Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

[Lightskin]

Umm?

If you don’t believe that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, then your one word utterance above is the best thing you have going for you. Very sad.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Bottom line

The Law done properly and true is to obey every word, not fail in even one point (be it a mistake or on purpose) and maintain this status of perfection all your life

If you can not do this, You can not keep the law.

And you answered your own statement

Jesus did it. I pray you do not think you can walk perfectly like Jesus did.

Our goal is to not think we have made it, but continue to run the race before us, And learn from Jesus and others who have put the needs of others above their own, because they Love God.

Yes but we were talking about love, not total perfection. Fact is Jesus was perfect in love because He walked perfect in the Law, and this should go without saying, in it's true intent. Not a man's twisted version of it.

 

[Lightskin]

Yes but we were talking about love, not total perfection. Fact is Jesus was perfect in love because He walked perfect in the Law, and this should go without saying, in it's true intent. Not a man's twisted version of it.

With respect, not one individual on CC who pushes the law, loves perfectly. What EG has shared stands correct.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

WHO is saying this? I keep hearing you guys say this, But I do not SEE ANYONE WHO SAYS THIS?

it gets a little tiring when people say that people do not think we need to follow Christ, In about every discussion about obedience to the law. yet when everyone looks, NO ONE IS MAKING THIS CLAIM


Jews can't obey the law any better than the christians can. In fact, reality says, unless they are christian, they obey it less (although they will argue that with you, especially devout jews who THINK they are devoted to the law) However, they do not have Gods love poured out on them, so they in turn can take that love and pour it out on others.

WHICH IS WHAT JESUS DID. took his fathers love and poured it out on those he cam in contact with, whoever they were.

Jesus did not go around all his life focusing on which commands he needs to obey, He went around focusing on who to serve who to love

THATS the example he left us.

AT least 2 people here have told me "you follow Jesus by following Paul because Paul is OUR apostle" Implying or even saying :Jesus and the 12 were to jews" Yet I have disproven this with the word and with Scripture. Also you are the one making a big deal about the law, I have been saying over and over that Jesus is the way, the law was a side issue that it seems people disgree with me on thus it becomes a point talked about.

My bottom line is

Jesus is the one to follow:

Acts 3:22-23, " 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

His words; while in the flesh and the holy spirit brings THOSE word to us:

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

That there is only Him as sheperd/lerder, there is not different ways for different people:

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd."

and His words will never pass:

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Now the law topis is a part of this and git brought up, Im ok with this but it's not my focal point. But when someone tells me it's done away or not to be folloed I am going to support my view and in many cases use Jesus words to do so.

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

 

[Shekinahglory]

A child will already be touching and doing those things without a law against them.
We covet and we lie and we hate and lust before anyone ever teaches us a commandment not to do those things. A child is already covetous and vain before they even learn to speak so they can learn what coveting is and them be commanded not to. The law doesn't 'cause sin' by existing, that's not how the law makes sin more sinful. Sin is already present, but it becomes more sinful when not only is it unrighteousness but it is also transgression. Likewise sin doesn't cease to exist by virtue of a law being rescinded.

Jesus tells us lusting in our hearts is adultery, for example. The law against adultery only concerns the body, but sin and righteousness are in the heart. If the heart is pure it needs no law to be added to purify it, but if the heart is wicked no law will purify it.

Hi, I agree we do those things because sin is not just what we do sin is what we are in our Old Man. this is why it is appointed to all men to die once. Allowing us to die physically is one of the greatest gifts our Lord has given to us so we do not have to mourn like the world.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

what if they got circumcised only because they thought they had to because God commanded it, and if they want to be blessed, they think they have to do it?

Well it' hard to get into mens motivations of why they do things. But I would say if they do it because they wat to follow the Creator it's probably a good thing if they do it for anyonter reason it's probably not as good, particularly for "blessing" only, thats like a good example of being physically circumcised/baptised but not having a circumcised heart/changed heart.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes but we were talking about love, not total perfection.

Sorry bro. I was talking about the law. But if you were talking about love then yes, If you could love 24/7 as jesus love you could be like him and be perfect the law in your actions..

the problem is, No human I aver met or read about, even in scripture has mastered that type of love.

Fact is Jesus was perfect in love because He walked perfect in the Law, and this should go without saying, in it's true intent. Not a man's twisted version of it.

No. you see you have this backwards

Jesus walked perfect in the law BECAUSE he was perfect in love.

The law does not teach love, it just proves to us how unloving we really are.

