Discernment

[The_highwayman]

'General discernment' (is there anywhere in the Bible that actually uses that term?) is just a lesser manifestation of spiritual discernment. It is ALL spiritual discernment.

Ricky,
The word understanding found in the book's of Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes in the Hebrew means general dicernment.
A good hint is when wisdom and understanding are used together in a verse in the above mentioned books.

Prov 8.14 is a perfect example here, the word understanding in tha tverse measn to naturally discern.

We should really not say general discernment and use a better term...Natural discernment is that which is built from wisdom of God'w word and is tlaked about in Heb 5. The gifts of discerning of Spirits is supernatural and allows you to see and hear into the spiritual realm and you do not "feel or sense anything in your natural mind, as you do with natural discernment.

It is not the gift of spiritual discernment, it is the gift of discerning of spirits and there is only 1 gift the other is natural discernment that comes from the wisdom of God's word being applied in your life.

 

[notuptome]

The Holy Spirit only speaks of that which He has received from the Father. The Holy Spirit operates through the word of God not on His own. This is how we discern the spirits not by feeling or innate vibes. Emotions are not reliable as they source from a heart of flesh.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

The Holy Spirit only speaks of that which He has received from the Father. The Holy Spirit operates through the word of God not on His own. This is how we discern the spirits not by feeling or innate vibes. Emotions are not reliable as they source from a heart of flesh.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

And the inability to discern spiritual gifts from fleshly emotions is why you don't believe in the gifts.

 

[RickyZ]

Ricky,
The word understanding found in the book's of Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes in the Hebrew means general dicernment.
A good hint is when wisdom and understanding are used together in a verse in the above mentioned books.

Prov 8.14 is a perfect example here, the word understanding in tha tverse measn to naturally discern.

We should really not say general discernment and use a better term...Natural discernment is that which is built from wisdom of God'w word and is tlaked about in Heb 5. The gifts of discerning of Spirits is supernatural and allows you to see and hear into the spiritual realm and you do not "feel or sense anything in your natural mind, as you do with natural discernment.

It is not the gift of spiritual discernment, it is the gift of discerning of spirits and there is only 1 gift the other is natural discernment that comes from the wisdom of God's word being applied in your life.

Proverbs 8 - NKJ

12I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
13The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the forward mouth, do I hate.
14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.
15By me kings reign, and princes decree justice.
16By me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth.
17I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
18Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
19My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and my revenue than choice silver.
20I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment:
21That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

And where do you see discernment in here? This is about wisdom, a totally different horse. And as it starts out with "I, wisdom", this is not a person speaking but wisdom itself. Wherever you see the words I, me, mine, those are wisdom talking, not some person talking about his wisdom. Verse 13 ends with "and the forward mouth, does wisdom hate".

Let me ask you this, is there evil in this world that is not spiritually based?

 

[4enlightment]

I was derailing another thread (or following a little sidetrack) where someone had said Godly discernment was a challenge. I answered that it wasn't a challenge, but a gift, and that the challenge was in getting Christians to believe that. But as I thought about it some more, I saw what a unique gift it is. It is the only one (that I recall) that we are told to actually practice, in order to hone it. Which really elevates it to the realm of a skill (some translations even use that word). And so while all the other gifts are a relatively spur of the moment thing, the gift of discernment is ongoing, and on-call. And we are told to call on it frequently enough that we are intimately familiar with it. Like a carpenter and his hammer.

Receive the gifts of the Spirit. But beyond that, practice the skill of discernment. Hone it like you do your sword.









Thoughts?

The Holy spirit will teach us not by our own understandings of the word, but by what is truly being said.

 

[Blain]

I want to share something with all of you. I went into my bathroom and I have a shower/bathtub in there. The second I went in there I sensed a horrible terrifying presence standing in the tub. The fear I felt is something I have never known I knew to call out Jesus name and tried to but it was like something had grabbed my tongue I couldn't say it so I ran out and went into my room and began to pray and when I went back in there it was Gone. I couldn't see whatever was in there yet I could tell exactly where it was.

 

[The_highwayman]

And where do you see discernment in here? This is about wisdom, a totally different horse. And as it starts out with "I, wisdom", this is not a person speaking but wisdom itself. Wherever you see the words I, me, mine, those are wisdom talking, not some person talking about his wisdom. Verse 13 ends with "and the forward mouth, does wisdom hate".

Ricky, keep going to verse 14 which states....

14Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom: I am understanding; I have strength.

