Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
We can be under the law AND no longer under the curse.
When the "schoolmaster" is finished, you now have the knowledge. When you leave the schoolmaster, you take the knowledge with you.
The food we seek is the love and the wisdom and the knowledge of God. Lots of it found in the Law.
"They will be raised" IF and that is a huge IF that no one likes to really talk about. Many are called, Many are going to hear "I never knew you". Why? because we are not giving the whole story. What are our "MIlk" messages? How often do you see a discussion past them? If you are preaching salvation to someone who has heard and accepted it, you are wasting everyone's time. There are "meat" issues "hard to be...."
I never said it is "through" our actions that we get into Heaven. Though faith without works is dead. We are to trust that Christ did it perfect. Not so we can take "less" upon ourselves, but that we can take more because HE did it ALL, and did it perfect, not only FOR US, but as an example for us showing us how we are to get it done. If we are to be Priests and reign for 1000 yrs, we best learn discipline NOW. He is counting on us "to do", not to get into heaven, but "To do" so He will know He can count on us to do the things He will need us to do for Him. Not needing to be taught again and again (I'll go look it up) but moving on to the meat.
This is not what Paul says,


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

In fact Paul goes on to say if you want to follow one aspect of the law. Your indebted to follow the whole law

In this case, the example was circumcision..

Gal 5: And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is [b]a debtor to keep the whole law.

But would this not apply to all the law?

And James, does he not say (to christians) if you keep the whole law. Yet fall in one point, are you not guilty of the whole law?


James 2:10
For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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We are to teach and baptize, plant seeds, but not to LOVE everyone. Our brethren? Absolutely. Those who hate God? No.
Matthew
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Matthew
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Thanks, I missed that one!!
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Does the law say to him who knows to do right yet does not do it is a sin?

James 4:17
Therefore, to him who knows to do right and does not do it, to him it is sin

Did the law tell you if you even looked at a woman, You were guilty of sexual sin?

Matt 5: 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Why did Jesus have to correct people. Saying the law says this, But I tell you that. Is it not because the law was not a complete list of sins or contain all that can be classified as sin?

If the speed limit is 55 MPH, and you drive 70 MPH (for whatever reason) Is it not a sin, and does the law tell you of this sin?

I can give many examples of many sins which are not included, or even hinted at in the law.

why is why it is dangerous to look to the law to see how righteous you are. Because like the pharisees, You can obey the letter of the law. And even be blameless according to the law. Yet still be sinners.. in need of hope. And salvation, and (for those saved) maturity which can not be found in the law.
Does the law say to him who knows to do right yet does not do it is a sin?

James 4:17
Therefore, to him who knows to do right and does not do it, to him it is sin

Did the law tell you if you even looked at a woman, You were guilty of sexual sin?

Matt 5: 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Why did Jesus have to correct people. Saying the law says this, But I tell you that. Is it not because the law was not a complete list of sins or contain all that can be classified as sin?

If the speed limit is 55 MPH, and you drive 70 MPH (for whatever reason) Is it not a sin, and does the law tell you of this sin?

I can give many examples of many sins which are not included, or even hinted at in the law.

why is why it is dangerous to look to the law to see how righteous you are. Because like the pharisees, You can obey the letter of the law. And even be blameless according to the law. Yet still be sinners.. in need of hope. And salvation, and (for those saved) maturity which can not be found in the law.
The post asked the question "
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
This is my first post here. PLEASE let me know what rules I have broken and how to fix them so I can find my way with the least amount of trouble. Thank you
You are doing great!

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are doing great!

Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.
Amen, We all have learned by discussing with others.. Even if we find out we are wrong, it is still sharpening us to the truth.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses? I am trying to stay on point. Also, I am still way back like 5 posts, it may seem I am getting lost, but I am just slow.
So Romans 6:14 for me is an example of where confusion comes about through translation from the Greek where it reads "Sin for you not will rule over, not for you are under law, but under grace" As I read it, it DOESN"T say " we are not under the law", but it says "Sin doesn't rule over me (NOT because I am under the law) but because I am under grace" Tthe law is written upon my heart, I have no choice but to be under it, but Sin not having RULE OVER ME is because of the Grace of Jesus.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Does the law say to him who knows to do right yet does not do it is a sin?

