Did Jesus Have an Advantage over Pre-Fall Adam During the Incarnation?
- Thread starter sawdust
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
A Person who is the Almighty Jehovah God, does not have to remain Almighty, to be the same Divine Person, if there are two other Persons who are also the Almighty Jehovah God. When He incarnated, Jesus gave up the glory He had with the Father before the world began; and after His resurrection He received that glory back. Jesus did not need to be Almighty to be the sinless second Adam, as long as He obeyed the Father, who did Almighty works through Him by the Holy Spirit. It's very simple, to understand, if you can let go of your so-called orthodox pre-programming and read what the Bible actually says with unbiased eyes.
i suggest God is never not God 
He humbled Himself, setting aside His glory to take the form of a servant.
the help of man is worthless, says the scripture - therefore Who can save? if He is only man, there is no salvation.
He humbled Himself, setting aside His glory to take the form of a servant.
the help of man is worthless, says the scripture - therefore Who can save? if He is only man, there is no salvation.
i suggest God is never not God
He humbled Himself, setting aside His glory to take the form of a servant.
the help of man is worthless, says the scripture - therefore Who can save? if He is only man, there is no salvation.
He humbled Himself, setting aside His glory to take the form of a servant.
the help of man is worthless, says the scripture - therefore Who can save? if He is only man, there is no salvation.
Sounds like something only God could do. Or would do.
-
1
- Show all
amen Paul said a bunch about it
“And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.”
John 8:29 KJV
“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. ( for us )
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:5-11
“Jesus is being God always. He stopped acting as God during the period we know as the Incarnation”
Jesus is surely God….who saw the we needed a perfect man to intercede and so he himself became flesh , not ceasing to be God in heaven but rather also becoming an obedient man on earth in order to intercede and save us
then after he returned to his eternal glory
“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
John 17:4-5 KJV
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”
James 1:13 KJV
He became a servant of God a perfect man who never sinned but he was tempted like we are only Jesus overcame and never failed or faultered
“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”
Matthew 4:1 KJV
“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.”
Hebrews 5:7-11 KJV
“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”
Hebrews 4:14-16 KJV
After his life in the flesh and he rose up and was glorified
“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
John 20:28-29 KJV
Jesus is God without question and he became a perfectly obedient man who never sinned without question because that’s what we needed to be saved .
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
John 14:10 KJV
He is fully God and became a real man like we are because that’s wheat we needed
In the ot …..
“ he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor:”
now however I’m the nt we have the lord Jesus Christ the son as our intercessor with God
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34 KJV
Now we have Jesus Christ the righteous as an advocate
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2 KJV
amen Paul said a bunch about it
“And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.”
John 8:29 KJV
“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. ( for us )
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:5-11
“Jesus is being God always. He stopped acting as God during the period we know as the Incarnation”
Jesus is surely God….who saw the we needed a perfect man to intercede and so he himself became flesh , not ceasing to be God in heaven but rather also becoming an obedient man on earth in order to intercede and save us
then after he returned to his eternal glory
“I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
John 17:4-5 KJV
“Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”
James 1:13 KJV
He became a servant of God a perfect man who never sinned but he was tempted like we are only Jesus overcame and never failed or faultered
“Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.”
Matthew 4:1 KJV
“Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.”
Hebrews 5:7-11 KJV
“Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.”
Hebrews 4:14-16 KJV
After his life in the flesh and he rose up and was glorified
“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
John 20:28-29 KJV
Jesus is God without question and he became a perfectly obedient man who never sinned without question because that’s what we needed to be saved .
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
John 14:10 KJV
He is fully God and became a real man like we are because that’s wheat we needed
In the ot …..
“ he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor:”
now however I’m the nt we have the lord Jesus Christ the son as our intercessor with God
“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
Romans 8:34 KJV
Now we have Jesus Christ the righteous as an advocate
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:1-2 KJV
-
2
- Show all
Strawman 1
Strawman 2
Straw conclusion.
Strawman 3
Strawman 4
Strawman5
Strawman 6
Strawman 7
You really need to grow up and learn to listen to what others are actually saying. We all miss-hear occasionally. But that post was atrociously ignorant of what Sawdust communicated very clearly.
Strawman 2
Straw conclusion.
Strawman 3
Strawman 4
Strawman5
Strawman 6
Strawman 7
You really need to grow up and learn to listen to what others are actually saying. We all miss-hear occasionally. But that post was atrociously ignorant of what Sawdust communicated very clearly.
-
1
- Show all
You've obviously never had a slave, or been one, or you would know that what you wrote here was complete idiocy. How did Onesimus run away from Philemon, if as you claim, "A slave has no autonomy or free will, a slave just trusts and obeys and shuts his mouth. He never ever questions or seeks or argues anything"?
I know. Calvinists don't believe the Bible. They believe traditions of men, and deny the Bible when it contradicts those traditions.
Matthew 28:18 "All authority in heaven and on earth IS GIVEN TO ME."
