Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Niki7

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Stan it would be helpful if you would limit the person you quote to a particular post. At least I would find it so. :unsure:

I do not find your response to the small quote from me above, to make sense actually. Perhaps you should have left it in context?
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

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BillyBob said:
Everyone has their own personal experience. I believe many, especially those from a Christian family, often do not remember when they became believers. It was at such an early age, and so subtle, that they might even say “I have always been a believer”.
However, when I became a believer, I was sitting in church feeling sorry for myself. Listening to a message that I knew was meant for all around me, but could not have anything to do with me. I was a sinner who had done so many things wrong – that God could never forgive me! Then, the message taught that day, proclaimed that there is no person beyond the reach of God, none so bad that they cannot be forgiven. My heart was changed, I believed and asked for forgiveness.

It was such a profound experience, one that simply could not be ignored! I assure you that I did not merit God's grace in any way. Maybe that is why I lean toward the reformed view of scripture, even though I don't like labels.
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My Grandpa and Dad were Pastors/Evangelists and I was saved at a young age. They knew I had limited knowledge back then but to prepare for my future they would let me ""preach"" but it basically was only a few sentences and then they would preach. But I remember my first ever 3 minute Sermon. How Jesus' Blood cleanses us like a Washer to dirty clothes hahahaha That's all I could understand at the age of 5. But I could see how my sins were washed away/removed by His shed Blood was the same concept to dirty clothes being cleaned in a washer.
 
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Niki7

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selahsays said:
The way I‘m understanding it, the Elect did not have to go through this earth age; they had already attained salvation; They were justified when God chose them before the foundation of the world. So the Elect came here as first fruits. They came on a mission from God—to spread the Gospel to the non-Elect so that they might be saved, too: Jesus prayed, "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word.” The “their” are the Elect. —selah
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There are not different classes of Christians. You are either saved by the grace of God or you are a part of the world system and still a slave in the slave market of the devil.

Not to be rude (really) but I think you may be somewhat confused here.

You are not born into this world saved. That is not found in scripture anywhere. From Genesis to Revelation, we are presented with C H O I C E
 
selahsays

selahsays

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So what do all of you think Jesus’ prayer in John 17 is telling us?
 
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Rufus

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Niki7 said:
I know this was written some time back...just over a month in fact, ( I have not been on here much so please excuse the lateness here) but why would someone laugh at the above? see original post for clarification # 17

Does this person reject the fact that salvation is open to whoever accepts Christ? Does this person also not believe that for the sake of all who do accept Christ, the Bible plainly states that they have become the righteousness of God because of Christ?

These are some very dangerous charges to lay at the feet of those who do accept Christ should a person decide that you are not of
'the elected' and therefore not really saved.

But as Paul states:

31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare His own Son but gave Him up for us all, how will He not also, along with Him, freely give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34Who is there to condemn us? For Christ Jesus, who died, and more than that was raised to life, is at the right hand of God—and He is interceding for us. Romans 8

So who is anyone to limit God's salvation? Who is anyone to reject the notion of God desiring that all should be saved?

This is not universal salvation by any means, so kindly let no one interpret my words as such, but God's desire for all to come to salvation, knowing that all will not so come.

Do you see the conflict and the division that Calvinism inserts into something so easy to understand? This is why it is dangerous and frankly, in my view, heretical in its displacement of 'whosoever will', to become 'some are created and destined for hell which God intended they should forever be with the devil in the lake of fire.'

That, is not the God of Abraham nor the God of the disciples nor the God who sent His only Son that whosoever will, may acknowledge, accept and desire salvation through that same Son and live eternally in the company of those who are His.
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For your info, NRs (Non-Reformed) also limit God's salvation! While we Reformed limit God's salvation quantitatively because it was never God's intention to save all in the world in the distributive sense, NRs limit His salvation qualitatively since they believe that God did not send the Son into this world to actually save it (Jn 3:17) but only sent him to make salvation possible or available for all; therefore, unlike the Reformed, NRs believe Christ's atonement isn't efficacious thereby limiting the quality of it.

