Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[FollowtheShepherd]

(btw, I'm fully agreeing with your reply to Grandpa, and his response to you.)

Responses like this are fairly "typical", from "stuck in the mud" believers. No offense to the Lamb of God.
They become "stuck" to the "Oneness" of the Father which is in Christ. Yet, somehow, don't feel a/the need/duty/responsibility/obligation, of going onwards, as they are confessed to the Father by Christ, to the "Oneness" of "He who sent Christ!"
Which, rather puts the whole "plan of salvation", into a much more "clearer" perspective!

I hear you and honestly I was similar becasue I accepted whatever I was taught before, but after having read for myself I believe the holy Spirit used verses like this to wake me up!

Acts 3:22-23, " 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

Luke 6:46-49, " 46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you? 47 Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: 48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. 49 But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great.”

have a blessed day NayborBear!

Psalms 47:1-9, " 1 Clap your hands, all peoples! Shout to God with loud songs of joy! 2 For the LORD, the Most High, is to be feared, a great king over all the earth. 3 He subdued peoples under us, and nations under our feet. 4 He chose our heritage for us, the pride of Jacob whom he loves. — Selah 5 God has gone up with a shout, the LORD with the sound of a trumpet. 6 Sing praises to God, sing praises! Sing praises to our King, sing praises! 7 For God is the King of all the earth; sing praises with a psalm! 8 God reigns over the nations; God sits on his holy throne. 9 The princes of the peoples gather as the people of the God of Abraham. For the shields of the earth belong to God; he is highly exalted!

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Now you've finally asked a question that should help you.

What is the law that the Lord will write on their hearts and minds?

Is it the Ministration of Death and Condemnation that God writes there?

Or is it the Ministration of Righteousness and Life?


See 2 Corinthians 3:5-9

How is it that legalists don't even understand their own bibles but attempt to teach Christians the law????

Psalms 119:151-152, " 151 But you are near, O LORD, and all your commandments are true. 152 Long have I known from your testimonies that you have founded them forever.

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Matthew 22:36-40, " 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

John 7:16-17, " 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

 

[Grandpa]

Psalms 119:151-152, " 151 But you are near, O LORD, and all your commandments are true. 152 Long have I known from your testimonies that you have founded them forever.

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Matthew 22:36-40, " 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

John 7:16-17, " 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

2 Corinthians 3:5-9
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


You managed to not answer any of those EASY questions.

Is it TOO clear and you don't want to appear foolish? Or do you still not understand?

I don't know why Legalists are so scared of Christianity. If they REALLY wanted to keep the law and follow Christ they would learn what Christianity is.

I do understand why Judaizers don't like Christianity. I suppose they need to conceal what they actually are in order to attempt to pull Christians away from their steadfastness in Christ.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


These are really easy scriptures. I don't know why legalists have such a hard time with them. But I HAVE noticed they seem to twist the same easy scriptures in the same kind of way. Attempting to turn a persons attention from the obvious point towards some obscure point about legalism. It would be strange if I hadn't seen it over and over and over again.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, you did not say it leads us to Christ then we toss it out. I did post that becsue many people use that verses to say the law is gone and not to be followed. Again I have to say the law is to be followed using Jesus example, His walk, His way, His love, that is the true way to do obedience to God. Where the pharisees were the example of what NOT to do!

Yes, but sadly to many in here use this against me and others, and it is not true

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don;t think anyone tries to "obey the law through the flesh"

The "flesh" is in oppisition to the law, Jer, Ez and Heb say the spirit makes people have the law in their heart and mind. So anyone who truly loves (heart) and meditates on (mind) wouls be led by the spirit. Key word there TRULY, im not talking about people trying to loop hole out of it or twist it, that is the flesh.

Are you of the view that reading the law and reading how Jesus followed the law and thinking wow I want to do that! is "the flesh" Or what is your view?

What i mean by the flesh is our own power

And people do it all the time that is how Israel did it, and as we see they failed, yet thought they did not fail

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Now you've finally asked a question that should help you.

What is the law that the Lord will write on their hearts and minds?

Is it the Ministration of Death and Condemnation that God writes there?

Or is it the Ministration of Righteousness and Life?


See 2 Corinthians 3:5-9

How is it that legalists don't even understand their own bibles but attempt to teach Christians the law????

Check Mate!

 

[DeighAnn]

Now you've finally asked a question that should help you.

What is the law that the Lord will write on their hearts and minds?
The Divine Law of God

Is it the Ministration of Death and Condemnation that God writes there?