John 6:37 "All that the Father GIVES ME will come to me..."
John 6:39 "...that I should lose nothing of ALL THAT HE HAS GIVEN ME."
John 10:29 "My Father who HAS GIVEN THEM TO ME..."
John 12:49 "...but the Father who sent Me HAS HIMSELF GIVEN ME COMMANDMENT - WHAT TO SAY AND WHAT TO SPEAK."
John 17:7 "Now they know that everything YOU HAVE GIVEN ME IS FROM YOU."
John 17:8 "For I have given them the words THAT YOU GAVE ME..."
John 17:11 "For those YOU HAVE GIVEN ME..."
John 17:22 "The glory that YOU HAVE GIVEN ME, I have given to them..."
John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also, WHOM YOU HAVE GIEN ME, may be with me whre I a; to see my glory THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN ME..."
John 18:11 "Shall I not drink the cup THAT THE FATHER HAS GIVEN ME."
Heb. 2:13 "Behold I and the children GOD HAS GIVEN ME."
Matthew 28:18 "All authority in heaven and on earth IS GIVEN TO ME."
John 6:37 "All that the Father GIVES ME will come to me..."
John 6:39 "...that I should lose nothing of ALL THAT HE HAS GIVEN ME."
John 10:29 "My Father who HAS GIVEN THEM TO ME..."
John 12:49 "...but the Father who sent Me HAS HIMSELF GIVEN ME COMMANDMENT - WHAT TO SAY AND WHAT TO SPEAK."
John 17:7 "Now they know that everything YOU HAVE GIVEN ME IS FROM YOU."
John 17:8 "For I have given them the words THAT YOU GAVE ME..."
John 17:11 "For those YOU HAVE GIVEN ME..."
John 17:22 "The glory that YOU HAVE GIVEN ME, I have given to them..."
John 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also, WHOM YOU HAVE GIEN ME, may be with me whre I a; to see my glory THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN ME..."
John 18:11 "Shall I not drink the cup THAT THE FATHER HAS GIVEN ME."
Heb. 2:13 "Behold I and the children GOD HAS GIVEN ME."
What has obedience have to do with who Christ is, if He obeys the Father does that mean He is no longer God. You can try to twist this any way you like but the fact remains that Jesus has always been fully God from all eternity. He never stopped being God for a second.
So you need to come clean and admit that you believe Jesus had bipolar disease, where He lost His divinity while He was in the world and relied on black magic to fool the crowd into thinking He was some mighty one. You just don't make any sense
So you need to come clean and admit that you believe Jesus had bipolar disease, where He lost His divinity while He was in the world and relied on black magic to fool the crowd into thinking He was some mighty one. You just don't make any sense
-
2
- Show all
Speak for yourself, you do have much to learn but you can apply that to those who you know noting about.
Everything you said above is wrong, except for the part that you have much to learn.
Jesus had two natures while He was on the earth, His man nature and His God nature. As a man, He had to learn everything as the rest, but His God nature didn't need to learn anything. Both of His natures were within Him at the same time.
You falsely claim that "The life He lives in us, is His perfect human life" again this is not in the bible it's just more of your twisted theology coming out. Jesus doesn't live in anyone, He is in heaven and He never lived in anyone when He was on the earth.
He was nothing like us, you claim sin is just a small thing but God is against you. God hates sinners, it's no small thing it makes people enemies of God, so they are nothing like Jesus as you claim they are.
There is nothing to learn, we have the same gospel that everyone has had for the past 2000 years and there's nothing new to discover. You keep chasing every wind of false doctrine, always learning but never coming to the knowledge of saving faith.
Everything you said above is wrong, except for the part that you have much to learn.
Jesus had two natures while He was on the earth, His man nature and His God nature. As a man, He had to learn everything as the rest, but His God nature didn't need to learn anything. Both of His natures were within Him at the same time.
You falsely claim that "The life He lives in us, is His perfect human life" again this is not in the bible it's just more of your twisted theology coming out. Jesus doesn't live in anyone, He is in heaven and He never lived in anyone when He was on the earth.
He was nothing like us, you claim sin is just a small thing but God is against you. God hates sinners, it's no small thing it makes people enemies of God, so they are nothing like Jesus as you claim they are.
There is nothing to learn, we have the same gospel that everyone has had for the past 2000 years and there's nothing new to discover. You keep chasing every wind of false doctrine, always learning but never coming to the knowledge of saving faith.
-
1
- Show all
None of that makes any Biblical sense. The Bible never said that Jesus abandoned His God nature. He used it to show off His power to show the crowd who He was.
A man can do no miracles. He didn't have to go back to heaven and put His superman suit on every time He wanted to perform a miracle and we know He wasn't into black magic, so yeah
A man can do no miracles. He didn't have to go back to heaven and put His superman suit on every time He wanted to perform a miracle and we know He wasn't into black magic, so yeah