Regarding what I bolded in red, would you please provide chapter and verse for your notion God desires all to be saved? Or are you going to appeal to 2Pet 3:9 as so many misguided and unskilled egegetes do?
 
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Niki7

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Rufus said:
For your info, NRs (Non-Reformed) also limit God's salvation! While we Reformed limit God's salvation quantitatively because it was never God's intention to save all in the world in the distributive sense, NRs limit His salvation qualitatively since they believe that God did not send the Son into this world to actually save it (Jn 3:17) but only sent him to make salvation possible or available for all; therefore, unlike the Reformed, NRs believe Christ's atonement isn't efficacious thereby limiting the quality of it.

Regarding what I bolded in red, would you please provide chapter and verse for your notion God desires all to be saved? Or are you going to appeal to 2Pet 3:9 as so many misguided and unskilled egegetes do?
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I am surpassing the desire to be sarcastic. Just so you know. ;)

OK. I am not reformed, non-reformed, Calvinist nor Arminian. Nor do I suppose I have all the answers or cannot change my mind if I find I have been wrong.

God help me, I am a simple Christian, Spirit-filled and desire to know and follow my Savior. Yet, I know God does not limit His great salvation no matter how much people may wish to find otherwise even when the words are plain and easily understood.

Feel free to answer the question I posed that you decided should be presented in red as though some trespass has been committed.

Thank you :)
 
R

Rufus

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Niki7 said:
There are not different classes of Christians. You are either saved by the grace of God or you are a part of the world system and still a slave in the slave market of the devil.

Not to be rude (really) but I think you may be somewhat confused here.

You are not born into this world saved. That is not found in scripture anywhere. From Genesis to Revelation, we are presented with C H O I C E
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Your tagline is most interesting for a NR person. Don't NRs insist that everyone is in charge of his own eternal destiny and that God wants us to exercise our free will to believe on Him through Christ? It would certainly seem, then, that all who wisely make that choice can boast that it was by their own doing they're in Christ, since ultimately it was their choice that put them there.
 
selahsays

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Niki7 said:
There are not different classes of Christians. You are either saved by the grace of God or you are a part of the world system and still a slave in the slave market of the devil.

Not to be rude (really) but I think you may be somewhat confused here.

You are not born into this world saved. That is not found in scripture anywhere. From Genesis to Revelation, we are presented with C H O I C E
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Niki7 said:
There are not different classes of Christians. You are either saved by the grace of God or you are a part of the world system and still a slave in the slave market of the devil.

Not to be rude (really) but I think you may be somewhat confused here.

You are not born into this world saved. That is not found in scripture anywhere. From Genesis to Revelation, we are presented with C H O I C E
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You are right about the part where you say that no one is born into this world saved. However, the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. When they hear the Gospel, they will always come to Jesus. Why? …because they are Elect.
 
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Niki7

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Rufus said:
Your tagline is most interesting for a NR person. Don't NRs insist that everyone is in charge of his own eternal destiny and that God wants us to exercise our free will to believe on Him through Christ? It would certainly seem, then, that all who wisely make that choice can boast that it was by their own doing they're in Christ, since ultimately it was their choice that put them there.
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I think you know better as that is the common claim of many a Calvinist and has therefore engendered mulitple of multiple denials of that inaccurate and actually disingenuous spoof of an attempt to discredit.

I believe that if you and other Calvinists were actually as certain of what you say you believe, you would not make such sad attempts to destroy the faith you see in others who are not of your persuasion.

You should let it go if that is all you have.

It's boring :giggle: and as your posts (2) have already deteriorated into personal gibes, I doubt I shall respond to you again unless you can find something other than what you perceive as my personal quirks or weaknesses. to poke at. They are under the blood of Christ.
 
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Rufus

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Niki7 said:
I am surpassing the desire to be sarcastic. Just so you know. ;)

OK. I am not reformed, non-reformed, Calvinist nor Arminian. Nor do I suppose I have all the answers or cannot change my mind if I find I have been wrong.

