Did Jesus take the punishment for our sins?

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Oct 24, 2012
17,688
777
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#21
The fulfillment of Law is to Love God with all our heart, mind, and soul/might and secondly to love our neighbor's as ourselves. God is not all about what He can give us, but it is definitely a two way street and to fulfill the Law is to trust and obey the commandments that are so graciously given to us, as a directive to travel, an instruction to live by and
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be perfected, thoroughly furnished to every good work.
Two way street
God created, we at least me responds in thanksgiving and praise to God Father in Son that is risen where the new life begins in each person that settles this in their own minds between God and them Renewing the mindset daily to see from Daddy's View to them by Son for them, taking none of it for granted anymore, as got done by me at first
I saw to ask fro the new Heart, spoken of in Ezekiel 36:26 and am given it, since I see to not be boastful or a person better than any other
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
4,758
656
113
#22
Or did he just die for our sins? This is something I've been trying to figure out for the past few months and have been unable to do so. As far as I have read, the language in the Holy Bible never explicitly says that Jesus took the punishment for our sins, but it seems clear to me that he died for them. Why does this matter? If we tack on that Jesus took the punishment for our sins without it being expressed in the Bible we may be believing something that never happened.

How does Jesus die for our sins without being punished? This is unclear to me, but Jesus was never guilty for our sins in the first place. He bore our sins so I suppose it's possible God treated him as if he was guilty for our sins and killed him for our sins without punishing him, I don't see the language in the Bible to come to the determination that he was punished for our sins, just that he died for them. Though the language may not be present in the Bible it may still be true that he was punished for our sins and that is why he died for them, but it really messes with me lol. I just don't see the interconnectory language that says he was punished for our sins (or it flat out saying it for that matter), it has to be gleaned from the text which really bugs me to do (because I'm often gleaning it based on a presupposition that he was punished for our sins and it's not in the text), and I don't really see an occasion for that.
Our sins have separated between us and God. Our sins have not separated God from us. In Him we live and move and have our being, He is closer to the sinner than the sinner's hands and feet. But our sins have an affect on our conscience, and can give us a sense of being unacceptable to God and of being rejected by Him, even if we are sorry for our sins. And our sins cause damage and therefore reap damage. Even if we are forgiven, the ongoing negative consequences from out past sins dog us, and we interpret this as that God is still against me. Our sins also enslave us to the forces of evil, and give them licence to attack and damage us, emotionally, physically and mentally.

There are two ways to deal with our sense of separation from God due to our gulty conscience. One is to confess it and regret it and aim to do better, which God appreciates, but we remain unsure whether we have been remorseful enough of consistent enough to receive forgiveness. Or we can sear our conscience by practising the sin so often that it become normal to us and we feel no guilt over it.

The cross deals with both of these approaches. God reveals to us in the incarnation, life, death and resurrection, that he loves us sufficiently willingly to endure the same sufferings as we have suffered at the hands of men and demons because of our sins. He wants such an intimate relationship with us that He wants to understand what it is like for us to feel abandoned by God and assailed by demons and men. The revelation of the extent to which God will go to connect with us experientially and to allow us to reconnect with Him and observe His character in action, enables us to trust that he is willing to forgive our sins. So we don't have to go on wondering if God has accepted me when I come to Him to make amends.

And the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Jesus is able to break the hard calloused cauterised heart too. When someone gets a vivid revelation of how mankind treated the perfectly-loving and forgiving One, after they have mocked and spurned the story for so long, but understand that even so Jesus wants their friendship, their heart can be broken and remade whole and soft.

Jesus was not punished for our sins. He experienced the consequences of our sins, as if He were guilty of them. His Father allowed men and demons to unleash their hatred of good upon Him.
This is the sense in which He Himself bore our iniquities; He was forsaken of God. He bore God's wrath, which is being abandoned by Him to the will of men and demons that He had been restraining, but I had nevertheless insisted He not be Lord in my life. When He is not my Lord, He is not My protector, shield, and fortress.
 
Oct 24, 2012
17,688
777
113
#23
Our sins have separated between us and God. Our sins have not separated God from us. In Him we live and move and have our being, He is closer to the sinner than the sinner's hands and feet. But our sins have an affect on our conscience, and can give us a sense of being unacceptable to God and of being rejected by Him, even if we are sorry for our sins. And our sins cause damage and therefore reap damage. Even if we are forgiven, the ongoing negative consequences from out past sins dog us, and we interpret this as that God is still against me. Our sins also enslave us to the forces of evil, and give them licence to attack and damage us, emotionally, physically and mentally.

