Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[Niki7]

And your problem is that you spend so many words to say absolutely nothing that refutes my interpretation of Rom 5:8 -- all with irrelevant scriptures. The irrefutable fact remains is that the verb tenses in the text do NOT agree. And "us" doesn't = sinners either. You should do yourself a huge favor and become acquainted with at least the first principles of hermeneutics.

Get off the Merry go round of disinformation you seem to enjoy. If you really want to gaslight people as much as you seem predisposed to do, you will have to become much better at it.

You skip over and ignore any scripture that illustrates something other than reformed retrograde Calvinism 2.0

It is noticeable to anyone who can read and that would mean anyone reading this thread. What is it you hope to achieve by this tactic?

I do not have time right now....but I will be happy to remind you of some of the scripture you have ignored because it does not give credence to reformed technology doctrine.

And the biggest favor I can do for myself is to spend time in the presence of God to prepare myself for the onslaught of doubters and reformers in this particular forum. To be sure, the reformed do appear to be in the minority and seem to be challenged by the fact by asserting everyone else is wrong and often do so with comments that are snarky and personal, rather than sticking to the content of a post or the topic of the op. (sorry for the run on sentence. not)

 

[Niki7]

What is Reformed Theology? - Hermeneutics

The Reformed view of the Bible is simple. We believe that the Bible is inspired by God, infallible, inerrant, authoritative, sufficient, unified, necessary, useful, singular in truth and powerful. God does not continue to speak today, since the canon is closed, but he illuminates his word through the work of his Holy Spirit to make us alive in Christ as we deepen our understanding of Scripture.

yeah the only thing wrong there is that God has not changed; Jesus is the same in all tenses of what we call reality and the Holy Spirit is also the same.

I knew this anyway, but it appears the reformers prefer Him to take a back seat and cannot abide anything relating to personal guidance or personal relationship with 'the living God'.

This, sadly, explains the often harsh judgements and apparent inability to deny all and everything but their own doctrine. And it is their own doctrine and not what we know of the truth that ALL may come to Christ even though all will not do so.

 

[Niki7]

Because you call yourself a Christian and as such have an obligation to manifest to the world the character of God. By showing hatred towards others rather than love, you have actually done the very thing that you accuse others of doing.

honestly makes me wanna

you are also an expert at twisting and changing the intent of a post

whatever

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Get off the Merry go round of disinformation you seem to enjoy. If you really want to gaslight people as much as you seem predisposed to do, you will have to become much better at it.

Now that you have mentioned gaslighting, Reformers, very much do appear to be narcissistic.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Even in simple back-n-forth conversations, they talk down to you.
That's a vital trait of both narcissist and the psychotic.
Great insight on your behalf

 

[Rufus]

I never said it was in there or that you did, but I also know your tactics.
Esau, in his free will chose to reject God by rejecting his Birthright.
Of course God would hate that.

So then, why did you ask the question?


Also,, Rom 9 says that God hated Esau himself...AND...long before he did anything good or bad. I take it that that you disagree with Paul who only wrote what Jesus revealed to him (Jn 16:12-15)?

 

[Niki7]

The character of God .... I find that is not actually well represented by those who believe God chooses who is saved and everyone else is fodder for the fire

The OT is also illustrative of the character of God. He is not playing around. The Israelites were to destroy...that is kill until dead...everyone and everything, including cute little children...what we would call innocent, who were occupying the land
God was giving to His chosen people. Not much love there.

In the NT we can use that as a metaphor and apply it to the renewing of our minds...the taking down of strongholds and so o

I have yet to see in this or any other forum, where a Calvinist or quasi-Calvinist will discuss anything like that, but preferring instead to attack the character of others as though they had some 'aha' moment of clarity and judgement granted them by God Himself.

 

[Niki7]

Now that you have mentioned gaslighting, Reformers, very much do appear to be narcissistic.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Even in simple back-n-forth conversations, they talk down to you.
That's a vital trait of both narcissist and the psychotic.
Great insight on your behalf

Well it is lessons learned from life itself. But thanks!

