Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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Mar 14, 2011
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And How did He love us? The Word manifested in the flesh walked in the Word, the Law, the commandments of God. He Loved God with all His heart, mind, and soul and His fellow man the same. On these two depend, hinge, hang all the Law, the commandments, the Love that is of God.
You got the bolded wrong, that is not in scripture

Love does not depend on the law

Obedience to the law depends on how we love

We love because he first loved us Just like jesus loved because the father first loved him.


 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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And How did He love us? The Word manifested in the flesh walked in the Word, the Law, the commandments of God. He Loved God with all His heart, mind, and soul and His fellow man the same. On these two depend, hinge, hang all the Law, the commandments, the Love that is of God.
John 5:16-17
For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working."
 
Mar 14, 2011
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Love fulfills the law

Love does not lie, does not covet, does not use, does not take, Love gives, Love serves, Love is a fruit of the spirit, against such, there is no law.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
So Moses lied

Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Paul lied

Gal 3: 10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

And James lied

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guiltyof all.

Sorry Sir. You are wrong.

The Socinians held to a rationalistic approach to Scripture and to faith. This philosophical approach, especially in regard to biblical doctrine, declares that all religious matters must be fully reconcilable with human reason, and that theological matters pertaining to the nature of God cannot be beyond the finite understanding of the human mind.

1 Corinthians 2
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Typical responses from followers, or worshippers of "baal!"

Whether they know it, or not? Believe it or not? Or, even care.

Nonetheless? It is true!

Matthew 13
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This is what baal, the spirit of anti-christ, and other conspirators DO!

2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
 

Dan_473

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2014
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It depends. Not even all of Israel had to follow all of the written instructions even in "O.T." time. It depended on their individual situations.


The guy went onto to continue the analogy...

----

The doctor (ful)FILLS the written prescription in medicine form but doesn't discard the written prescription, because receiving life-saving medicine without proper instruction will eventually cause the patient to become worse off than when they first receive the live-saving medicine.

----End----

I thought it was a great analogy. To your question; generally speaking, if we take this analogy and extrapolate it. Here's what I see it saying...

Who's the patient? The written tablet has the name of the patient on it. Anyone else it's not promised to doesn't receive the written instructions OR the medicine. And anyone who attempts to take either for themselves - who they weren't promised to - is a thief and a liar (John 10:1).

In our case, the patient is "Israel". Only Israel was promised The Medicine (Matthew 15:26). Anyone who isn't "Israel" is a liar and a thief of the medicine.

This is why Paul says the wild olive branches are GRAFTED INTO the root of Israel (Romans 11:24). There's only one patient given the written prescription and promised of the medicine (Deut 18:18; Romans 11:29). Only Israel was given the Torah and the promise of Christ (Matthew 1:21; Daniel 9:24; John 11:50).

...Then if this is the case, the answer to your question naturally follows the question below...

Was Deuteronomy 22:11's instructions - and other instructions like seafood restrictions, beard shaving rule, etc - given to the patient, "Israel"? The answer is "yes". Is Israel required to obey the instructions? "Yes". Are the instructions useful without Christ? Answer: No more than a prescription without its fulfilled medicine is.


So I think maybe the real question to explore is, are gentile believers actually a separate entity outside of Israel called the "church" as many believe, or are they grafted into the commonwealth of Israel through Christ? Because I think we all agree at least as far as Israel is concerned that they must obey the covenant instructions, depending on their individual situations as it's always been.
When gentile believers today wear wool and linen mixed together or cotton polyester blends, are they following the prescription in your view?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Love fulfills the law

Love does not lie, does not covet, does not use, does not take, Love gives, Love serves, Love is a fruit of the spirit, against such, there is no law.

So? In your opinion, Love abolishes, and renders the remaining fruit of the Spirit, as chopped liver?

Inquiring minds, do so want to know! :)
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,629
16,433
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The Socinians held to a rationalistic approach to Scripture and to faith. This philosophical approach, especially in regard to biblical doctrine, declares that all religious matters must be fully reconcilable with human reason, and that theological matters pertaining to the nature of God cannot be beyond the finite understanding of the human mind.

1 Corinthians 2
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Typical responses from followers, or worshippers of "baal!"

