Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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Genez

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Oct 12, 2017
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I know this is what you believe, but the particular passage you referenced is only speaking about whether he is the Christ or not.
Are you referring to John saying he is not the Christ?

I was citing that passage to show what John said concerning not being the bride of Christ....
Can we get on the same page, please?
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Hint....

Where was the woman before a rib was removed from Adam's side?
She was where? .... In him!


And, where is our resurrection body now being "stored?"
IN HIM!

We were chosen IN HIM to be His Bride...

Moses was not so chosen in Him...
None of the OT believers were either.

I found this to be astounding when I first learned it.

grace and peace!
I have a better question for you: Where was Adam before he sinned and after he sinned?

On the other hand, Moses and all the other "OT believers" were of the Woman's godly seed. So...there is that.

P.S. And how could the woman have been anywhere or in anyone BEFORE she was created? Wasn't the woman created from Adam's rib? :rolleyes: Get confused often between your befores and afters?

P.P.S. For the record, I'm not astounded at all that you didn't see this and still don't.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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I have a better question for you: Where was Adam before he sinned and after he sinned?
That was a way to evade what I was getting at......

Why should I answer you, when you refused (avoided) to answer me?

You can not answer me correctly without admitting your own error.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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PaulThomson said:
If God is angry that people will not believe in Him, despite His giving them such evidence that they are without excuse for not believing in Him, and the reason they will not believe is because God has deliberately withheld repentance and faith from them, God is angry at His own actions.



Your reponse id proof that calvinism is a form of psychosis.

Psychosis refers to a collection of symptoms that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. During an episode of psychosis, a person's thoughts and perceptions are disrupted and they may have difficulty recognizing what is real and what is not. A robot is not morally responsible for its actions just because its creator decides to blame it for what the creator programmed it to do. A man who removes the rotor from his car and then takes to his car with a sledge-hammer because it won't start calling it rebellious and sinful, is having a psychotic episode.
But man isn't a robot. Man really does have the knowledge of good and evil, for he drinks up the latter like water, and he hates the good because his deeds are evil. Don't you know: Robots don't have emotions or hearts!?

Prov 1:7
7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools DESPISE wisdom and discipline.
NIV

You're going to have to come up with a much better analogy for sinners, other than your inane "robot" idea. How 'bout a couple of other biblical ones in addition to fools, such "slaves" or "prisoners"? We could start a dialogue with these.

Just because you can't wrap your worldly, fleshly mind around Prov 16:9 and several other very similar passages I posted a few days ago, you don't have to feel like this is your free get-out-jail pass to freely wax stupid (Eccl 10:3) and shamelessly make a spectacle of yourself.

P.S. I'll be happy to help you understand such passages if you want. But if you don't, I can fully understand, thanks to scripture.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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That was a way to evade what I was getting at......

Why should I answer you, when you refused (avoided) to answer me?

You can not answer me correctly without admitting your own error.
How could I answer such incoherent mumbo jumbo?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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P.S. And how could the woman have been anywhere or in anyone BEFORE she was created? Wasn't the woman created from Adam's rib?
Her soul was created in Genesis 1:26-27.


Her body for that soul was produced from the substance of Adam's rib.
Body not created like her soul was created "out from nothing" in Genesis 1:27.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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John the Baptist is going to have a resurrection body.
But, it will not be the same body as the glorified Jesus' body we will have.
The glorified body like Jesus has been chosen only for His Bride.

Like Adam's body was "molded and formed" from the elements of the earth?
So the OT saints will have their resurrection bodies consisting from the elements of the everlasting New Earth.

Our bodies when resurrected will be of Heaven, not the everlasting new earth.
This nonsense could only emanate from the mind of a Dispensationalist. Am I wrong?
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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This nonsense could only emanate from the mind of a Dispensationalist. Am I wrong?
I have no idea what spaceship you get beamed up to for your bible lessons....

How did you make that leap? It has nothing to do with dispensationalism.
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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1 Corinthians 1:18
:)
The cross is not the power of god to Calvinists. To Calvinists, Irresistible Grace is the power of God. Under Calvinism, it is not the message of the cross has has power to win the hearts of sinners. To Calvinists the message of the cross, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God as propitiation r the the sins of the world, is foolishness..
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Her soul was created in Genesis 1:26-27.


Her body for that soul was produced from the substance of Adam's rib.
Body not created like her soul was created "out from nothing" in Genesis 1:27.
Gen 1 is the flyover overview of all Creation. Verses 26 and 27 simply tell us that A&E were both created on the same day.

