Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Romansd 9 - 11 is about God choosing Israel.

Your right, He had mercy on Israel for many years. He had no mercy on Edom. (Esau) He destroyed them.
Not about God choosing Israel.

It's about the election (or not) of certain people by God to salvation.

[Rom 9:10-11, 15-16 KJV]
10 And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth ...
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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2 Timothy 4:3
1 I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. 3 For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears 4 And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 5 But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry. Be sober.
This does not refute anything I have said.

It just shows that man who not come to the light because their deeds are evil. so they have no desire to.,

But they have no excuse. they willingly denied Christ..
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Great news! It's really good to know that everyone will become saved. So, if Jesus died for everyone, then no one, cannot, not, be saved, otherwise, it would mean that Jesus is not the Saviour, right?
False precept based on faulty reasoning

Jesus died for the sin of all man, All manner of sin will be forgiven all men

But he did not die for unbelief.
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Why does it bother so much that Jesus did not shed His blood for the nonelect? All the nonelect do is believe and behave badly anyway.

1 Timothy 6:3
1 Whosoever are servants under the yoke, let them count their masters worthy of all honour; lest the name of the Lord and his doctrine be blasphemed. 2 But they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but serve them the rather, because they are faithful and beloved, who are partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to that doctrine which is according to godliness. 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but sick about questions and strifes of words; from which arise envies, contentions, blasphemies, evil suspicions, 5 Conflicts of men corrupted in mind, and who are destitute of the truth, supposing gain to be godliness.
If they believed and trusted God they would be saved.

As for behaving badly. All have sinned and fall short.

Don't puff yourself up as if you are righteous. that would be a grave error
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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No, there clearly isn't a third choice. Either Christ alone is the Saviour or He is not, period. A person cannot contribute to nor
cause one's own salvation and in believing so is where you error, and it is indeed a very great error.
your right

But they must say yes and recieve it.

That is not contributing to it, nor is it causing his own salvation.

It is allowing God to save him. God will nto save you against your will
 

Everlasting-Grace

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That's absurd! I believe that you're wrong, and not only wrong but very wrong at that. You need to learn what it means that
Jesus alone is the Saviour. You don't seem to have any understanding of that.
Actually you need to learn what it means, and stop thinking that a person who reached out his hand in faith saved themself
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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Not about God choosing Israel.

It's about the election (or not) of certain people by God to salvation.

[Rom 9:10-11, 15-16 KJV]
10 And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;
11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth ...
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Wrong

9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Purpose
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect.


Its about Israel.
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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Not about God choosing Israel.

It's about the election (or not) of certain people by God to salvation.
Did you see my Post #130?


[quoting that post here]

[where I'd quoted E-G] Everlasting-Grace said:
He did not love his nation (edom) as much as he loved the nation of Jacob.
[and said...]

Genesis 25:23 -
and He declared to her: Two nations are in your womb [i.e. "before they were BORN / being not yet born" ;) (<--Rom9's wording)], and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.”




[He had/has a specific purpose for the one..., right. (meaning, the one / one nation / one people ^ )]


[end quoting from Post #130]


____________

"IN YOUR WOMB / BEFORE they were BORN / being NOT YET BORN" was the "WHEN" (of Rom9)]
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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God did not have faith for me,

He brought me to faith in him.

For it is by Grace we have been saved through faith..
Saved by Christ's faith, not ours. His faith alone brought salvation, ours comes from His faith.
Christ's faith is imputed to those whom He has chosen for salvation and given to them when they become born-again.

[Rom 1:17 KJV] 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

john 1: 12, But as many as have recieved him to THEM he gave the right to become children of God.
Look at verse 13. It completes the thought of verse 12.

[Jhn 1:13 KJV] 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 

MerSee

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Jan 13, 2024
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If they believed and trusted God they would be saved.

As for behaving badly. All have sinned and fall short.

Don't puff yourself up as if you are righteous. that would be a grave error
All of the nonelct do go to hell; God hates the nonelect.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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Wrong

9 I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2 that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. 3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my [a]countrymen according to the flesh, 4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Israel’s Rejection and God’s Purpose
6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect.


Its about Israel.
No, not about Israel. Do you see "children" in Romans 9:8; and in 9:16 "him that willeth nor him that runneth"?


[Rom 9:8 KJV]

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[Rom 9:16 KJV]
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
 

MerSee

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Jan 13, 2024
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Matthew 12:31-35
31 Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven. 32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come. 33 Either make the tree good and its fruit good: or make the tree evil, and its fruit evil. For by the fruit the tree is known. 34 O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Nope.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Notice the sequence of events

1. They heard
2. They trusted
3. They were given the HS
By that, it sounds like they saved themselves.

The hearing is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. In order to be able to hear spiritually, one must first be saved and
born-again, from which, they receive spiritual hearing.
 

jamessb

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Feb 10, 2024
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Santa Fe NM
Jesus died to pay the penalty for all the sins committed by everyone. He is the ultimate sacrifice demanded by God. Anyone who desires to be saved must accept that sacrifice done on her/his behalf. No matter how "righteous" a person may be, s/he cannot be saved by their own merits.
 

MerSee

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Jan 13, 2024
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Luke 6:41-45
41 And why seest thou the mote in thy brother's eye: but the beam that is in thy own eye thou considerest not? 42 Or how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother, let me pull the mote out of thy eye, when thou thyself seest not the beam in thy own eye? Hypocrite, cast first the beam out of thy own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to take out the mote from thy brother's eye. 43 For there is no good tree that bringeth forth evil fruit; nor an evil tree that bringeth forth good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by its fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns; nor from a bramble bush do they gather the grape. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth that which is evil. For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.