Different Approaches?

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oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#1
In John 8, Jesus presents the Gospel to both the Woman taken in Adultery and then to the Pharisees. Compare and contrast any differences you might see in Jesus' presentation of Salvation. Why didn't Jesus say exactly the same thing to each, or do you think Jesus did?

Jesus focuses on the common people, including the woman taken in adultery...

John
8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard][ them not].
8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jesus then focuses on the Pharisees...

John
8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.


and a bit later...

8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.
8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#2
In John 8, Jesus presents the Gospel to both the Woman taken in Adultery and then to the Pharisees. Compare and contrast any differences you might see in Jesus' presentation of Salvation. Why didn't Jesus say exactly the same thing to each, or do you think Jesus did?

Jesus focuses on the common people, including the woman taken in adultery...

John
8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard][ them not].
8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jesus then focuses on the Pharisees...

John
8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.


and a bit later...

8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.
8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
I believe that both James and Peter nailed the contrasts when they said:

"But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6)

"Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." (I Peter 5:5)
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#3
I believe that both James and Peter nailed the contrasts when they said:

"But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6)

"Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." (I Peter 5:5)
Yes, Amen. Reminds me of the parable of the different soils.
 
L

Live4Him

Guest
#4
Yes, Amen. Reminds me of the parable of the different soils.
The self-righteous and proud not only oftentimes reject the message, regardless of how it presented to them, but they oftentimes reject the messenger as well, regardless of their approach.

To this point, Jesus said:

Matthew chapter 11

[16] But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
[17] And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
[18] For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
[19] The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

John the Baptist came neither eating nor drinking, and they basically told him "We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced" or to not be so serious. Of course, they ultimately accused him of having a devil/demon.

Jesus Christ came eating and drinking, and they basically told him "We have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented" or to be more serious. Of course, they not only accused him of being "a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners", but ultimately accused him of having a devil/demon (John 7:20, 8:48) as well.

And so it goes...
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
6,285
1,805
113
#5
In John 8, Jesus presents the Gospel to both the Woman taken in Adultery and then to the Pharisees. Compare and contrast any differences you might see in Jesus' presentation of Salvation. Why didn't Jesus say exactly the same thing to each, or do you think Jesus did?

Jesus focuses on the common people, including the woman taken in adultery...

John
8:1 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.
8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
8:5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
8:6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with [his] finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard][ them not].
8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
8:9 And they which heard [it], being convicted by [their own] conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jesus then focuses on the Pharisees...

John
8:13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
8:14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.


and a bit later...

8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.
8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Imo, verses 15 & 16 contain the key that Jesus was saying, or rather doing, the same thing ( i.e., judging righteously). After all, I realize the terms are often equated, but I think Jesus demonstrates the distinction here between judgment and condemnation. He didn't actually withhold (true) judgment from the adulterous woman in advising her path forward, but He did not condemn her. Then, in verse 21, Jesus declares,"...'ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins:..." and further, in v.24, alludes to (the world's 'default' ? state of) condemnation, "for if ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins."