Did Those Who Were Never of The Elect Ever Have Free-Will?

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Jun 18, 2024
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#41
That is gobbledegook. It is my choice but in reality it is God's choice.

People go to hell because they reject the salvation that the Lord has wrought. He paid the price for everyone and anyone who would choose that salvation God will be obligated by righteousness to honor the price paid by Jesus to redeem them.
see 1Corins 1:30
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,884
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#42
That is gobbledegook. It is my choice but in reality it is God's choice.

People go to hell because they reject the salvation that the Lord has wrought. He paid the price for everyone and anyone who would choose that salvation God will be obligated by righteousness to honor the price paid by Jesus to redeem them.
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Mar 16, 2024
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#44
While I know I am about to enter the lion's den; the reality is that scripture itself would not have existed without free will. Even if you look at it as plainly as the man putting the pen to paper or even the Virgin Mary saying, "I am a hand maiden of the lord." Some type of free willed is offered.
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
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#45
any comment on the scripture verse quoted? Romans 9:22-24?
Keep reading.
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:32 (KJV)
 
Jun 18, 2024
45
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#46
Keep reading.
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:32 (KJV)
Hi John, the verse above says that "he "might" have mercy upon All". it doesn't mean they have "All", "received" His Mercy..see verse 30
 

JohnRH

Junior Member
Mar 5, 2018
671
321
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#48
Hi John, the verse above says that "he "might" have mercy upon All". it doesn't mean they have "All", "received" His Mercy..see verse 30
Of course not; many refuse it and that's a bad sovereign election on their part.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
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#49
Because if there is no free will then there cannot be any judgment on sin. And if there is no judgment there is no hell.
But that is not what fatalists reject it. So it has to be deeper than this. Although I agree with your concept. If there is no free will. God can not judge a person for rejecting him in unbelief.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
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#50
Those who are not of the elect have free will, but it's not necessarily God's will...Those who are of the elect are chosen based on God's will Not their own will..(men's will and God's will)..
Gods will is that all who see and believe shall not perish but live forever.

so I disagree with what you said,, Its Gods will that we recieve him in faith. That is what repentance is all about. Acknowledging our sin, Even Gods command to israel as a nation said even after God punishes them completely. he will remember his promise if they will repent. And confess their sins and the sins of their fathers.

free will is all over the place
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
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#51
Those who are not of the elect have free will, but it's not necessarily God's will...Those who are of the elect are chosen based on God's will Not their own will..(men's will and God's will)..
Welcome to chat by the way!! :)
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
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#52
perhaps if it is restated:

must one be capable of evil, in order to be free?​
:coffee::unsure:
I like this

Adam had to be capable of eating the forbidden tree, in order for him to truly be free.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
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#54
H

Hi, if God wants absolutely no one in Hell then there should be no one will end up in hell...Romans 9:22-24
Then no one would end up in Hell

Try reading romans 9 from a different perspective. About Gods chosing Israel (vs 1 - 5) and how God did not make a mistake (vs 6)

and see that God chose Jacob as a great nation. And not Esau, He did not chose to sent one baby to hell before he was even born..
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
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#55
Hi, we end up in "hell" not because of God's choice but "ours". But the choice to be saved from the judgement of those in hell is solely God..Romans 9:13-15
So, if God did not choose me to be save then I'll end up in hell..
But if God does not allow us the opportunity to believe (whether we do or not is up to us) then it is God who sent us to hell is it not? It was not our choice
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
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#56
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:

but the righteous into life eternal.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41-

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬
So only those who do good will get to heaven?

How good is good enough?
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,843
1,854
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#57
Hi John, the verse above says that "he "might" have mercy upon All". it doesn't mean they have "All", "received" His Mercy..see verse 30
Of course not

He gives mercy to those who recieve him. But he offers it to all.. You can;t say he offers it to all if all do not have the ability to recieve or reject it.
 

Hakawaka

Active member
Jul 1, 2021
307
157
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#58
Hi John, the verse above says that "he "might" have mercy upon All". it doesn't mean they have "All", "received" His Mercy..see verse 30
Correct. It says might because not all believe the Gospel!
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,281
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#59
But that is not what fatalists reject it. So it has to be deeper than this. Although I agree with your concept. If there is no free will. God can not judge a person for rejecting him in unbelief.
Yes, so this doctrine denies the word of God and denies what Jesus tells us directly about hell and judgment.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,884
5,630
113
#60
Keep reading.
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Romans 11:32 (KJV)
This is his offer of mercy for all

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its offered to all creatures some will hear and believe and be saved others will hear it and like the parables jesus told they will want other things instead of what he’s offering they’ll want the world not the kingdom

If you receive a wedding invite but you choose not to go because you have other plans ….it isnt the persons fault that invited you that you didn’t attend it was a chioce you were offered

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a they didn’t end up attending the wedding not because they weren’t invited like everyone else but because they chose other things to attend salvation is Gods free offer to mankind but he doesn’t bind us and make us attend he calls to us to attend