Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,341
6,649
113
62
unbelief is a sin. And we are all guilty of sin, yet Christ took our punishment :) but if you do not believe that you are not saved.
But if you believe, your unbelief was forgiven.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
29,594
113
I was at one time. So I committed the sin of unbelief a multitude of times. Yet I'm saved now. So I assume that means my unbelief was forgiven.
Via repentance. It is what God commands all to do.


Acts 17:30
:)
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
So why are people sent to hell in the first place?
They’re not (right now they reside on the wrong side of the Gulf):
"So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. "Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' "But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' Luke 16:22-26

At the end of the millennium, they will be judged by God at the Great White Throne Judgment.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,068
4,349
113
But if you believe, your unbelief was forgiven.
Less put Belief in Biblical context.

First off, Biblical Belief is synonymous with faith. World belief is not the intellectual acceptance or agreement in something.

When one ' Believes" in God, that is and was inspired by the Holy Spirit who opened the heart and eyes of that person to receive
thus given the ability to "Believe"
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,341
6,649
113
62
Are you a universalist?
No. I believe in a limited atonement based on the justice of God. But everyone has committed the sin of unbelief since we were all unbelievers at one point. If unbelief were unpardonable, no one would be saved.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,341
6,649
113
62
Less put Belief in Biblical context.

First off, Biblical Belief is synonymous with faith. World belief is not the intellectual acceptance or agreement in something.

When one ' Believes" in God, that is and was inspired by the Holy Spirit who opened the heart and eyes of that person to receive
thus given the ability to "Believe"
I agree. That doesn't mean we aren't guilty of the sin of unbelief.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,163
2,177
113
That's the point. Unbelief is forgiven. It's not the unpardonable sin if it is pardoned.
Jesus dying for the sins (note: has the term "all" been specified within the text?) of the world does not necessitate all the sins of the world if it is established that there is one unforgivable sin, which would be excluded from the qualification in "all" the sins of the world. (keeping in mind we may not have accurately established exactly what constitutes that one unforgiveable sin).
 
May 1, 2022
565
156
43
I appreciate your answer. So, if I follow correctly, your argument is that Jesus paid for every sin, people continue to sin, those sins are also paid for, but God sends them to hell anyway. Is this justice? Did God keep the covenant He made with the Son?
The New Testament, while affirming the security of the believer, also contains strong warnings against willful sinning and apostasy, indicating that such behaviors are incompatible with a regenerated life. Hebrews 10:26-27 warns, "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." This passage, among others, suggests that a lifestyle of deliberate sin is evidence of an unregenerate heart and calls into question the genuineness of one's faith. The apostle Paul echoes this in Galatians 5:21, stating that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God, urging believers to live by the Spirit and not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Therefore, while the grace of God in salvation is profoundly secure, it is also transformative, leading to a life increasingly characterized by holiness and obedience. True faith in Christ manifests in a life that seeks to honor God, marked by repentance from sin and growth in righteousness. The biblical call to perseverance and holiness is not a threat to the believer's security but a characteristic of genuine faith. It's important to approach this topic with humility, recognizing the balance Scripture maintains between the assurance of salvation and the call to live a life worthy of the calling we have received in Christ Jesus.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,341
6,649
113
62
Jesus dying for the sins (note: has the term "all" been specified within the text?) of the world does not necessitate all the sins of the world if it is established that there is one unforgivable sin, which would be excluded from the qualification in "all" the sins of the world.
I agree. What "all" means there is a subject of great debate. But you just opened the door for it to mean something other than totality. Most don't acknowledge that.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,341
6,649
113
62
The New Testament, while affirming the security of the believer, also contains strong warnings against willful sinning and apostasy, indicating that such behaviors are incompatible with a regenerated life. Hebrews 10:26-27 warns, "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." This passage, among others, suggests that a lifestyle of deliberate sin is evidence of an unregenerate heart and calls into question the genuineness of one's faith. The apostle Paul echoes this in Galatians 5:21, stating that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God, urging believers to live by the Spirit and not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Therefore, while the grace of God in salvation is profoundly secure, it is also transformative, leading to a life increasingly characterized by holiness and obedience. True faith in Christ manifests in a life that seeks to honor God, marked by repentance from sin and growth in righteousness. The biblical call to perseverance and holiness is not a threat to the believer's security but a characteristic of genuine faith. It's important to approach this topic with humility, recognizing the balance Scripture maintains between the assurance of salvation and the call to live a life worthy of the calling we have received in Christ Jesus.
None of this answers my question.
 
Dec 29, 2023
1,327
236
63
That doesn't mean we aren't guilty of the sin of unbelief.

Speak for yourself.

Unbelief is choosing to not believe what God said.

Some of us have more spiritual sense than to reject God's Word and chose to not believe it.




The New Testament, while affirming the security of the believer

ONLY those that continually abide IN Christ as still saved.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
Final judgment yes. But consequences of sin is judgment as well.
Do you believe unbelief is the unforgivable sin? If so, wouldn't we all be guilty of the sin of unbelief?
It may surprise you to learn that only the elect are capable of committing the unforgivable sin, but they will not. The Holy Spirit resides in believers, also known as the elect. Those who don't believe do not. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,346
29,594
113
No. I believe in a limited atonement based on the justice of God. But everyone has committed the sin of unbelief since we were all unbelievers at one point. If unbelief were unpardonable, no one would be saved.
That overlooks repentance, which includes coming to believe. If one dies in the state of unbelief, they are not saved.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,341
6,649
113
62
Speak for yourself.

Unbelief is choosing to not believe what God said.

Some of us have more spiritual sense than to reject God's Word and chose to not believe it.







ONLY those that continually abide IN Christ as still saved.
Did you always believe what God has said? Were you always saved? If not, you were once in unbelief.