Whether they know it, or not? Believe it or not? Or, even care.

Nonetheless? It is true!

Matthew 13
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This is what baal, the spirit of anti-christ, and other conspirators DO!

2 Thessalonians 2
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
What does do with what I said?
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,629
16,433
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So? In your opinion, Love abolishes, and renders the remaining fruit of the Spirit, as chopped liver?

Inquiring minds, do so want to know! :)
No

In my mind, LOVE fullfills the law, Just like Christ said.

If I love you I will not sin against you, in fact, I will not even CONSIDER sin against you, meanign I will nto even be TEMPTED by sin.

But I know. Thats a foriegn idea to you. You think just because you do not commit some sin, your ok..

Well news flash. Your not. It goes much deeper than this.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
8,722
4,517
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No

In my mind, LOVE fullfills the law, Just like Christ said.

If I love you I will not sin against you, in fact, I will not even CONSIDER sin against you, meanign I will nto even be TEMPTED by sin.

But I know. Thats a foriegn idea to you. You think just because you do not commit some sin, your ok..

Well news flash. Your not. It goes much deeper than this.
if folks would only allow the Holy Sprit to open their minds to what sin really is, then they would understand their desperate need for a Savior.

but, sadly, as long as they minimize what sin truly is, and let their pride, sinful pride that is, rule their minds, they will continue to push self-effort instead of fully trusting Christ.....
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
30,845
10,128
113
It depends. Not even all of Israel had to follow all of the written instructions even in "O.T." time. It depended on their individual situations.


The guy went onto to continue the analogy...

----

The doctor (ful)FILLS the written prescription in medicine form but doesn't discard the written prescription, because receiving life-saving medicine without proper instruction will eventually cause the patient to become worse off than when they first receive the live-saving medicine.

----End----

I thought it was a great analogy. To your question; generally speaking, if we take this analogy and extrapolate it. Here's what I see it saying...

Who's the patient? The written tablet has the name of the patient on it. Anyone else it's not promised to doesn't receive the written instructions OR the medicine. And anyone who attempts to take either for themselves - who they weren't promised to - is a thief and a liar (John 10:1).

In our case, the patient is "Israel". Only Israel was promised The Medicine (Matthew 15:26). Anyone who isn't "Israel" is a liar and a thief of the medicine.

This is why Paul says the wild olive branches are GRAFTED INTO the root of Israel (Romans 11:24). There's only one patient given the written prescription and promised of the medicine (Deut 18:18; Romans 11:29). Only Israel was given the Torah and the promise of Christ (Matthew 1:21; Daniel 9:24; John 11:50).

...Then if this is the case, the answer to your question naturally follows the question below...

Was Deuteronomy 22:11's instructions - and other instructions like seafood restrictions, beard shaving rule, etc - given to the patient, "Israel"? The answer is "yes". Is Israel required to obey the instructions? "Yes". Are the instructions useful without Christ? Answer: No more than a prescription without its fulfilled medicine is.


So I think maybe the real question to explore is, are gentile believers actually a separate entity outside of Israel called the "church" as many believe, or are they grafted into the commonwealth of Israel through Christ? Because I think we all agree at least as far as Israel is concerned that they must obey the covenant instructions, depending on their individual situations as it's always been.
I'm confused.
You insinuated that not all of Israel was required to keep Deuteronomy 22:11, and then you confirmed that yes, they were.
Also confusing is your analogy - doesn't it equate 'having Christ' with 'keeping Moses' Law'? Because you say, having the Law without having Christ is just as useless as having a prescription but not filling it. The inference is that Christ = being under the Law and fully keeping it all. Which would include Deuteronomy 22:11

Can you just give a clear, pragmatic answer: i am a believer of totally gentile descent. Is it sin for me to wear poly/cotton blend clothes? Am i under the Law of Moses?
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
No

In my mind, LOVE fullfills the law, Just like Christ said.

If I love you I will not sin against you, in fact, I will not even CONSIDER sin against you, meanign I will nto even be TEMPTED by sin.

But I know. Thats a foriegn idea to you. You think just because you do not commit some sin, your ok..

