Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
4,407
547
113
One has to trust their rescuer in order to surrender to him. John 14:1-7 instilled the trust I needed, and the peace of God has been upon me ever since. To God be the glory.
Trust is better. I was thinking of the rebellious Jews who refuse to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. My thoughts were that first we need to present our bodies a living sacrifice to Him (surrender) and then after that to put our trust in Him. :)
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,975
447
83
53
HBG. Pa. USA
lightbearer said:
No it is a conditional clause. The word "if" signifies this and The writer of Hebrews includes himself in admonition. There is no way around that. Besides that the word "for" is used to start the sentence. This means that what follows it is being stated to assign a reason to what was previously stated. Which is an exhortation which the writer also includes himself......



Then do not throw away your confidence (Faith), which has great reward. For you have need of patience, that having done the will of God you may obtain the promise. For, yet a very little while, and the One coming will come, "and will not delay. But the just (the righteous) shall live by faith (confidence)and if he draws back," "My soul is not pleased in him. But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.
(Heb 10:35-39)

you forgot the words (BUT WE)
Actually that is covered. several times actually. The post states.
We are to be exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. There is no reason for an admonition after the exhortation if it were not possible for the "we"(the writer included) to suffer judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries if they should be sinning willfully.

And continues to say.
The writer of Hebrews states that if they sin willfully there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. If there is no more sacrifice for sins the "we" which includes the writer are not covered by the sacrifice of Christ and are not saved. And the "we" mentioned have a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

And then in closing.
He continues to tell The ones to whom have been illuminated to not cast away their confidence (their Faith) which have great recompense of reward. That better enduring substance in Heaven. He tells them that He that shall come will come don't lose hope. He reminds them the Just (the righteous) shall live by Faith but he warns them not to draw back to destruction. And then closes telling them so they do not lose hope that they are not those who sin willfully after receiving the knowledge the truth. that they have not thrown away their confidence, their faith but believe as he to the saving of the soul.
Then do not throw away your confidence (Faith), which has great reward. For you have need of patience, that having done the will of God you may obtain the promise. For, yet a very little while, and the One coming will come, "and will not delay. But the just (the righteous) shall live by Faith (confidence)and if he draws back," "My soul is not pleased in him. But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.

Let's continue shall we.

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured
a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:30-39 KJV)


The writer admonishes, "The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." But then exhorts those to whom He is admonishing so they do not lose hope. He says "But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured" He tells them not to cast away their confidence (faith) for they have need of patience (joyful constancy), that after they done the will of God (not sinned willfully) they might receive the promise. And then they are reminded that the Just live out of Faith but if the just one draws back from faith God will not be pleased with him.

So how does one draw back from being Just (righteous) out of Faith if they are not just (righteous) out of Faith
in the first place. How does one cast away their confidence, their Faith if they are not experiencing it to begin with. How can one be illuminated and enduring a great flight of afflictions if they are not Righteous out of Faith, believing to the saving of the soul.



you also forget not everyone who was going to the churches where pauls letters were read were saved. He is the ones he is directing his writting to. Because THEY ARE the ones who are at danger of falling away, If they do not become [art of the WE who do not fall away. by being born again by Gods spirit. and laying the foundation for which their house is built. which will never crumple no matter what kind of storm they encounter.
If they are not saved what are they falling away from?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
4,407
547
113
We are hearing a lot about the law, the legalists battle ground, even from Christians, but not much of the Gospel that replaces the law.
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,975
447
83
53
HBG. Pa. USA
i agree; it is funny how they like to quote, 'not one jot or tittle shall pass away' -- and then remove more than half of the jots and tittles themselves.

that's not necessarily 'funny' in a humorous way. in fact it's honestly depressing.
Context shows that you are mistaken.
Speaking of depressing, is it not funny in a depressing way how much time is spent here talking about one another rather than sharing scripture and our thoughts on them?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
4,407
547
113
Context shows that you are mistaken.
Speaking of depressing, is it not funny in a depressing way how much time is spent here talking about one another rather than sharing scripture and our thoughts on them?
What is depressing to the Christian who is saved by grace, is all this talk of the law that cannot save. The thought of all those lost souls is extremely depressing.
 
Mar 14, 2011
63,935
10,291
113
Actually that is covered. several times actually. The post states.
We are to be exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. There is no reason for an admonition after the exhortation if it were not possible for the "we"(the writer included) to suffer judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries if they should be sinning willfully.

