you have and give to the poor?

You cut one body part off if it causes you to sin?

Oh wait Jesus did not really mean that...

Not any more than the idea of lost tribes a mystery as a wonderment . Where are they? Marvel not Jesus said ...How will we distinguish one tribe from another?

Why is the Tribe of Dan removed form the description in Revelation 7?

Tribes equal gates by which we enter into fellowship with our husband Christ. Is there a gate missing?

Ask a Rabbi as master?