Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?

[sawdust]

Acting as God was not the issue. satan was trying to deceive Christ by tricking him into doing something satan claimed was ok but wasn't like how he twisted scripture to make it seem like Jesus could jump off a cliff and be saved by angels. Christ knew that was not what the scripture spoke about plus if he jumped and wasn't saved, he likely would die and not fulfill the prophecies like the Cross.

Actually I was thinking more about turning stones to bread. That is not a temptation for you and me, as we do not have that type of inherent power, but Christ did. While he did not function as God, it does not mean He stopped being God so even as a man He could utilize His own power to do such a thing if He wanted. However, if he had done so it would have been "against the rules" (so to speak) as he had to live and function solely as a man in order to die as a man for man.

 

[ewq1938]

Actually I was thinking more about turning stones to bread. That is not a temptation for you and me, as we do not have that type of inherent power, but Christ did.

It isn't stated directly but I believe Christ was fasting, so satan was trying to get him to cheat.

Luk 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.

While he did not function as God, it does not mean He stopped being God so even as a man He could utilize His own power to do such a thing if He wanted. However, if he had done so it would have been "against the rules" (so to speak) as he had to live and function solely as a man in order to die as a man for man.

He did not live as a normal man though. He performed all kinds of miracles. It was during the 40 days that satan tried to get Jesus to make a mistake or cheat and that didn't work. satan later would try influencing others to try to harm Christ and his ministry but that also failed.

 

[sawdust]

It isn't stated directly but I believe Christ was fasting, so satan was trying to get him to cheat.

Luk 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.







He did not live as a normal man though. He performed all kinds of miracles. It was during the 40 days that satan tried to get Jesus to make a mistake or cheat and that didn't work. satan later would try influencing others to try to harm Christ and his ministry but that also failed.

I agree Satan was trying to get Jesus to cheat but eating while you are hungry or trusting the Lord to catch you if you fall from a high place or knowing man's place is to rule on earth (rather than be ruled by earth) are all legitimate things except under the circumstances in which Christ faced them. Satan wasn't appealing to Christ's humanity, he was appealing to Christ's Deity through His humanity and it was agreed (with the Father) He would not function as God during the Incarnation but would live solely within the limitations of a man. Hence the Phil. passage regarding not seeking equality with God. If Jesus acted at any time as God, not only would it disqualify Him to go to the Cross, it would also have been unnecessary for Him to be filled with the Holy Spirit. He could have performed all the miracles through His own power on His own authority.

 

[ewq1938]

He would not function as God during the Incarnation but would live solely within the limitations of a man.

He functioned as God quite a lot during the incarnation.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

He functioned as God quite a lot during the incarnation.

Jesus was micromanaged.

● John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God; he speaks God's words, for God's spirit
is upon him without measure or limit.

● John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but
the will of Him who sent me

● John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things
which I have heard of Him.

● John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as
the Father taught me.

● John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me
alone; for I do always those things that please Him.

● John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

● John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

● John 14:31 . . I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

I suggest that Jesus functioned for God rather than as God because that's
what all the prophets prior to him did. In point of fact, Jesus went them all
one better because he was authorized to forgive sin whereas they typically
weren't.
_

 

[sawdust]

He functioned as God quite a lot during the incarnation.

He functioned as a man in the power of the Holy Spirit. Everything he said and did was authorised by the Father.

 

[PaulThomson]

It's extremely hard for us to get our head around, the fact the He had two natures coexisting at the same time. It's even harder to grasp the Holy Trinity where three distinct Persons make the One Godhead and all three are equally God.

It only hard if you try to fit scholar theologians' explanations of the dual natures and the Trinity onto the Bible. after they have already assumed Greek metaphysics to be fact that are not facts.
It's their false assumptions that make their explanations have to be so complicated, in their attempts to smooth out the wrinkles their false assumptions have introduced.

 

[ewq1938]

He functioned as a man in the power of the Holy Spirit. Everything he said and did was authorised by the Father.

Yes and Jesus was also God the Son and said he was God so he did not only live as a man only. He was man and God at the same time.

 

[Mem]

Jesus trusted God in everything. His statement, '...but by every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD" reflects back to Deuteronomy 8:3's reference to the manna that fed the Israelites in the desert. Jesus is the personification of faith in God.

 

[Charlie_2024]

It only hard if you try to fit scholar theologians' explanations of the dual natures and the Trinity onto the Bible. after they have already assumed Greek metaphysics to be fact that are not facts.
It's their false assumptions that make their explanations have to be so complicated, in their attempts to smooth out the wrinkles their false assumptions have introduced.

That's a vague summary, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Who are you saying made the false assumptions and who's trying to iron out the wrinkles. Please be more specific.

 

[sawdust]

Yes and Jesus was also God the Son and said he was God so he did not only live as a man only. He was man and God at the same time.

I never said He wasn't God during the Incarnation, I said He did not function as God. He relied solely on the Father's authority in the power of the Holy Spirit. He functioned as a man on the authority of the Father, never His own authority which, He indeed had as God.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

 

[Charlie_2024]

I never said He wasn't God during the Incarnation, I said He did not function as God. He relied solely on the Father's authority in the power of the Holy Spirit. He functioned as a man on the authority of the Father, never His own authority which, He indeed had as God.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

There's no need to complicate this. Jesus didn't function as a pre programmed robot, He functioned autonomously as an ordinary man without any help from the Father. He had to pray to the Father like everyone else, He wasn't given any special treatment.