James 4:17
Therefore, to him who knows to do right and does not do it, to him it is sin

Did the law tell you if you even looked at a woman, You were guilty of sexual sin?

Matt 5: 27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Why did Jesus have to correct people. Saying the law says this, But I tell you that. Is it not because the law was not a complete list of sins or contain all that can be classified as sin?

If the speed limit is 55 MPH, and you drive 70 MPH (for whatever reason) Is it not a sin, and does the law tell you of this sin?

I can give many examples of many sins which are not included, or even hinted at in the law.

why is why it is dangerous to look to the law to see how righteous you are. Because like the pharisees, You can obey the letter of the law. And even be blameless according to the law. Yet still be sinners.. in need of hope. And salvation, and (for those saved) maturity which can not be found in the law.
I agree, you should not look to it to see how righteous you are.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Matthew
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
Those who hate God, not me.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses? I am trying to stay on point. Also, I am still way back like 5 posts, it may seem I am getting lost, but I am just slow.
So Romans 6:14 for me is an example of where confusion comes about through translation from the Greek where it reads "Sin for you not will rule over, not for you are under law, but under grace" As I read it, it DOESN"T say " we are not under the law", but it says "Sin doesn't rule over me (NOT because I am under the law) but because I am under grace" Tthe law is written upon my heart, I have no choice but to be under it, but Sin not having RULE OVER ME is because of the Grace of Jesus.
It is a thought that is found in the NT

When you are under law. Sin rules over you, Because you bound to obey it as required by God (according to moses and paul. The demand was perfection) and since you are bound to that standard, And can not keep it You are forever ruled by the thought of guilt and shame and in an every moment fight to keep that which is unkeepable

Being freed from the law frees you from the power of sin, Because instead of focusing on does and don’t and how well you are doing, You are freed to serve and love others. (Seek after things of the spirit) And in doing so, by practice not break the law. But at the same time, knowing when you do, you are not bound by the curse it brings.


 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
I am trying to stay on point. Also, I am still way back like 5 posts, it may seem I am getting lost, but I am just slow.
It is easy to fall back 5 pages. Happens to me quite often. Persevere!
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
I do know that to teach a brand new Christ person that "there is no law and just grace, and once saved always saved", just leaves them without any knowledge of what Gods Plan is all about. Jesus said Himself " Not a jot or a tittle" (past what He fulfilled) I flat out believe that to be true. I do not go looking for ways to get out from under them, I embrace them, whether I have to or not. It has nothing to do with "getting into heaven" but loving God and all He stands for. I do not find them to be a burden. I am talking of Gods Laws, not mans.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses? I am trying to stay on point. Also, I am still way back like 5 posts, it may seem I am getting lost, but I am just slow.
So Romans 6:14 for me is an example of where confusion comes about through translation from the Greek where it reads "Sin for you not will rule over, not for you are under law, but under grace" As I read it, it DOESN"T say " we are not under the law", but it says "Sin doesn't rule over me (NOT because I am under the law) but because I am under grace" Tthe law is written upon my heart, I have no choice but to be under it, but Sin not having RULE OVER ME is because of the Grace of Jesus.
It is built on Romans 5. Romans 5 is foundational.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
It is a thought that is found in the NT

When you are under law. Sin rules over you, Because you bound to obey it as required by God (according to moses and paul. The demand was perfection) and since you are bound to that standard, And can not keep it You are forever ruled by the thought of guilt and shame and in an every moment fight to keep that which is unkeepable