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Grandpa did not say the law was gone

Please try to read what he is actually saying

Yes you misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with that part, that is why I said I have been sayiing " not "you are wrong about ------"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

AT least 2 people here have told me "you follow Jesus by following Paul because Paul is OUR apostle" Implying or even saying :Jesus and the 12 were to jews" Yet I have disproven this with the word and with Scripture. Also you are the one making a big deal about the law, I have been saying over and over that Jesus is the way, the law was a side issue that it seems people disgree with me on thus it becomes a point talked about.

My bottom line is

Jesus is the one to follow:

Acts 3:22-23, " 22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers. You shall listen to him in whatever he tells you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who does not listen to that prophet shall be destroyed from the people.’

His words; while in the flesh and the holy spirit brings THOSE word to us:

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

That there is only Him as sheperd/lerder, there is not different ways for different people:

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd."

and His words will never pass:

Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”

Now the law topis is a part of this and git brought up, Im ok with this but it's not my focal point. But when someone tells me it's done away or not to be folloed I am going to support my view and in many cases use Jesus words to do so.

Luke 16:16-17, " 16 “The Law and the Prophets were until John; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is preached, and everyone forces his way into it. 17 But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the Law to become void.

Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

yes I have seen that

But I am talking about who says we are not to follow Christ

I can say I follow paul he was ANOTHER great example. and NOT say we should not follow christ.

that would be foolish on my part.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well it' hard to get into mens motivations of why they do things. But I would say if they do it because they wat to follow the Creator it's probably a good thing if they do it for anyonter reason it's probably not as good, particularly for "blessing" only, thats like a good example of being physically circumcised/baptised but not having a circumcised heart/changed heart.

But that was given to the jews, So why would it be a good thing (other than for health reasons)

God never told me to get circumcized, so if I am doing it thinking I am obeying God, then I am in some trouble, I have misrepresented God and thus placed my faith in somethign which is not even true

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes you misunderstood my post. I was agreeing with that part, that is why I said I have been sayiing " not "you are wrong about ------"

forgive me then brother.

so many accusations being thrown around I am seeing them when they are not there

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

I frame all working at the law as working at the law.

You frame all "desire for obedience" to be working at the law. Because you don't know any other way.


If God has put HIS ACTUAL law in our hearts and minds then we don't need to go back to Commandments that Command people to keep His Law.

If one has the Spirit of God changing their heart they will have Gods Actual Law in their heart and mind. It will be a wondrous thing.

It will not be the Ministration of Death and Condemnation, Commanding people to keep His Law.




The only thing that is funny here is how you can ALWAYS manage to circle back to working at the law. That is funny.

The point, and Pauls point, is that working at the law is NOT of faith.

The one who does them shall live in them is referring back to verse 10 and 11.

Galatians 3:10-11
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.




Romans 9:30-32
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Do you see that? The righteousness which is of faith (in Christ). Remember in Galatians where Scripture says working at the law is NOT of faith? Well, here it comes again...

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;


Well you are stumbling over the same rock of offense. You aren't seeking Righteousness by faith, like I am showing you.

You are seeking Righteousness by working at the law.

But when I show you that your work at the law DOESN'T establish the law, only faith in Christ does you can't understand.

Only by faith in Christ are any of Gods Laws obeyed.

And once you turn away from Christ and back to your work at the law your obedience stops.


You can't have blessing and cursing simultaneously.

You can't have condemnation and Righteousness simultaneously.

You can only have one or the other.

LOL you quote a verse that says law in it, then say "I always circel back to the law" when I reply to it.

And again discern between midrasic and what the text actually says. I will go with what the text being quoted actually says.

Again all obedience is not "working" say what you will Jesus says to follow God's commands.

Revelation 14:12-13, " 12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!”

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

When do you think it is that God puts His Laws on the Hearts and writes them on the Mind?

What do you think it is that gives Christians Rest from their work at the 10 commandments?

No not rest from His Commands.

Rest from sin:

John 8:34-36, " 34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin. 35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

forgive me then brother.

so many accusations being thrown around I am seeing them when they are not there

It is very easy to misread, I have done it myself. No problem, also you were kind about it simply point out rather than attacking.

Water under the bridge!

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

Aye! This "cycle of rebelliousness", seems to be coming round again, don't it?
That these same "types", looking for a "king", would indeed try and "recrucify" their king again!

Like Jesus pulled the law out of a box of cracker jacks!

That reminds me of these:

John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”

John 7:16-17, " 16 So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. 17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority."