Well news flash. Your not. It goes much deeper than this.
On this I agree! It does go much deeper then that!
The part where you are wrong, EG?
Is when things get "deeper" then where you are?
THEY are WRONG!
And, you? In your rebuking of them? Are not!


So then you run around shouting: "SHOW me where "I'm" wrong!"
And, you know as well as I, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus!
But, by, and in your insinuations, and accusations? You condemn those confessed TO the Father!

My advice? STOP!! LISTEN!! Go TO the Father WITH your cross, ON your own self! Cuz, He is calling you!
DON'T grovel! When the Father saz to you, like He did Job! "STAND UP! "Like a MAN!" "And, "I" will question you!"
Granted, EG, They most likely will not be the same questions, God inquired of Job! :p But? There WILL be questions Only YOU will be able to answer.

Then, perhaps, you may find yourself a mite less combative!

Or? Stay in the continuing of your allowing for Jesus to carrying your cross for you. Because He SHALL! Even ALL of your cross! For however LONG IT TAKES! Should this be what you REQUIRE!
 
May 1, 2019
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If you wanted to show what great faith some of the men of YHVH demonstrated, you picked a great book to do it. Almighty was about to punish His people with a nation even more wicked! Hab couldn't understand why...but this is what he said. Just to take time and let these words sink in....very humbling indeed.
Hab 3:
17 Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls:

18 Yet I will rejoice in the Lord, I will joy in the God of my salvation.

19 The Lord God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places. To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.

Lovely isn't it! Many think Grace just exists in the air, a gift to be breathed in, but man MUST acquired/appropriate Grace! And how is Grace acquired? Through Faith! And How is Faith acquired? Through the Words of GOD!

Rom 10:17 KJV So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

So many in an almost arrogant tone blow a horn of personal victory in both understanding and experience as if our walk is not daily, or hourly, even moment to moment sustained by Grace through Faith! This is such a perilous stance. Anyone is subject to falling from grace at an instant especially when a spirit of superiority and arrogance sets in! A life of meaningful fellowship with God through His Holy Spirit which includes personal revelations and witnessing of glorious acts of mercy and restoration builds up our faith. But if anyone then tries to appropriate or take these experiences as a statement of God; "You are one of my Favorites, you have extra liberties" then they are already falling from Grace. We cannot trust in our experiences, we can only trust in God! There's an old saying that came from the times of revival in the UK back in the 1700-1800's that; "everyone needs two conversions: first, from the natural to the supernatural; and second, from the supernatural to the natural." let that one sink in. it makes perfect sense and should humble every one of us!

I don't think that anyone here is saying that the more we study the word of God or the more we pray the more we can appropriate the Grace of God! So for those who assume this shame on you! You are perilously close to discouraging good behaviour and would if it weren't for the fact that many of are knowledgable enough to KNOW that receiving the Grace of God requires Faith which must be fed; and faith cannot be nourished without daily, yes DAILY nourishment from the Word of GOD, and time alone with GOD in prayer every day.

There are without a doubt three things that God does for us:

Salvation
Sanctification
and one day Glorification!

He does all three! completely!

But, When God calls us to Christ for Salvation what is our part?

Repentance

When God through the Holy Spirit walks with us through Sanctification what is our part?

Faith and faith that He is doing it!

But are we to be vigilant, sober knowing that the enemy seeks to destroy us?
Or to be circumspect with relation to Humility knowing God rejects the proud?
This is the top of a ling list!
This list is what was meant by "working out our Salvation with fear and trembling"

When we are brought, by faith to Glorification what is our part?

We must each know this one on our own.
 
May 1, 2019
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if folks would only allow the Holy Sprit to open their minds to what sin really is, then they would understand their desperate need for a Savior.

but, sadly, as long as they minimize what sin truly is, and let their pride, sinful pride that is, rule their minds, they will continue to push self-effort instead of fully trusting Christ.....

1Pe 5:6 KJV Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

THis verse strikes me as saying dont resist the Holy Spirit when he convicts you of sin!
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,111
447
83
So Moses lied

Deuteronomy 27:26
Cursed is the one who does not confirm all the words of this law by observing them.’ “And all the people shall say, ‘Amen!’ ”

Paul lied

Gal 3: 10
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed iseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

And James lied

James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guiltyof all.