Being freed from the law frees you from the power of sin, Because instead of focusing on does and don’t and how well you are doing, You are freed to serve and love others. (Seek after things of the spirit) And in doing so, by practice not break the law. But at the same time, knowing when you do, you are not bound by the curse it brings.
How could the law be done away with if it went from being written in stone to upon your heart? Following the law does not get us into heaven, that is by grace. How do you get out from under it when it is written upon your heart? When you die to the flesh, and live to the Spirit, sin does not rule over you, but the law does not disappear. The demand was perfection under Moses, not Paul. We are to strive towards perfection. How can that be done without knowing what that consists of?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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Romans 7:1-4 says (to those who know the Law), "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also have been put to death to the law by means of the body of Christ, to be joined to Another, even to the One having been raised out from the dead, so that we should bear fruit unto God."

As for 1 John 3:4, for your consideration, I present the following quote by Gaebelein in his commentary on 1 John 2-3 :

[quoting]

"1John 3:4-9.
"He makes a contrast between sin and the new nature and shows the marks of one who abides in Christ and one who hath not seen Him neither knows Him. “Every one that practiseth sin, practiseth lawlessness; for sin is lawlessness," this is the correct rendering. The definition of sin as “transgression of the law” is misleading and incorrect. Before there ever was a law, sin was in the world (Romans 5:12, etc.); how then can sin be the transgression of the law? It is not sins of which John speaks, but sin, the evil nature of man. Here the apostle regards man as doing nothing else but his own, natural will; he lives as a natural man. He acts independently of God, and, as far as he is concerned, never does anything but his own will. John is, therefore, not speaking of positive overt acts, but of the natural man’s habitual bent and character, his life and nature.

"The sinner, then, sins, and in this merely shows in it his state and the moral root of his nature as a sinner, which is lawlessness. But the born one, the child of God, is in a different position. He knows that Christ was manifested to take away our sins and that in Him there was no sin. If one knows Him and abideth in Him, that one sinneth not. If the believer sins it is because he has lost sight of Christ and does not act in the new life imparted unto him. Another object usurps the place of Christ, and then acting in self-will he is readily exposed to the wiles of the devil using his old nature and the world to lead him astray. If a man lives habitually in sin, according to his old nature, he hath not seen Him nor known Him. A child of God may sin but he is no longer living in sin; if a professing believer lives constantly in sin it is the evidence that he has not known Him at all. There were such who tried to deceive them. Their teaching was evidently a denial of holiness, that there was no need of righteousness. But the demand is for righteousness, while those who practise sin, live habitually in it, are of the devil. No true believer lives thus, for he knows the One whose life he possesses was manifested that He might destroy the works of the devil.

"“Whosoever is begotten of God doth not practise sin, because his seed abideth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God.” This verse has puzzled many Christians, but it is quite simple. Every creature lives according to its nature. The fish has the nature of a fish and lives its nature in the water; a bird has its own nature and lives it in the air, and not under the water as the fish. Our Lord said to Nicodemus, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh.” Man has a fallen nature, the nature of sin, and that nature can do nothing but sin. That is why He said, “Ye must be born again.” In the new birth the divine nature is imparted. This nature is He Himself, Christ, the eternal life. Christ could not sin for He is God, and God cannot sin. The new nature believers possess cannot sin, for it is His nature. But why do new-born ones sin? Because the Christian has two natures, the old nature and the new nature. The old nature is not eradicated; a believer when he sins does so because he has given way to that old nature, has acted in the flesh. But the new nature followed will never lead to sin, for it is a holy nature, and for that nature it is impossible to sin. Some have suggested out of ignorance that the translation ought to be instead of cannot sin “ought not to sin,” or “should not sin.” The Greek text does not permit such a translation, anything different from “cannot sin” is an unscriptural paraphrase."

