Thanks Roger, but I don’t exactly see your point. Are you saying that free will was allowed in the OC but not in the NC? 
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Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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He hardly ever is able to make one. He's too busy posting scripture that do not actually relate to what he thinks it means. Many times it is specifically only for the Believers and he's trying to apply it to the sinners without God.
Absolutely! God literally and supernaturally created his own nation from Abraham who was as "good as dead" (Rom 4:19; Heb 11:12) due to his old age and from Sarah's dead womb! God sovereignly entered into a personal, loving, unconditional relationship with Abraham to create a people for Himself. If that isn't election, then I don't know what is! Moreover, the Abraham Covenant is a redemptive covenant by nature in which God wasted no time whatsoever to drive the point home early on that the people who descended from Abraham and Sarah ultimately came into this world by God's power alone! I am convinced this is one of the reasons why God rejected Ishmael from participating in this redemptive covenant of promise. This covenant was going to be fulfilled solely by God Sovereign Grace (a/k/a power)!
Sister, I have some really good stuff that I'll be beaming up soon. But it's not milk! It's not Theology 101! More like tough meat, Theology 303 <g>. So, I hope you can find the time to read the lengthy article to which I'll be linking everyone. Take it in bite-sized chunks. The article asks four major sets of theological questions, so take 'em all one at a time at a pace that is comfortable for you. Each set of questions addresses a specific issue that detractors to the Five Doctrines of Grace often use in their attempt to refute these doctrines, most especially the doctrine of Total Depravity.
Sister, I have some really good stuff that I'll be beaming up soon. But it's not milk! It's not Theology 101! More like tough meat, Theology 303 <g>. So, I hope you can find the time to read the lengthy article to which I'll be linking everyone. Take it in bite-sized chunks. The article asks four major sets of theological questions, so take 'em all one at a time at a pace that is comfortable for you. Each set of questions addresses a specific issue that detractors to the Five Doctrines of Grace often use in their attempt to refute these doctrines, most especially the doctrine of Total Depravity.
Indeed, this is the final nail in coffin and the ultimate fatal flaw which hinges on "dead" being made synonymous with >>>>>>unable, depraved, born with an innate moral inability to respond.
And yet throughout the New Testament people are commanded to believe, yeah that is right, and commended for their belief.
The case is closed!!
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I said OFFSPRING. Same thing!
There is NO Ezekiel 14:31!
Maybe you mean this:
22 And, behold, though there be left a remnant therein that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters; behold, when they come forth unto you, and ye see their way and their doings, then ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it;
But that is not talking about the Wilderness People.
There is NO Ezekiel 14:31!
Maybe you mean this:
22 And, behold, though there be left a remnant therein that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters; behold, when they come forth unto you, and ye see their way and their doings, then ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it;
But that is not talking about the Wilderness People.
I hope he teaches it more and more and more and more. Only a person who has not only studied the entire Bible can understand this, but a person who has been given the eyes, ears, and heart to see, hear, and comprehend what the Lord intends for HIS Elect to understand. Those who are not given these Spiritual gifts are apparently forbidden to understand. There is Scripture that demonstrates this principle . . . that is extant to this day.
Isaiah 29:11-13 NLT - 11 "All the future events in this vision are like a sealed book to them. When you give it to those who can read, they will say, "We can't read it because it is sealed." 12 When you give it to those who cannot read, they will say, "We don't know how to read." 13 And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote."
2 Corinthians 3:12-16 NLT - 12 "Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. 16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away."
Isaiah 29:11-13 NLT - 11 "All the future events in this vision are like a sealed book to them. When you give it to those who can read, they will say, "We can't read it because it is sealed." 12 When you give it to those who cannot read, they will say, "We don't know how to read." 13 And so the Lord says, "These people say they are mine. They honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. And their worship of me is nothing but man-made rules learned by rote."
2 Corinthians 3:12-16 NLT - 12 "Since this new way gives us such confidence, we can be very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory, even though it was destined to fade away. 14 But the people's minds were hardened, and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth. And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ. 15 Yes, even today when they read Moses' writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand. 16 But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away."
Well, not always. Saul was Saved by Grace though he was on the Damascus Road, on his way to find Christians to devour. Saul's doctrine of Christ was as far off as could be.
Be very careful not to limit and restrict the Purpose, Work, and Effect of Christ's Work. For to do so is to not understand the Saving Plan of Jesus.