Why was it the Ministration of Death and Condemnation? Because it was not sought out through faith. Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the word of God. And what does the Word of God contain? Laws. Glorious laws. And when you have accepted Christ as your Lord and Saviour, He fulfills the law, in that what the law was lacking FORGIVENESS, LIFE, REDEMPTION, SALVATION, ETC. JESUS GAVE TO IT. YET, THAT LAW, THE LAW OF MOSES, HAD ALREADY BEEN SET TO EXPIRE. IT HAD TO EXPIRE BECAUSE THE WORK OF JESUS WOULD ABSOLUTELY RENDER PARTS OF IT NO LONGER NECESSARY. SUCH AS ANIMAL SACRIFICE, ALL THE DUTIES THE PRIESTS PERFORMED AND THE PEOPLES REQUIREMENTS THAT WENT ALONG WITH THEM, A PRIEST TO TALK TO GOD, ETC.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe
AND WHAT IS GIVEN TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE ? REPENTANCE WITHOUT HAVING TO SACRIFICE AN ANIMAL, FORGIVENESS OF THE SIN REPENTED OF, LIFE, NO LONGER DEATH EVEN WHILE WE ARE YET SINNERS, JUSTIFICATION BEFORE GOD, RIGHTEOUSNESS EVEN WHEN WE ARE NOT PERFECT . HIS YOKE IS LIGHT. HE FREES US FROM THE BONDAGE TO SIN AND DEATH, LIFTS THE BURDEN OF THEM FROM US.

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
THE SCHOOLMASTER TAUGHT US THE LAWS, THOSE LAWS GUIDE US TO BE MORE LIKE CHRIST, WHO WALKED PERFECT BEFORE GOD AND AS SUCH JUSTIFIED US

Galatians 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
BY THE TIME WE COME TO CHRIST, WE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF GODS LAWS AND WITH OUR FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST AND THE LOVE OF GOD, WE NO LONGER JUST "OBEY" BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT TO DIE, BUT WE LOVE HIS WAYS AND THAT LOVE IS WHAT KEEPS US IN HIS WAYS NATURALLY. SOME CALL THIS FOLLOWING THE LAW. SOME CALL THIS WALKING IN FAITH.

Romans 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone
Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
THIS IS WHERE THEY STUMBLED, WITH THE LACK OF FAITH AND LOVE

How is it that legalists don't even understand their own bibles but attempt to teach Christians the law????

BECAUSE SOME HAVE GONE BEYOND SELF AND ARE NOW GOING OUT TO TEACH AND BAPTIZE AND AS SUCH MUST TEACH THE LAWS OF MOSES FOR THE PURPOSES GOD GAVE THEM TO THE PEOPLE, AND TEACH THE COMMANDS JESUS GAVE UNDER THE NEW COVENANT. AND THOUGH THEY ALL COME DOWN TO WALKING IN LOVE, WHEN YOU ARE TEACHING A "CHILD" OF GOD, YOU STILL MUST TEACH ALL THAT IS WRITTEN, LAWS AND ALL. SOME CALL THIS FOLLOWING THE LAW. IT IS WHAT WE WERE TOLD TO DO. WE DO NOT STOP BECAUSE OTHERS DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW OR BELIEVE THEY ARE DEAD TO THE LAW SUCH AS YOURSELF.


5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
WITHOUT God we are nothing but dust, but WITH God we can do anything
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Yes, we are to teach the New Covenant, not by the letter, (the way Satan will take the Word and twist it to mean what ever he wants it to mean) but by the Spirit in which it was intended, the TRUTH OR MEANING of Gods Will for us, that is what gives us life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
If that Law, when given to Moses was so glorious that it changed the way he looked and was so perfect that sinners could not even look upon his face
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
How much more glorious are the commands when followed in the spirit!!!
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
The law lead us to Christ, Christ leads us to God, and as yet sinners, we are made righteous before God by the Savior.

I don't know why Legalists are so scared of Christianity. If they REALLY wanted to keep the law and follow Christ they would learn what Christianity is.
a flesh lead man can not stop in following the ways of the flesh.
Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors not to the flesh to live after the flesh.
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body ye shall live.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God they are the sons of God.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Galatians 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, HATRED, variance, emulations, wrath, STRIFE, seditions, heresies,
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.


I do understand why Judaizers don't like Christianity. I suppose they need to conceal what they actually are in order to attempt to pull Christians away from their steadfastness in Christ.

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Romans 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Romans 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.


Romans 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[wokinluv]

2 Corinthians 3:5-9
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


You managed to not answer any of those EASY questions.