And yes, gaslighting is a technique of borderline personality disorders .... some consider the narcs to be included in that and some believe it is a separate classification.

Not calling anyone here a narc or classifying anyone as borderline. Anyone can use those techniques....but gaslighting is gaslighting

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

So then, why did you ask the question?

Because you preach that God chooses who will be saved and who will not so it makes sense then you would believe God made Esau do that to ensure he was not saved.

Also,, Rom 9 says that God hated Esau himself...AND...long before he did anything good or bad. I take it that that you disagree with Paul who only wrote what Jesus revealed to him (Jn 16:12-15)?

God knew what Esau would do. If you think God did not know that Esau would choose to reject God that's a whole other set of paradigms.

 

[Niki7]

So then, why did you ask the question?

why is the sky blue?

why is water able to manifest in 3 distinct forms?

why didn't God send Jesus in another time frame?

why are cats and dogs usually enemies?

why do I like spaghetti so much?

why why why

why can't you discuss the op instead of the people here. notice that was not actually a question. reformers have to score points to convince themselves how right they are

Calvin happily killed and persecuted those who were not enthralled with his opinions and doctrine.

 

[Rufus]

Get off the Merry go round of disinformation you seem to enjoy. If you really want to gaslight people as much as you seem predisposed to do, you will have to become much better at it.

You skip over and ignore any scripture that illustrates something other than reformed retrograde Calvinism 2.0

It is noticeable to anyone who can read and that would mean anyone reading this thread. What is it you hope to achieve by this tactic?

I do not have time right now....but I will be happy to remind you of some of the scripture you have ignored because it does not give credence to reformed technology doctrine.

And the biggest favor I can do for myself is to spend time in the presence of God to prepare myself for the onslaught of doubters and reformers in this particular forum. To be sure, the reformed do appear to be in the minority and seem to be challenged by the fact by asserting everyone else is wrong and often do so with comments that are snarky and personal, rather than sticking to the content of a post or the topic of the op. (sorry for the run on sentence. not)

I'll definitely take you up on that offer. Go for it. (I'm always up for a good belly laugh, most especially since "disinformation" is a NR specialty.) I'm sure whatever you come up with, it'll pale by comparison to all the scriptures you NR folks have ignored in one form or another.

 

[selahsays]

Everybody has free-will.

Well then, … sooo why does everybody argue endlessly about whether or not we have free will in regards to salvation. Me? I believe that everyone in this age must choose—choose whether or not to follow Jesus or Satan. So what’s all the fussing about?

@Rufus

 

[Niki7]

I'll definitely take you up on that offer. Go for it. (I'm always up for a good belly laugh, most especially since "disinformation" is a NR specialty.) I'm sure whatever you come up with, it'll pale by comparison to all the scriptures you NR folks have ignored in one form or another.

jelly belly?

if you do, that will be a distinct first

if you are pale, take some sun. Vitamin D is actually good for you but do not go the beach and lie in the sun all day or you will burn

If you are so keen and so well equipped, why have we not seen evidence of that? I have yet to be surprised by your offerings

 

[Niki7]

So then, why did you ask the question?


Also,, Rom 9 says that God hated Esau himself...AND...long before he did anything good or bad. I take it that that you disagree with Paul who only wrote what Jesus revealed to him (Jn 16:12-15)?

foreknowledge. I believe I have attained some in this forum regarding how some folks will respond

However, God does not need that evidence

 

[Niki7]

but like I said...later.

 

[MerSee]

Well then, … sooo why does everybody argue endlessly about whether or not we have free will in regards to salvation. Me? I believe that everyone in this age must choose—choose whether or not to follow Jesus or Satan. So what’s all the fussing about?

@Rufus

They want to be their own God. Their idol is Aleister Crowley. Aleister Crowley said, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

 

[selahsays]

They want to be their own God. Their idol is Aleister Crowley. Aleister Crowley said, "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

…but doesn‘t Calvinism teach that the Elect don’t choose? I say everyone chooses.