Be very careful not to limit and restrict the Purpose, Work, and Effect of Christ's Work. For to do so is to not understand the Saving Plan of Jesus.
OK man. Let me ask you this:
Were those Israelites in the wildness that were saved by gazing at the bronze serpent firstly "foreordained" to do it? Which is what the absurd super-deterministic hyper-Calvinists must demand of the situation.
The obvious fact is that they first decided to do so and then acted upon that FREE WILL decision.
And.....were saved by their faithful (and obedient) action in the provision that God had firstly set forth.
Simple as pie.
Were those Israelites in the wildness that were saved by gazing at the bronze serpent firstly "foreordained" to do it? Which is what the absurd super-deterministic hyper-Calvinists must demand of the situation.
The obvious fact is that they first decided to do so and then acted upon that FREE WILL decision.
And.....were saved by their faithful (and obedient) action in the provision that God had firstly set forth.
Simple as pie.
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There is a teaching that appears to place the horse in front of the cart here, that is, asserting that the veil must be taken away before anyone turns to the Lord.
And Saul does appear to be a solid example of this assertion but, how can we be sure that something did not 'lean his head toward' (and 'prime' his ears for) the Lord while holding Stephen's garment?
And Saul does appear to be a solid example of this assertion but, how can we be sure that something did not 'lean his head toward' (and 'prime' his ears for) the Lord while holding Stephen's garment?
The issue is actually SEPARATION.
By God's definition, death is SEPARATION from Him. Eternal death = eternal separation.
G2920
κρίσις
krisis
Thayer Definition:
1) a separating, sundering, separation
Adam did not keel over when he ate the fruit. But he did willingly decide to DIE aka SEPARATE from his God to save the woman.
The first Adam in the first garden sweat great drops of blood (in effect) agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming a sinner) to take responsibility of the sin of his bride to save his bride.
The last Adam in the olive garden sweat great drops of blood agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming sin for us) to take responsibility of the sin of His Bride to save His Bride.
By God's definition, death is SEPARATION from Him. Eternal death = eternal separation.
G2920
κρίσις
krisis
Thayer Definition:
1) a separating, sundering, separation
Adam did not keel over when he ate the fruit. But he did willingly decide to DIE aka SEPARATE from his God to save the woman.
The first Adam in the first garden sweat great drops of blood (in effect) agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming a sinner) to take responsibility of the sin of his bride to save his bride.
The last Adam in the olive garden sweat great drops of blood agonizing over his FREE WILL decision to DIE (give up his life of sweet loving harmony and perfect fellowship with his God, becoming sin for us) to take responsibility of the sin of His Bride to save His Bride.
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Lol . . .
Okay okay. Let's do a quick reset and lower the hostilities. Why? Because I find this to be a fascinating topic that you have presented me with the opportunity to discuss. Mind you, I won't argue with you, but I will discuss. This means being kind and gentle with each other.
So . . . I am interested in this conversation because it is one that I have never had before. Also, I'm old! So let's just go at this little by little.
The great question you offered is: Do I think that the people who were not allowed to enter the Promised Land were saved. My answer:
At this point, I would say no. Now that I have answered your question, will you answer mine? Why were Caleb and Joshua the ONLY original men to exit Egypt, allowed to cross the Jordan? What was unique about them?
Okay okay. Let's do a quick reset and lower the hostilities. Why? Because I find this to be a fascinating topic that you have presented me with the opportunity to discuss. Mind you, I won't argue with you, but I will discuss. This means being kind and gentle with each other.
So . . . I am interested in this conversation because it is one that I have never had before. Also, I'm old! So let's just go at this little by little.
The great question you offered is: Do I think that the people who were not allowed to enter the Promised Land were saved. My answer:
At this point, I would say no. Now that I have answered your question, will you answer mine? Why were Caleb and Joshua the ONLY original men to exit Egypt, allowed to cross the Jordan? What was unique about them?
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Beautiful! Thank you for saying this. Spiritual Circumcision was taught by Stephen in Acts 7 for the first time in the New Testament (according to the timeline, chronological study of the Bible. And you are CORRECT!!! Saul was there to hear this teaching and no doubt, he remembered it. This is so important!! Later named Paul, this master of doctrine unpacks Spiritual Circumcision for us, but he did so in a way that nearly all Christians are unable to see it. But Paul . . . Oh I love Acts chapter 7! Stephen even talks about Abraham, our Father of Faith, the Father of the Family of Circumcision. Acts 7 is central to the entire Bible.
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