Is it TOO clear and you don't want to appear foolish? Or do you still not understand?

I don't know why Legalists are so scared of Christianity. If they REALLY wanted to keep the law and follow Christ they would learn what Christianity is.

I do understand why Judaizers don't like Christianity. I suppose they need to conceal what they actually are in order to attempt to pull Christians away from their steadfastness in Christ.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


These are really easy scriptures. I don't know why legalists have such a hard time with them. But I HAVE noticed they seem to twist the same easy scriptures in the same kind of way. Attempting to turn a persons attention from the obvious point towards some obscure point about legalism. It would be strange if I hadn't seen it over and over and over again.

You seem to be as judgmental as the rest of your group.

So then, men ought to regard us as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the secret things of God. Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not? Some of you have become arrogant, as if I were not coming to you. But I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing, and then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of talk but of power. 1 Corinthians 4:1-21

do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Romans 11:18-22

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:17-18

Here's Paul's questions;

Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. Romans 3:31

What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.” Romans 3:3-4

Jesus asked,

“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:46

And instructed us to...

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” Matthew 28:19-20

...the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Romans 8:1-17

Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.” Mark 7:13

Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4,7-12

"Away from me, you workers of iniquity/lawlessness."

The master's word/s is a law to His servants written on their hearts.

Confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior and walk in Love.

God is good and His Love endures forever. Amen.

Glory be to God!

 

[Guojing]

This can be a over philsophical topic, with very flowery sppech. Im looking bottom line. DO you have a spirit body or a flesh body?

John 3:5-6, " 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

If you were born of the spirit you would have a spirit body, so indeed humans still live in the flesh. While in the flesh the trial contines.

With that said those that have had a heart change by God's spirit will behave differently, as I have quoted many times:

Hebrews 10:16-17, " 16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” 17 then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

the flesh is against GOd;s law, the spirit guides us to it.

So physically yes we are flesh, if we have GOd's spirit we wont live for the flesh.

So you agree that we still have the flesh in us, and we won't be redeemed of this flesh until we get our new body at the rapture.

I think our point of disagreement is that you don't think the Law stirs sin in that flesh? You interpret Romans 7 different from me?

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

2 Corinthians 3:5-9
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.


You managed to not answer any of those EASY questions.

Is it TOO clear and you don't want to appear foolish? Or do you still not understand?

I don't know why Legalists are so scared of Christianity. If they REALLY wanted to keep the law and follow Christ they would learn what Christianity is.

I do understand why Judaizers don't like Christianity. I suppose they need to conceal what they actually are in order to attempt to pull Christians away from their steadfastness in Christ.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.


These are really easy scriptures. I don't know why legalists have such a hard time with them. But I HAVE noticed they seem to twist the same easy scriptures in the same kind of way. Attempting to turn a persons attention from the obvious point towards some obscure point about legalism. It would be strange if I hadn't seen it over and over and over again.

I did answer by showoing the answer in the word.

Psalms 119:151-152, " 151 But you are near, O LORD, and all your commandments are true. 152 Long have I known from your testimonies that you have founded them forever.

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Matthew 22:36-40, " 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

John 7:16-17, " 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

What i mean by the flesh is our own power

And people do it all the time that is how Israel did it, and as we see they failed, yet thought they did not fail

OK, I see what you mean now, Terms are used in so many different ways by different people it's better to be clear, I have noticed that in my own wording.

SO I wouldn't say that assessment is wholly true. Because Israyl many times worshipped other gods, that not trying to keep the law with one's own ability that is forsaking the Creator andworshipping foolishness. Alsom from about 500 years before Jesus all the way until today much of Israelites kept man made laws, this is not trying to follow the law with one's ability, this is rejecting God's law and making your own. So the premise you set I believe is false. However, I will still answer; I think as Jer 31, Ez 36 and other verses say God changes our heart to love His laws and walk in them. But most people have not had this chage and hate you for even saying the forbidden word.... laws! Now once the heart change has happened we still are faced with trials and decisions in that we have to shoose His way or not. The key is IMO to focus on Jesus and pray for strength, and if we choose right, all glory to God.

Before I get accused by anyone for saying this, ask yourself does God force you to do right? No He empowers us and guides us. All glory to GOd!

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

So you agree that we still have the flesh in us, and we won't be redeemed of this flesh until we get our new body at the rapture.