There are two ways to deal with our sense of separation from God due to our gulty conscience. One is to confess it and regret it and aim to do better, which God appreciates, but we remain unsure whether we have been remorseful enough of consistent enough to receive forgiveness. Or we can sear our conscience by practising the sin so often that it become normal to us and we feel no guilt over it.

The cross deals with both of these approaches. God reveals to us in the incarnation, life, death and resurrection, that he loves us sufficiently willingly to endure the same sufferings as we have suffered at the hands of men and demons because of our sins. He wants such an intimate relationship with us that He wants to understand what it is like for us to feel abandoned by God and assailed by demons and men. The revelation of the extent to which God will go to connect with us experientially and to allow us to reconnect with Him and observe His character in action, enables us to trust that he is willing to forgive our sins. So we don't have to go on wondering if God has accepted me when I come to Him to make amends.

And the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Jesus is able to break the hard calloused cauterised heart too. When someone gets a vivid revelation of how mankind treated the perfectly-loving and forgiving One, after they have mocked and spurned the story for so long, but understand that even so Jesus wants their friendship, their heart can be broken and remade whole and soft.

Jesus was not punished for our sins. He experienced the consequences of our sins, as if He were guilty of them. His Father allowed men and demons to unleash their hatred of good upon Him.
This is the sense in which He Himself bore our iniquities; He was forsaken of God. He bore God's wrath, which is being abandoned by Him to the will of men and demons that He had been restraining, but I had nevertheless insisted He not be Lord in my life. When He is not my Lord, He is not My protector, shield, and fortress.
The way, the truth and the new life to get given us to stand in, given to whomever Daddy, PaPa, Father chooses, knowing who are sincere and who are not. God deals with us all though Son now, and so I thank my Lord unto his lord for this given gift, that Father is willing to give to all, and does to some and others not so much, seeing. the motives in us all and then decides to give or not give as of yet for his righteous reasons, that I do not understand, yet see the mysterious ways play out in the long haul. Therefore I see to wait in patience better today than yesterday
Standing in the trust to God in risen Son for me Col 1:21-23
 
Sep 24, 2012
693
185
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#24
Our sins have separated between us and God. Our sins have not separated God from us. In Him we live and move and have our being, He is closer to the sinner than the sinner's hands and feet. But our sins have an affect on our conscience, and can give us a sense of being unacceptable to God and of being rejected by Him, even if we are sorry for our sins. And our sins cause damage and therefore reap damage. Even if we are forgiven, the ongoing negative consequences from out past sins dog us, and we interpret this as that God is still against me. Our sins also enslave us to the forces of evil, and give them licence to attack and damage us, emotionally, physically and mentally.

There are two ways to deal with our sense of separation from God due to our gulty conscience. One is to confess it and regret it and aim to do better, which God appreciates, but we remain unsure whether we have been remorseful enough of consistent enough to receive forgiveness. Or we can sear our conscience by practising the sin so often that it become normal to us and we feel no guilt over it.

The cross deals with both of these approaches. God reveals to us in the incarnation, life, death and resurrection, that he loves us sufficiently willingly to endure the same sufferings as we have suffered at the hands of men and demons because of our sins. He wants such an intimate relationship with us that He wants to understand what it is like for us to feel abandoned by God and assailed by demons and men. The revelation of the extent to which God will go to connect with us experientially and to allow us to reconnect with Him and observe His character in action, enables us to trust that he is willing to forgive our sins. So we don't have to go on wondering if God has accepted me when I come to Him to make amends.

And the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Jesus is able to break the hard calloused cauterised heart too. When someone gets a vivid revelation of how mankind treated the perfectly-loving and forgiving One, after they have mocked and spurned the story for so long, but understand that even so Jesus wants their friendship, their heart can be broken and remade whole and soft.

Jesus was not punished for our sins. He experienced the consequences of our sins, as if He were guilty of them. His Father allowed men and demons to unleash their hatred of good upon Him.
This is the sense in which He Himself bore our iniquities; He was forsaken of God. He bore God's wrath, which is being abandoned by Him to the will of men and demons that He had been restraining, but I had nevertheless insisted He not be Lord in my life. When He is not my Lord, He is not My protector, shield, and fortress.
Reading right now and I don't see how he bore God's wrath or took the punishment for our sins, just that he died for them.

Isaiah 53:10 KJV
Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

This seems to be what God "did" to Jesus, he made his soul an offering for sin. I think this might mean he orchestrated events so that Jesus would be an offering for sin, but I have no idea.

So our sins were laid on Jesus by God, Jesus died for our sins, God made Jesus an offering for sin, where in this is that God punished Jesus or Jesus bore God's wrath? These two concepts seem entirely made up to me.