And continues to say.
The writer of Hebrews states that if they sin willfully there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. If there is no more sacrifice for sins the "we" which includes the writer are not covered by the sacrifice of Christ and are not saved. And the "we" mentioned have a fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

And then in closing.
He continues to tell The ones to whom have been illuminated to not cast away their confidence (their Faith) which have great recompense of reward. That better enduring substance in Heaven. He tells them that He that shall come will come don't lose hope. He reminds them the Just (the righteous) shall live by Faith but he warns them not to draw back to destruction. And then closes telling them so they do not lose hope that they are not those who sin willfully after receiving the knowledge the truth. that they have not thrown away their confidence, their faith but believe as he to the saving of the soul.
Then do not throw away your confidence (Faith), which has great reward. For you have need of patience, that having done the will of God you may obtain the promise. For, yet a very little while, and the One coming will come, "and will not delay. But the just (the righteous) shall live by Faith (confidence)and if he draws back," "My soul is not pleased in him. But we are not of those withdrawing to destruction, but of faith, to the preservation of the soul.

Let's continue shall we.

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured
a great fight of afflictions; Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
(Heb 10:30-39 KJV)


The writer admonishes, "The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." But then exhorts those to whom He is admonishing so they do not lose hope. He says "But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured" He tells them not to cast away their confidence (faith) for they have need of patience (joyful constancy), that after they done the will of God (not sinned willfully) they might receive the promise. And then they are reminded that the Just live out of Faith but if the just one draws back from faith God will not be pleased with him.

So how does one draw back from being Just (righteous) out of Faith if they are not just (righteous) out of Faith
in the first place. How does one cast away their confidence, their Faith if they are not experiencing it to begin with. How can one be illuminated and enduring a great flight of afflictions if they are not Righteous out of Faith, believing to the saving of the soul.



If they are not saved what are they falling away from?
Continue to try to earn your salvation.

In the end. Christ will be the one to show you how you utterly failed. And how you mocked his death by thinking you could do it yourself.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
18,301
5,903
113
53
you forgot the words (BUT WE)
Amen! Hebrews 10:39 - But "we" are not of those who draw back to perdition, but "of those" who believe to the saving of the soul. :) Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

If someone is among genuine believers and has received the knowledge of the truth (Hebrews 10:26) and is still in the process of considering and accepting the truth, but then decides to draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul, then such a person is falling away from the truth they received (even though there was no heart submission to the truth). It's not hard to find unbelievers mixed in with believers. Hebrews 4:2 - For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest..

You can't turn away from the truth if you have not yet heard or had the chance to consider the truth, but that does not mean you have to fully accept it before you can turn away from it. Rejecting it after considering it is still turning away from it. If I decide to walk across the Brooklyn bridge and I walk right up to the bridge and am on the verge of stepping onto it, but then turn and walk away from it, does that mean I didn't turn away and depart from the bridge just because I wasn't actually on the bridge? Of course not.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
1,281
1,479
113
Amen! Hebrews 10:39 - But "we" are not of those who draw back to perdition, but "of those" who believe to the saving of the soul. :) Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

If someone is among genuine believers and has received the knowledge of the truth (Hebrews 10:26) and is still in the process of considering and accepting the truth, but then decides to draw back to perdition instead of believing to the saving of the soul, then such a person is falling away from the truth they received (even though there was no heart submission to the truth). It's not hard to find unbelievers mixed in with believers. Hebrews 4:2 - For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest..

You can't turn away from the truth if you have not yet heard or had the chance to consider the truth, but that does not mean you have to fully accept it before you can turn away from it. Rejecting it after considering it is still turning away from it. If I decide to walk across the Brooklyn bridge and I walk right up to the bridge and am on the verge of stepping onto it, but then turn and walk away from it, does that mean I didn't turn away and depart from the bridge just because I wasn't actually on the bridge? Of course not.
It’s sad that the ones who turn to their own works of perdition, refer to those who lean solely on Jesus and his saving grace as tares. The workers are so far removed from the truth that I fear for them.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
1,982
704
113
What is depressing to the Christian who is saved by grace, is all this talk of the law that cannot save. The thought of all those lost souls is extremely depressing.
Don't you believe in OSAS?
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
1,982
704
113
Here is what I really don't get. The people who believe that If you are saved by faith you go to heaven, BUT If you are saved by faith AND you have the audacity to ALSO follow or abide in the law of the kingdom, those people don't get to go to heaven because they ADDED to that faith, abiding in the law of love (the law that the law of Moses and the prophets hang on)

I just don't get it. That is also like saying YOU have one choice, faith or law????