--Gaebelein, Commentary on 1 John 2-3, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_john/2.htm

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
How could the law be done away with if it went from being written in stone to upon your heart? Following the law does not get us into heaven, that is by grace. How do you get out from under it when it is written upon your heart? When you die to the flesh, and live to the Spirit, sin does not rule over you, but the law does not disappear. The demand was perfection under Moses, not Paul. We are to strive towards perfection. How can that be done without knowing what that consists of?
Both the Law and the Holy Spirit's conviction show us when we have done wrong. We do not immediately lose salvation, but I believe we need to repent. I PERSONALLY believe that if we let it go to long, then pride can take root and destroy us. God has not forsaken them, but they have forsaken Him. We need to abide in the vine. If we love Him, we will serve Him. If we love him, we will repent whenever we do wrong. We repent out of love, not out of fear or obligation.
 

DeighAnn

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
Jun 11, 2019
2,436
760
113
Both the Law and the Holy Spirit's conviction show us when we have done wrong. We do not immediately lose salvation, but I believe we need to repent. I PERSONALLY believe that if we let it go to long, then pride can take root and destroy us. God has not forsaken them, but they have forsaken Him. We need to abide in the vine. If we love Him, we will serve Him. If we love him, we will repent whenever we do wrong. We repent out of love, not out of fear or obligation.
If for no other reason than to be able to be forgiven upon repentance, and to speak straight to God, I thank God for putting me in the flesh AFTER Jesus and that awesome gift of His to us all. I can't even imagine having lived an entire life without those. Glory be to God.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
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Also, see...

1 Timothy 1:3-11 [blb] -

3 Just as I urged you to remain in Ephesus when I was going to Macedonia, so that you might warn certain men not to teach other doctrines, 4 nor to give heed to myths and endless genealogies, which bring speculations rather than God’s stewardship [/administration - oikonomian ], which is in faith.
5 Now the goal of our instruction is love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and a sincere faith, 6 from which some, having missed the mark, have turned aside to meaningless discourse, 7 desiring to be teachers of the Law [/law-teachers], understanding neither what they are saying nor that about which they confidently assert.
8 Now we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this, that law is not enacted for a righteous one, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for slayers of man, 10 for the sexually immoral, homosexuals, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and if anything other is opposed to being sound in the teaching, 11 according to the gospel of the glory of the blessed God, with which I [Paul] have been entrusted.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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^ and to that point, a quote by Gaebelein from his commentary on 1 Timothy 1 (vv.5-11):

[quoting]

"1Timothy 1:5-11
"When the apostle used the word “commandment” he does not mean the Ten Commandments. It is the charge the apostle is putting upon his son and fellow-laborer Timothy. What he enjoins is, love out of a pure heart, and a good conscience, and unfeigned faith. And this is produced not by the law, nor by human imaginations and questionings, but solely by the gospel of grace. Speculative questions or anything else do not act upon the conscience nor bring into the presence of God. An unfeigned faith in Christ clears the conscience from guilt and produces love out of a pure heart. Some had swerved from this, by turning aside from the dispensation of the grace of God unto the vain talk about the law, fables and genealogies. They gave heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men (Titus 1:14) and were consequently turned from the truth of the gospel. They aimed at being law-teachers, but they did not understand what they said and what they so strenuously affirmed. They were evidently the same Judaizers, ever insisting upon law-keeping and its ordinances, the false teachers who perverted the gospel, who continually dogged the steps of the apostle and tried to injure the work he was doing.

"Then follows a parenthetical statement on the use and purpose of the law. The law is good (Romans 7:12) if a man uses it lawfully. Its lawful application is to the lawless and disobedient, to the ungodly and sinners, who are condemned by the law. It has no application to a righteous person. A believer with unfeigned faith and love out of a pure heart and a good conscience is righteous, and has nothing to do with the law. In possession of the righteousness which is apart from the law, having the righteousness of God in Christ, the law has no power over the believer. He is dead to the law; the law can have no possible meaning or use for him. The law was never designed to be the rule for the life of the Christian. He is saved by grace, and that alone can produce godliness. It is grace which teaches to live soberly, righteously and godly in this present age, and also gives the power for it."

--Gaebelein, Commentary on 1 Timothy 1, https://biblehub.com/commentaries/gaebelein/1_timothy/1.htm

[end quoting]