Did Paul think that he could lose his salvation?

[superdave5221]

1 Corinthians 9: 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize ? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim ; I box in such a way, as not beating the air ; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

What did Paul mean by saying so that "I myself will not be disqualified"? It is obvious that the theme here is the saving power of the gospel, (by bringing us to the knowledge of Jesus Christ). But he is also saying that it is not enough to preach the Gospel, one must live it! The prize Paul alludes to is salvation. He is saying that we must live our lives the same way that an athlete who wants to win does. An athlete makes winning his ultimate goal, and everything he does is with that goal in mind. He does nothing that hinders the accomplishment of that goal. We must discipline ourselves in the same way.

But is he saying that lukewarm Christians may not "win the prize"? Or is he saying that we must live as if we might lose our salvation, even though it is guranteed? Is there a minimum that we can do that will save us, (i.e. believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior), and anything more is a feather in our cap? Do our works matter? Paul speaks of giving up rights, such as the right to receive remuneration for his teaching of the Gospel. Is his reward going to be the same as those who get by only doing what is required?

 

[charisenexcelcis]

And later it says, "Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." There is something to be gained from faithfulness and something to be lost from unfaithfulness.
I do not believe that the early Christians lived in constant fear of losing their salvation, but neither where they presumptious.

 

[Wonderland]

Superdave, great question.

Here is my understanding... take it for what it is--most people will probably argue this position and that is ok. Right or wrong God is using this idea to refine my christian walk, so here it is.

Christians who accept Jesus Christ as their savior are sealed with the holy spirit (Biblical). God has foreknowledge of our salvation, which leads to predestination, calling, and salvation (Biblical). Some people will start the race, but will never finish (Biblical). Therefore, because God knows which of us will finish the race, he uses his foreknowledge to seal those with the holy spirit and they will always be saved. Some will start the race but not finish, and God will use his foreknowledge of that to refrain from sealing them with the spirit (even though the spirit may come upon them for a time, it will not indwell in them--(opinion/somewhat Biblical)).

In other words, God knows who will live faithfully to the end, and those he seals for eternal salvation.
He also knows who will not live faithfully until the end, and those he does not seal for eternal salvation.

This belief allows the doctrine of free will and predestination to dovetail nicely. A mystery of Bible scholars solved! (Though I say it a bit tongue-in-cheek because I do not know for sure that my belief is, in fact, absolutely true )


Right or wrong, this is my belief and since I have come to this conclusion based on my Biblical research and Bible studies, I have since stopped taking my salvation for granted. I need to be determined to finish the race, and I am!

Amen.
Be blessed.

 

[superdave5221]

Superdave, great question.

Here is my understanding... take it for what it is--most people will probably argue this position and that is ok. Right or wrong God is using this idea to refine my christian walk, so here it is.

Christians who accept Jesus Christ as their savior are sealed with the holy spirit (Biblical). God has foreknowledge of our salvation, which leads to predestination, calling, and salvation (Biblical). Some people will start the race, but will never finish (Biblical). Therefore, because God knows which of us will finish the race, he uses his foreknowledge to seal those with the holy spirit and they will always be saved. Some will start the race but not finish, and God will use his foreknowledge of that to refrain from sealing them with the spirit (even though the spirit may come upon them for a time, it will not indwell in them--(opinion/somewhat Biblical)).

In other words, God knows who will live faithfully to the end, and those he seals for eternal salvation.
He also knows who will not live faithfully until the end, and those he does not seal for eternal salvation.

This belief allows the doctrine of free will and predestination to dovetail nicely. A mystery of Bible scholars solved! (Though I say it a bit tongue-in-cheek because I do not know for sure that my belief is, in fact, absolutely true )


Right or wrong, this is my belief and since I have come to this conclusion based on my Biblical research and Bible studies, I have since stopped taking my salvation for granted. I need to be determined to finish the race, and I am!

Amen.
Be blessed.

Hey Wonderland,

Thanks for the response. When I posed these questions, I didn't know, and still don't know, the answer either. I was just wanting people to think about it and to see what others come up with. You are thinking at least. Your answer is interesting. My understanding, however, is that the indwelling occurs at immersion, when all past sins are forgiven. If this is so, then either all people who are immersed will be saved, or it is possible to lose that salvation through a complete apostasy. That is the connundrum that I am living under with my current beliefs. I totally agree with you that God has foreknowledge of our choices, but that we still make them freely. And by this, I mean the choice to accept Jesus' saving grace, not a choice as to whether we will sin.