Gen 2 begins a recapitulation of the "crown" to his creation: Man. More detail is added about Man and the Garden. Adam was not created ex nihilo! He was created from the earth. And this chapter teaches explicitly that God had "breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life whereby he became a living soul (or being) by virtue of possessing God's Spirit. Therefore, we should not assume that God did the same with Eve. To insist that he did would be an argument from silence.

Also, the command given to not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was given only to Adam. Eve wasn't even created until after Adam named and classified all the animals in the animal kingdom. Eve's knowledge of the command came from Adam.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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I have no idea what spaceship you get beamed up to for your bible lessons....

How did you make that leap? It has nothing to do with dispensationalism.
So, what from what theological school does you eschatology hail, pray tell?
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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[QUOTE="PaulThomson, post: 5330171, member: 327121"]The cross is not the power of god to Calvinists. To Calvinists, Irresistible Grace is the power of God. Under Calvinism, it is not the message of the cross has has power to win the hearts of sinners. To Calvinists the message of the cross, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God as propitiation r the the sins of the world, is foolishness..[/QUOTE]

You should quit speaking of what you don't know and what you understand. The Cross of Christ and his Resurrection is central to the Gospel; for God's grace never came at the expense of divine justice! Jesus bore his Father's wrath and justice for the sake of his Father's glory and His elect chosen before the foundation of the world.
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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The natural man must be MADE able to seek God.

Grace causes such an ability by freeing up the soul and silencing the effects of the flesh,
allowing that soul enabled by grace to seek with blinders of the flesh pulled away for as
long as God determines.

That is the mechanics of the process of being drawn by God.
Now, you're cookin' with gas. And how God makes Natural Man able to seek Him is by raising him from the dead! But the rest of your post.... :rolleyes::rolleyes: ??
 

Rufus

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Feb 17, 2024
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Boo hooo! :cry:

Mr. spiritual bully can't force his human way of thinking upon me.
So, now he must resort to some human philosophical reasoning to try to make it work?


And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more
and more in knowledge and depth of insight. Philippians 1:9​


The way you have been functioning in your emotions and human reasoning? Needed insight, stays out of your sight.

You keep approaching us as if we are not a real new creation.
But rather, as the same old humans we used to be.

Warning....

Better get on that train before it leaves the station.......
Well you know...even blind squirrels find the occasional chestnut. Shakepeare did with famous quote that I have often posted here. And Mr. Occam did. His philosophical principle accords well with:

Eccl 10:13-14a
13 At the beginning his words are folly;
at the end they are wicked madness —
14 and the fool multiplies words...

NIV

And not only this but if there's anyone in this universe who knows how to say so much in so few words, it's the Spirit of the Living God who inspired scripture. God invented Brevity.

So...yeah...I'm shamelessly a fan of Occam's Razor.
 

Genez

Junior Member
Oct 12, 2017
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Gen 1 is the flyover overview of all Creation. Verses 26 and 27 simply tell us that A&E were both created on the same day..
Dang! You even know better than what the Hebrew says!

When you are willing to humble yourself and stop listening to the "spirit" you claim is the Holy Spirit,

You may actually begin to learn what riches are contained in the original languages of Scripture ...

Until then? Looks like you are going to be a very determined loose cannon.
 

PaulThomson

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Oct 29, 2023
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[QUOTE="PaulThomson, post: 5330171, member: 327121"]The cross is not the power of god to Calvinists. To Calvinists, Irresistible Grace is the power of God. Under Calvinism, it is not the message of the cross has has power to win the hearts of sinners. To Calvinists the message of the cross, the sacrifice of the Lamb of God as propitiation for the the sins of the world, is foolishness..
You should quit speaking of what you don't know and what you understand. The Cross of Christ and his Resurrection is central to the Gospel; for God's grace never came at the expense of divine justice! Jesus bore his Father's wrath and justice for the sake of his Father's glory and His elect chosen before the foundation of the world.[/QUOTE]

As I said, the message of the cross as propitiation for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2), where Christ tasted death for every man (Heb. 2:9) is foolishness to you. Your case is not hopeless. Jesus bought false prophets with his own blood. Many ex-calvinists left calvinism and continue to walk with Christ in deed and in truth. You can be a Christian without the folly of calvinism. I fell into calvinism for one month once, until I realised its many errors.