Sorry Sir. You are wrong.
Do not add to and do not take away from the words given but CAREFULLY follow. (Deut 4:2; Deut 12:32).

Are you suggesting for instance that the instructions that were specifically for a woman's time and a woman's birth were also required to be followed by men?
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,629
16,433
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On this I agree! It does go much deeper then that!
The part where you are wrong, EG?
Is when things get "deeper" then where you are?
THEY are WRONG!
And, you? In your rebuking of them? Are not!


So then you run around shouting: "SHOW me where "I'm" wrong!"
And, you know as well as I, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus!
But, by, and in your insinuations, and accusations? You condemn those confessed TO the Father!

My advice? STOP!! LISTEN!! Go TO the Father WITH your cross, ON your own self! Cuz, He is calling you!
DON'T grovel! When the Father saz to you, like He did Job! "STAND UP! "Like a MAN!" "And, "I" will question you!"
Granted, EG, They most likely will not be the same questions, God inquired of Job! :p But? There WILL be questions Only YOU will be able to answer.

Then, perhaps, you may find yourself a mite less combative!

Or? Stay in the continuing of your allowing for Jesus to carrying your cross for you. Because He SHALL! Even ALL of your cross! For however LONG IT TAKES! Should this be what you REQUIRE!
Dude go away, I am sick of your nonsense. Just please go away. Better yet. I will send you away, Good day sir.
 
May 1, 2019
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Incorrect, sir.

The instructions say to "be CAREFUL to obey..." Israel must be careful in what was specifically instructed.

The certain situations where the instruction to celebrate at Jerusalem 3 times per year didn't apply to an Israelite included:

- If they were a woman
- If they were sick or lame
- If the trip was too far away and they couldn't make it

...those who met these situations were not cursed and not guilty of sin. Would be pretty unfair if they were.


Here's another. There are instructions not to work on the Sabbath, given to all Israel. But was this for everyone in Israel? No, this wasn't for the priests and Levite servants who worked in the temple. Were they cursed? No. If a neighbor's ox falls in a ditch on the Sabbath, will helping him curse you before the cross? No.

Here's another. Families were specifically instructed to sacrifice a bull or ram. But if one's financial situation was such that they couldn't afford to give those animals, then they were allowed to bring a lesser animal to sacrifice.

And another. the tithing instruction specifically requires to take the 10th of one's increase (animals, crops) and go to Jerusalem and use it to celebrate, eating all of it oneself in the presence of Yah. But if one's situation was that it was too much to haul they were allowed to change it into money instead, and when they reached Jerusalem to buy whatever food, wine, etc. that their heart's content and then celebrate with it.

-----

There has always been mercy baked into the instructions that were given to Israel. It always depended on the situation of each Israelite which instructions applied and which didn't. Those that applied to your situation you were expected to follow.

The same God that gave the instructions at Mt. Sinai is the same meek one who gave his life and died on the cross; the same one who made the entire world. He's the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Greetings Y,

Good points!
Rightly divide
Berean methodology

Isn't it amazing how the more we dig the more we find?!
 
Mar 14, 2011
73,629
16,433
113
Do not add to and do not take away from the words given but CAREFULLY follow. (Deut 4:2; Deut 12:32).

Are you suggesting for instance that the instructions that were specifically for a woman's time and a woman's birth were also required to be followed by men?
You will never understand. There is no need to try to explain it to you.

Who said they were required to be followed by men? thats not the case.

The case is, YOU HAVE FAILED TO KEEP THE LAW. (If it is something that does not pertain to you, then you can not follow it can you? It will not be held against you then will it?)

It does not mean you obeyed the law because you are exempt from that one command, You still have the other commands that God gave moses that MOSES made them take an oath to OBEY EVERY LETTER! And as Paul said, You must obey ever letter. And as james said, You mess up 1 time on 1 command, your cursed. Guilty of the whole law.


 
Mar 14, 2011
73,629
16,433
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Greetings Y,

Good points!
Rightly divide
Berean methodology

Isn't it amazing how the more we dig the more we find?!
Rightly divide

Was moses wrong when he said obey every letter? Was paul wrong? How about James?


You say we must rightly divide, why do you not rightly divide what they said was the REQUIREMENT?