I think our point of disagreement is that you don't think the Law stirs sin in that flesh? You interpret Romans 7 different from me?

the conclusion to rom 7:

Romans 7:22-25, " 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

John 8:34-36, " 34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I don;t think it's the law that makes us want to sin, I think it's satan's influence and men's corrupt hearts.

Matthew 4:1-4, " 1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” 4 But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

James 1:12-18, " 12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

james 1: 12 Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him.

 

[Guojing]

the conclusion to rom 7:

Romans 7:22-25, " 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

I don;t think it's the law that makes us want to sin, I think it's satan's influence and men's corrupt hearts.

.

To be precise, you are saying you don't think the law + the flesh = sin, even though Romans 7:25 seems to be stating that? What is your interpretation?

 

[gb9]

OK, I see what you mean now, Terms are used in so many different ways by different people it's better to be clear, I have noticed that in my own wording.

SO I wouldn't say that assessment is wholly true. Because Israyl many times worshipped other gods, that not trying to keep the law with one's own ability that is forsaking the Creator andworshipping foolishness. Alsom from about 500 years before Jesus all the way until today much of Israelites kept man made laws, this is not trying to follow the law with one's ability, this is rejecting God's law and making your own. So the premise you set I believe is false. However, I will still answer; I think as Jer 31, Ez 36 and other verses say God changes our heart to love His laws and walk in them. But most people have not had this chage and hate you for even saying the forbidden word.... laws! Now once the heart change has happened we still are faced with trials and decisions in that we have to shoose His way or not. The key is IMO to focus on Jesus and pray for strength, and if we choose right, all glory to God.

Before I get accused by anyone for saying this, ask yourself does God force you to do right? No He empowers us and guides us. All glory to GOd!

and what is doing right? manifesting the fruits of the Sprit. against these their is no Law.

in them is no Sabbath keeping. that is why you judeaizers push the Law instead of the Fruits of the Sprit.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

To be precise, you are saying you don't think the law + the flesh = sin, even though Romans 7:25 seems to be stating that? What is your interpretation?

For the RECORD: Breaking the law = sin.

1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

the conclusion to rom 7:

Romans 7:22-25, " 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

John 8:34-36, " 34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

I don;t think it's the law that makes us want to sin, I think it's satan's influence and men's corrupt hearts.

Matthew 4:1-4, " 1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” 4 But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

James 1:12-18, " 12 Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

james 1: 12 Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

and what is doing right? manifesting the fruits of the Sprit. against these their is no Law.

in them is no Sabbath keeping. that is why you judeaizers push the Law instead of the Fruits of the Sprit.

I see you love name calling. GOd says what is right and wrong.

John 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

 

[gb9]

I see you love name calling. GOd says what is right and wrong.

John 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

1 John 5:2-3, " 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

right.
but, when Jesus said keep My Commands, He was NOT referring to what God the Father said to Moses on Sinai.

on another mountain top, God the Father came down , in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and the Elijah ( the Prophets ), and said of the Son " this is my beloved Son. hear Him".

this elevates and seperates the Words in Red above all other Scripture.

and, when John spoke of command keeping, he was NOT speaking of the Torah. he said the Commands are " believe in the name of the Son, and love one another". same letter, chapter 3
so. these two judeaizder talking points are debunked. proceed to the next ones, they will be debunked to.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

right.
but, when Jesus said keep My Commands, He was NOT referring to what God the Father said to Moses on Sinai.

on another mountain top, God the Father came down , in the presence of Moses ( the Law ) and the Elijah ( the Prophets ), and said of the Son " this is my beloved Son. hear Him".

this elevates and seperates the Words in Red above all other Scripture.

and, when John spoke of command keeping, he was NOT speaking of the Torah. he said the Commands are " believe in the name of the Son, and love one another". same letter, chapter 3
so. these two judeaizder talking points are debunked. proceed to the next ones, they will be debunked to.

SO Hebrews 7. Levitical priesthood is no more, Jesus is High Priest, the law is not mediated by Him.

As you said "red" letters above all:

Acts 3:22-23, " 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

and Jesus says:

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void."

 

[Guojing]

I don;t think it's the law that makes us want to sin, I think it's satan's influence and men's corrupt hearts.
.

Instead of repeating your point, would you like to answer my question? Where do you think "the flesh" appear in your explanation?

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Instead of repeating your point, would you like to answer my question? Where do you think "the flesh" appear in your explanation?

I think the flesh is the vessel that we are in during the trial:

Psalms 11:4-5, " 4 The LORD is in his holy temple; the LORD's throne is in heaven; his eyes see, his eyelids test the children of man. 5 The LORD tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.