 

[ed]

1 Corinthians 9: 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize ? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim ; I box in such a way, as not beating the air ; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

What did Paul mean by saying so that "I myself will not be disqualified"? It is obvious that the theme here is the saving power of the gospel, (by bringing us to the knowledge of Jesus Christ). But he is also saying that it is not enough to preach the Gospel, one must live it! The prize Paul alludes to is salvation. He is saying that we must live our lives the same way that an athlete who wants to win does. An athlete makes winning his ultimate goal, and everything he does is with that goal in mind. He does nothing that hinders the accomplishment of that goal. We must discipline ourselves in the same way.

But is he saying that lukewarm Christians may not "win the prize"? Or is he saying that we must live as if we might lose our salvation, even though it is guranteed? Is there a minimum that we can do that will save us, (i.e. believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior), and anything more is a feather in our cap? Do our works matter? Paul speaks of giving up rights, such as the right to receive remuneration for his teaching of the Gospel. Is his reward going to be the same as those who get by only doing what is required?

Hi superdave, On the scripture, "after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

My understanding of this is taken from my own personal experiences . When I open my big fat mouth and sprout something especially say on a forum like this, Jesus comes into my life and tests me to see if I will do, act, according to my words. These tests can be quite difficult. Of course there is no warning of the impending test and after you have passed through the storm, then understanding comes. From saying, what is that all about, to saying oh yeah now I understand. So to me Paul is saying, if he preaches one message but is not capable of living up to his words, then he will be disqualified. Paul only preaches what he knows and is willing and capable of fulfilling.
On the question of how much to do. Seek to do good. I also think your understanding of " belief in Jesus " is understating the word "belief" We also need to understand that God has many positions and varying amounts of faith are needed for varying kinds of service. The greater faith required the greater the teaching needed to develop the required faith. Faith comes from being saved. The more one is saved the more one learns to trust in Him. A person can only be saved when they are in trouble. Jesus lessons are learnt in real life and are full blooded and scary and frightening. He is always taking me out of my comfort zone, out of routines which I always seem to create. I find it hard not to live in routines and He keeps taking me out to them. Belief in Jesus Christ is more than believing in the bible story. When the belief comes then your belief is tested to see if it is sure. Job says God tested him daily. Each Christian should fully realise that Jesus Christ is alive and communicating with you. He is not confined to a book 2000 years old. He is living and speaking to you spiritually at the very least. He is also acting in your life and "keeping" you. God has given the work of saving you to Himself because He knows you are incapable of doing it yourself. But will he give this to you written in stone personally. No because He knows that if He gave such a guarantee then we would all rest in that surety and not strive. See what happened to Israel when God blessed them countless times. They went astray. We are called to belief not to knowledge.
love
edwin

 

[TotalUnion]

Superdave, great question.

Here is my understanding... take it for what it is--most people will probably argue this position and that is ok. Right or wrong God is using this idea to refine my christian walk, so here it is.

Christians who accept Jesus Christ as their savior are sealed with the holy spirit (Biblical). God has foreknowledge of our salvation, which leads to predestination, calling, and salvation (Biblical). Some people will start the race, but will never finish (Biblical). Therefore, because God knows which of us will finish the race, he uses his foreknowledge to seal those with the holy spirit and they will always be saved. Some will start the race but not finish, and God will use his foreknowledge of that to refrain from sealing them with the spirit (even though the spirit may come upon them for a time, it will not indwell in them--(opinion/somewhat Biblical)).

In other words, God knows who will live faithfully to the end, and those he seals for eternal salvation.
He also knows who will not live faithfully until the end, and those he does not seal for eternal salvation.

This belief allows the doctrine of free will and predestination to dovetail nicely. A mystery of Bible scholars solved! (Though I say it a bit tongue-in-cheek because I do not know for sure that my belief is, in fact, absolutely true )


Right or wrong, this is my belief and since I have come to this conclusion based on my Biblical research and Bible studies, I have since stopped taking my salvation for granted. I need to be determined to finish the race, and I am!

Amen.
Be blessed.

A good response, but may I say, even though there are those who may not ever finish the race, and God knows this, He does not stop calling out to them, the natural world alone echoes His Glory, so that we are without excuse...But God will always call out to them, even if it is in vain, because before Adam He new how we would rebel yet, the Lord loved us so dearly that He took the cost as painful as it is, and as much as it aches His heart, and considered man worth the pain it would bring, out of great unfathomable love He made us, He knows not all will be saved, and He say's "I do not delight in the destruction of the wicked" so it is, that He has left us without excuse, because He so loves us...So let us love him equally and run the race for his Glory, because our Spirit compels us to Him, so we may become what we were meant to be.