The only times He switched and used His God powers was to perform miracles in order to prove to the crowds that He was the Son of God. Nobody would have believe Him unless He showed them His power, so He only used it to prove who He was.

Nobody knew that He was the Son of God, until He performed His first miracle, by turning water into wine. So all the alcoholics at the wedding became believers, some fell away a few days later because He refused to make more of that good stuff

 

[Cameron143]

Jesus had the Spirit without measure. He certainly had the advantage over Adam.

 

[PaulThomson]

That's a vague summary, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Who are you saying made the false assumptions and who's trying to iron out the wrinkles. Please be more specific.

Greek metaphysics assumes that God must be simple, that is, has no parts. This is not a necessary assumption. But assuming that excludes the most intuitive understanding of Trinity and Christ's owning two natures in one person.
Theologians who assume God is simple need to write huge volumes of argumentation to contort the Biblical revelation of God into a model where God is assumed to be simple.
The unbiblical greek metaphysical assumption that any Person/s who is/are God must be immutable, also excludes the simplest understanding of what God can do and how a person who is God can become human while remaining the same divine person who pre-existed and created all things.

 

[sawdust]

He functioned autonomously as an ordinary man without any help from the Father.

You didn't read the scriptures in my last post evidently. You could also try reading the scriptures of post #85.

John 5:19
Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

Jesus did not function on His own authority as God. He had laid aside any claim to Godhead so He could function solely as a man in the exact same way we are to function in our Christian life. He could not function apart from the Father and Spirit any more than we could today. The true worshipers of God are those who worship in Spirit and truth.

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming (a reference to the future Church) and has now come (a reference to Himself) when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

The only times He switched and used His God powers was to perform miracles in order to prove to the crowds that He was the Son of God.

He did not "switch" from functioning as a man to God to back again at any time. Read john 5:19 again. He could do nothing of Himself.

 

[ewq1938]

I never said He wasn't God during the Incarnation, I said He did not function as God.

He did function as God, forgiving the sins of people he didn't know. (unlike people forgiving each other when friends sin/offend each other). The kind of forgiving he did was something only done by God functioning as God.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Greek metaphysics assumes that God must be simple, that is, has no parts. This is not a necessary assumption. But assuming that excludes the most intuitive understanding of Trinity and Christ's owning two natures in one person.
Theologians who assume God is simple need to write huge volumes of argumentation to contort the Biblical revelation of God into a model where God is assumed to be simple.
The unbiblical greek metaphysical assumption that any Person/s who is/are God must be immutable, also excludes the simplest understanding of what God can do and how a person who is God can become human while remaining the same divine person who pre-existed and created all things.

God is a mystery, so attempting to describe His attributes is a futile exercise.

We will never come close to knowing His attributes, those of us who spend eternity in His Kingdom will never get to know the mysterious things about God. We will spend eternity learning about Him but we will never learn everything about Him.

God has hidden the mysterious things about Him from us, for good reason. So we should never attempt to defy Him and try to get into the mind of God. I believe God casts those who try into the lake of fire.

 

[Charlie_2024]

You didn't read the scriptures in my last post evidently. You could also try reading the scriptures of post #85.

John 5:19
Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

Jesus did not function on His own authority as God. He had laid aside any claim to Godhead so He could function solely as a man in the exact same way we are to function in our Christian life. He could not function apart from the Father and Spirit any more than we could today. The true worshipers of God are those who worship in Spirit and truth.

John 4:23
Yet a time is coming (a reference to the future Church) and has now come (a reference to Himself) when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.



He did not "switch" from functioning as a man to God to back again at any time. Read john 5:19 again. He could do nothing of Himself.

You completely missed the point, I never said that Jesus didn't have life in Him. It's obvious He was alive like everyone else, so not sure what you're trying to say here.

Not sure why you cited John 5:19 everyone knows that the Father sent Jesus to purchase redemption for His elect. That's why Jesus said, (as an ordinary man) the Son can do nothing of Himself. He came into the world to fulfill the mission His father sent Him to accomplish.

But you can't deny the fact that He switched from being God to being an ordinary man, many times. An ordinary man cannot turn water into wine, nor walk on water. I don't know why you believe that men can do that stuff , when there is no biblical or historical evidence to support that absurd claim.

The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus changed His nature many times depending on the situation. He kept on switching between being The Almighty Jehovah God the creator of all things and back to being an ordinary man.

You seem to be suggesting that Jesus cheated everyone by pretending to be an ordinary man, whilst hiding His true nature and Almighty Jehovah God. No, the truth is He done the work of redemption as a man and He demonstrated His Divine power as God by the miracles He performed to prove that He is God. Nobody would have believed Him unless He showed off His power.

So the Bible doesn't support the erroneous view that He never switched His nature from man to God. The Bibles says that He did just that.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Jesus had the Spirit without measure. He certainly had the advantage over Adam.

Not true, He had no advantage over Adam. Jesus done the work of salvation as an ordinary man, He never cheated people to fake pain and stuff. He felt those nails going through the same as Adam would.

Please state the context before you make blanket statements, which others are bound to misunderstand.

 

[PaulThomson]

God is a mystery, so attempting to describe His attributes is a futile exercise.

We will never come close to knowing His attributes, those of us who spend eternity in His Kingdom will never get to know the mysterious things about God. We will spend eternity learning about Him but we will never learn everything about Him.

God has hidden the mysterious things about Him from us, for good reason. So we should never attempt to defy Him and try to get into the mind of God. I believe God casts those who try into the lake of fire.

You are making virtue-signalling excuses for the ignorance of God that Calvinism imparts to its victims.