God help me, I am a simple Christian, Spirit-filled and desire to know and follow my Savior. Yet, I know God does not limit His great salvation no matter how much people may wish to find otherwise even when the words are plain and easily understood.

Feel free to answer the question I posed that you decided should be presented in red as though some trespass has been committed.

Thank you :)
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Oh...okay...I guess you fancy yourself as another Paul who became all things to all people so that he could win some? You don't subscribe to any theology -- you just believe the bible, right? Kool. Okay...but now I explained to you you, too, LIMIT the ATONEMENT --just not in the same way Reformed folks do (well...at least the TULIP variety). Now, what about a verse or two that says God wants everyone under the sun to be saved? Shirley, you must have at least that. ;)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Rufus said:
Your tagline is most interesting for a NR person. Don't NRs insist that everyone is in charge of his own eternal destiny and that God wants us to exercise our free will to believe on Him through Christ? It would certainly seem, then, that all who wisely make that choice can boast that it was by their own doing they're in Christ, since ultimately it was their choice that put them there.
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You classify me as NR, but I certainly do not do that.
 
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Niki7

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selahsays said:
You are right about the part where you say that no one is born into this world saved. However, the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. When they hear the Gospel, they will always come to Jesus. Why? …because they are Elect.
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Well thanks for that :)

It seems to me you are of the belief that there are 2 classes of Christians? (pls explain if I have this wrong) Some are elect and basically have no choice to be saved and the other class has a choice?

Did I get that right?
 
N

Niki7

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Rufus said:
Oh...okay...I guess you fancy yourself as another Paul who became all things to all people so that he could win some? You don't subscribe to any theology -- you just believe the bible, right? Kool. Okay...but now I explained to you you, too, LIMIT the ATONEMENT --just not in the same way Reformed folks do (well...at least the TULIP variety). Now, what about a verse or two that says God wants everyone under the sun to be saved? Shirley, you must have at least that. ;)
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Are you saying that in 137 pages no one has suppled that scripture to you?

In fact, I know I did just several posts back.

I cannot help you believe.
 
R

Rufus

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Niki7 said:
I think you know better as that is the common claim of many a Calvinist and has therefore engendered mulitple of multiple denials of that inaccurate and actually disingenuous spoof of an attempt to discredit.

I believe that if you and other Calvinists were actually as certain of what you say you believe, you would not make such sad attempts to destroy the faith you see in others who are not of your persuasion.

You should let it go if that is all you have.

It's boring :giggle: and as your posts (2) have already deteriorated into personal gibes, I doubt I shall respond to you again unless you can find something other than what you perceive as my personal quirks or weaknesses. to poke at. They are under the blood of Christ.
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No, I don't know better. The common mantra of NRs is that our eternal destiny ultimately lies in our own hands. WE DECIDE to be in Christ when we believe the gospel. Isn't that what you did? It was YOUR free will choice, even though you were dead in your sins, that put you in Christ, was it not?
 
selahsays

selahsays

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Niki7 said:
Well thanks for that :)

It seems to me you are of the belief that there are 2 classes of Christians? (pls explain if I have this wrong) Some are elect and basically have no choice to be saved and the other class has a choice?

Did I get that right?
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Yes, you got that right. IMG_6012.gif I’m a Christian—I don’t hold to any label.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Rufus said:
How? God intends for all his people to confidently know that they are HIS children. What part of 1Jn 5:13 don't you get?
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First you say no one can know, then you say you do know... that's a contradiction. And I already said that we can know according to Scripture, so your pretense that I don't understand is just that -> a pretense.
 
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Rufus

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Niki7 said:
Are you saying that in 137 pages no one has suppled that scripture to you?

In fact, I know I did just several posts back.

I cannot help you believe.
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I haven't read every single post in this thread. What's the matter: Have you forgotten your prooftext? You can't even cite it? But I do know this: God didn't desire the salvation of either Ishmael or Esau in Romans 9. So...there's that. And since those two are explicitly excluded, then God cannot havbe desired in eternity the salvation of all in the distributive sense, could he?
 
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