What did it say about Israel and the Law of Moses (the DEAD ONE, THE DECEASED HUSBAND)

EVEN if they would have put faith with THAT law of sin and death, THEN THAT LAW WOULD HAVE WORKED.

SO WE COME TO TODAY, 2000 YRS LATER AND NOW SOME PEOPLE WONT ALLOW THE LAW TO ACCOMPANY FAITH.

CAN YOU IMAGIE BEING GOD, and NOW THAT THE FAITH is here THERE ARE SOME NOW rejecting the NEW LAW WITH FAITH. THE ONE THAT CAME WITH THE LORDS SACRIFICE.

IT WOULD SEEM SOMEONE DOESN'T WANT GOD TO HAVE IT ALL AT ONE TIME, DOES IT? i WONDER WHO THAT IS?
 

lightbearer

Senior Member
Jun 17, 2017
1,975
447
83
53
HBG. Pa. USA
nce again a poster not doing anything other than talking about posters.
What is depressing to the Christian who is saved by grace, is all this talk of the law that cannot save. The thought of all those lost souls is extremely depressing.
Amen!
 

wokinluv

Active member
Aug 17, 2019
219
160
43
Once again bro

You are not understanding me, I am not using the word servant as you are trying to use it.. So your context does not fit my point.

I am not saying we should not serve God. So please do not put words in my mouth.
Luke 17:7-10
“Suppose one of you had a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Would he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? Would he not rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

It is the servants duty to obey His master.

The master would naturally expect to be served by His servant.

I can only offer my services to God. He decides whether to accept or reject my offer because He is the great provider.

Did God choose me to be His servant so that He can serve me or created me for the same reason?

Obeying the law and commandments of God is the whole duty of man.

Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

If anyone would think or say that it is impossible to obey His commandments...think again.

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

God is doing His work in us...with us. (1 Corinthians 12:6, Philippians 2:13, 1 Corinthians 3:9, 2Corinthians 6:1) but it is not His duty and nature to serve us because He is the Lord and He is God.

...if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.... 1 Corinthians 13:1-3

You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
Galatians 5:13-15

Glory be to God.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
1,281
1,479
113
Abiders in the law don’t abide perfectly thus the abiding is moot. Exhibit A is the lack of love displayed all too often from law abiders throughout various posts.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
4,407
547
113
Here is what I really don't get. The people who believe that If you are saved by faith you go to heaven, BUT If you are saved by faith AND you have the audacity to ALSO follow or abide in the law of the kingdom, those people don't get to go to heaven because they ADDED to that faith, abiding in the law of love (the law that the law of Moses and the prophets hang on)

I just don't get it. That is also like saying YOU have one choice, faith or law????

What did it say about Israel and the Law of Moses (the DEAD ONE, THE DECEASED HUSBAND)

EVEN if they would have put faith with THAT law of sin and death, THEN THAT LAW WOULD HAVE WORKED.

SO WE COME TO TODAY, 2000 YRS LATER AND NOW SOME PEOPLE WONT ALLOW THE LAW TO ACCOMPANY FAITH.

CAN YOU IMAGIE BEING GOD, and NOW THAT THE FAITH is here THERE ARE SOME NOW rejecting the NEW LAW WITH FAITH. THE ONE THAT CAME WITH THE LORDS SACRIFICE.

IT WOULD SEEM SOMEONE DOESN'T WANT GOD TO HAVE IT ALL AT ONE TIME, DOES IT? i WONDER WHO THAT IS?
We do only have 1 choice. Basically the law is only a book. This is why I think you have a foot in both camps and Jesus said no man can serve two masters. You need to nail your colours to the mast.
 
May 1, 2019
1,336
743
113
nce again a poster not doing anything other than talking about posters.

Amen!
Right there with you too;

Rev 3:17 KJV Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Blind and Naked.

"Blind" - refers to "Mental Blindness"

"Naked"- refers to being; Not clothed with Righteousness
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
1,982
704
113
We do only have 1 choice. Basically the law is only a book. This is why I think you have a foot in both camps and Jesus said no man can serve two masters. You need to nail your colours to the mast.
How is it you presume to know my beliefts? You presuppose incorrectly then you state them incorrectly and then want me to defend something you made up. Then you take a quote from a completely different subject, throw it in here and act like it is truth, and all that is coming across is your ignorance of the Word.
 

DeighAnn

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2019
1,982
704
113
Abiders in the law don’t abide perfectly thus the abiding is moot. Exhibit A is the lack of love displayed all too often from law abiders throughout various posts.
Except for the extremely Huge Fact that by the blood of Jesus we are washed clean of all sin. Can you now see how that doesn't fly?