John 14:23-26, " 23 Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me. 25 “These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you."

But I think "Marcionisim" is strong and well today, and many unknowingly adhere to this doctrine rather than Jesus actual words:

Mar·cion·ism: the doctrinal system of a sect of the second and third centuries a.d. accepting some parts of the New Testament (Paul) but denying Christ's corporality and humanity and condemning the Creator God of the Old Testament

Heretical sect founded in A.D. 144 at Rome by Marcion and continuing in the West for 300 years, but in the East some centuries longer, especially outside the Byzantine Empire. They rejected the writings of the Old Testament and taught that Christ was not the Son of the God of the Jews, but the Son of the good God, who was different from the God of the Ancient Covenant. They anticipated the more consistent dualism of Manichaeism and were finally absorbed by it. As they arose in the very infancy of Christianity and adopted from the beginning a strong ecclesiastical organization, parallel to that of the Catholic Church, they were perhaps the most dangerous foe Christianity has ever known.

In reality I think in it's modern form I think it reject the old testament and Jesus words.

 

[NayborBear]

Well if you disagree with the bear, You reject Jesus..

I think that fact was established awhile ago

I do not reject Jesus! Never have? Never shall!
On the other hand? I do not reject He who sent Christ either!
What I do reject however, and question the integrity of, are those, in their refusing further refining from He who sent Christ, from going onwards, "as they are confessed" to He who sent Christ, by stating they don't HAVE Christ in them!
They are WRONG in doing so!

They are ALSO wrong in stating after constant restating that Mosaic law is "working FOR salvation!" Nothing could be FURTHER then what is actually being done here.
In order to be "formed IN THE IMAGE of Christ?" One HAS to be "in the PRESENCE" of He who sent Christ!
Of COURSE, Christ is there WITH you! But, you are there "by your lonesome" IN THEIR PRESENCE! CARRYING "YOUR" CROSS!
And? It is through the "constant rejecting" of going unto He who sent Christ? Where those who have "self assured themselves" that salvation by grace through faith alone? Is ALL the "Inheritance OF God", they require!
So you see, it's NOT works FOR salvation! It's works FOR "Inheritance!"

They keep on saying it is? When it ISN'T!
They are WRONG in doing this as well!

 

[FollowtheShepherd]

With respect, not one individual on CC who pushes the law, loves perfectly. What EG has shared stands correct.

However you are "correcting me" for something I never said or impleid.

Yes but we were talking about love, not total perfection. Fact is Jesus was perfect in love because He walked perfect in the Law, and this should go without saying, in it's true intent. Not a man's twisted version of it.

Also nobody on earth loves perfectly except Jesus.

 

[Lightskin]

I understand you are talking about continuing past being saved by Christ and moving onto the Father. Is there a thread, or could you start one on just that subject. I would really love to see what God has shared with you. I think the overwhelming amount of scripture that flat out says "follow, do, keep ect. my commands" verses anyone who says don't, has been settled and now it is just word games . It seems there are a few people like me who may be ready for a more detailed version.

Who on CC says DON’T follow God’s commands?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not reject Jesus! Never have? Never shall!
On the other hand? I do not reject He who sent Christ either!
What I do reject however, and question the integrity of, are those, in their refusing further refining from He who sent Christ, from going onwards, "as they are confessed" to He who sent Christ, by stating they don't HAVE Christ in them!
They are WRONG in doing so!

They are ALSO wrong in stating after constant restating that Mosaic law is "working FOR salvation!" Nothing could be FURTHER then what is actually being done here.
In order to be "formed IN THE IMAGE of Christ?" One HAS to be "in the PRESENCE" of He who sent Christ!
Of COURSE, Christ is there WITH you! But, you are there "by your lonesome" IN THEIR PRESENCE! CARRYING "YOUR" CROSS!
And? It is through the "constant rejecting" of going unto He who sent Christ? Where those who have "self assured themselves" that salvation by grace through faith alone? Is ALL the "Inheritance OF God", they require!
So you see, it's NOT works FOR salvation! It's works FOR "Inheritance!"

They keep on saying it is? When it ISN'T!
They are WRONG in doing this as well!

People say they know Christ all the time

does not mean they do.

As much as you lie and slander others of saying things they never said. Well you get the picture, how can we then trust you?

 

[Lightskin]

Also nobody on earth loves perfectly except Jesus.

Exactly, Which is why our works are but filthy rags to God, but for some reason Works Salvationists deem themselves righteous. On another note, I apologize if I misunderstood you.