 

[Magenta]

Well then, … sooo why does everybody argue endlessly about whether or not we have free will in regards to salvation. Me? I believe that everyone in this age must choose—choose whether or not to follow Jesus or Satan. So what’s all the fussing about?

Some of the fussing is about the subtleties. Some calvinists or 5 pointers will say that man has no part in it at all, and that they did not have a choice. Others will say they chose of their own free will as if - and even making outright claims that amount to - they needed no help from God at all to choose to believe. I'm sure if we tried we could come up with quite a list... Adding this, as it is notable to me that I rarely see the circumcision of the heart being discussed, though iI do bring it up from time to time and also post my Deut. panel on it...

 

[BillyBob]

I must admit that I am reformed in my belief.
The above statement is not intended to provoke an argument. It simply states who I am and always will be.
Since becoming a Christian, I have come to my own personal conclusion – that to be otherwise attempts to rob God of His glory, even though I know that He cannot be robbed!
When considering the differences between reformed vs non/reformed views, which are many, I know that I also argue about things which probably do not make any difference when it comes to being a child of God.

For example:
I honestly believe that I was made a new creature before I became a believer and put my trust in the work of Christ. In other words, the Spirit first renewed my heart – to enable me to hear and believe.
Others will argue – No, that cannot happen. You must hear the word and believe, then you will be made a new creature. (faith comes by hearing). I would agree that hearing is required, but the heart must first be made ready to receive the message.

My question is:
If you have actually put your trust in Christ, regardless of your understanding, are you acceptable in God's sight? He does tell us that, for now, we see through a glass darkly. Therefore, is trust the most important thing?
In most churches, including my own, the questions asked prior tor partaking in the Lord's Supper are:, 1) are you are a member of a Bible believing church and 2) have you placed your trust in Christ and Christ alone for the forgiveness of tour sins? They would never ask – are you reformed or non/reformed!

 

[selahsays]

I must admit that I am reformed in my belief.
The above statement is not intended to provoke an argument. It simply states who I am and always will be.
Since becoming a Christian, I have come to my own personal conclusion – that to be otherwise attempts to rob God of His glory, even though I know that He cannot be robbed!
When considering the differences between reformed vs non/reformed views, which are many, I know that I also argue about things which probably do not make any difference when it comes to being a child of God.

For example:
I honestly believe that I was made a new creature before I became a believer and put my trust in the work of Christ. In other words, the Spirit first renewed my heart – to enable me to hear and believe.
Others will argue – No, that cannot happen. You must hear the word and believe, then you will be made a new creature. (faith comes by hearing). I would agree that hearing is required, but the heart must first be made ready to receive the message.

My question is:
If you have actually put your trust in Christ, regardless of your understanding, are you acceptable in God's sight? He does tell us that, for now, we see through a glass darkly. Therefore, is trust the most important thing?
In most churches, including my own, the questions asked prior tor partaking in the Lord's Supper are:, 1) are you are a member of a Bible believing church and 2) have you placed your trust in Christ and Christ alone for the forgiveness of tour sins? They would never ask – are you reformed or non/reformed!

Thanks for this, @BillyBob. Even in John 6:44-45, our Father’s drawing requires a choice to come, right?
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. "It is written in the prophets, 'And they shall all be taught by God.' Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

- John 6:44-45

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

My question is:
If you have actually put your trust in Christ, regardless of your understanding, are you acceptable in God's sight? He does tell us that, for now, we see through a glass darkly. Therefore, is trust the most important thing?
In most churches, including my own, the questions asked prior tor partaking in the Lord's Supper are:, 1) are you are a member of a Bible believing church and 2) have you placed your trust in Christ and Christ alone for the forgiveness of tour sins? They would never ask – are you reformed or non/reformed!

At least when I present the subject matter of "Free Will," I do so knowing that it was God who brought me to a place to understand Who He is in order to believe in Him. But to say I believe or that I do not believe, that is my only choice in the matter. He does the rest.