The Hebrew words for understanding in verse 14 and used many times in Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes are:

biyn & biynah

And they mean:

to discern, understand, consider

1. (Qal)
   
   1. to perceive, discern
      
   2. to understand, know (with the mind)
      
   3. to observe, mark, give heed to, distinguish, consider
      
   4. to have discernment, insight, understanding
2. (Niphal) to be discerning, intelligent, discreet, have understanding
   
3. (Hiphil)
   
   1. to understand
      
   2. to cause to understand, give understanding, teach
4. (Hithpolel) to show oneself discerning or attentive, consider diligently
   

This is the discernement the author of Hebrews speaks about in Hebrews 5 and IS NOT the same as the gift of discerning of spirits found 1 Cor 12.

It is wise to discern what the author of Proverbs was saying in Hebrew and not just the translated word in the kings English, which means a completely different thing and why doctrine today is sketchy at best.

 

[The_highwayman]

Let me ask you this, is there evil in this world that is not spiritually based?

NO, there is no physical evil in the world and it is all spiritual evil, because we do not wrestle with flesh and blood.

You cannot claim Heb 5 and 1 Cor 12 are the same thing, because they are not.

Heb 5.14 give us the largest clue that the discernment it speaks about is not the same as the gift of discerning of spirits.

Heb 5.14 says in part: have their senses exercised

The word senses here in the Greek means the sense knowledge of the natural mind of a man and not the spirit in a man.

1 Cor 12.1-11 says:

Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

[SUP]9 [/SUP]To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

[SUP]10 [/SUP]To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.



It is clear that the gift of discerning of spirits is NOT worked out through our mind, will or emotions, but it is given to a person by the Spirit.

Anything given by the Holy Spirit is supernatural and not of our carnal, natural, or sense knowledge.

Discerning between good and evil is natural discernment God bestows through wisdom to all his children. The gift of discerning of spirits allows you to see and hear into the spiritual realm.

 

[RickyZ]

I don't know if you followed the link and read the story about Vicky. But let's review it in a nutshell.

I met this woman who in all appearances was a good person. She was kind and respectful to all, and gave of both her time and money to several charities. There was nothing in our initial encounters that would have given me the knowledge that there was evil behind her. And yet I sensed that evil right away.

It was at some later time that I learned she was heavily involved in kabbalah, in insidious evil. Once I began praying over that, these evil spirits became visible and audible to me, on multiple occasions. (You really should read the story).

So you are saying that my initial impression of the evil was a general discernment, and not of the Holy Spirit, even though there was absolutely nothing physically present to give me that knowledge, while the later visions of this evil were then a spiritual discernment? Even though both occurrences were in fact discerning the same evil?

 

[notuptome]

And the inability to discern spiritual gifts from fleshly emotions is why you don't believe in the gifts.

Oh I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit but you simply err in how you perceive them. The heart is desperately wicked and who can know it. God still operates according to His word. Discernment rest upon the word of God not the fleshly heart of man.

Always makes me wonder why some folks are in among the demons and evil spirits. Perhaps they are among them for a reason. Tongue in cheek here. But do you know how to create a demon friendly environment?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

Oh I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit but you simply err in how you perceive them. The heart is desperately wicked and who can know it. God still operates according to His word. Discernment rest upon the word of God not the fleshly heart of man.

Always makes me wonder why some folks are in among the demons and evil spirits. Perhaps they are among them for a reason. Tongue in cheek here. But do you know how to create a demon friendly environment?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Uhm... so you believe in the gifts of healing, prophecy, etc? That kinda goes against everything I recall reading from you about the subject.

Some folks are "among" (I would use the word conscious of) the spirits because God grants them that gift (maybe calling?). And they practice, a la Hebrews 5. Ya can't practice something without being in touch with it.

And again, using the Vicky example, what fleshly heart of man thing told me she was involved in evil before there was anything present(ed) to give me that knowledge?

It seems to me that you're sooo afraid of that fleshly heart of man thing that you toss the spiritual things out the window with it.

 

[notuptome]

Uhm... so you believe in the gifts of healing, prophecy, etc? That kinda goes against everything I recall reading from you about the subject.

Some folks are "among" (I would use the word conscious of) the spirits because God grants them that gift (maybe calling?). And they practice, a la Hebrews 5. Ya can't practice something without being in touch with it.

And again, using the Vicky example, what fleshly heart of man thing told me she was involved in evil before there was anything present(ed) to give me that knowledge?

It seems to me that you're sooo afraid of that fleshly heart of man thing that you toss the spiritual things out the window with it.

You invite the demons into your life. I do not believe in faith healers but I do believe God heals in miraculous ways. I also know God is not obligated to heal in miracles as He can also heal by nature means.

Clearly there are three gifts that have ended according to 1 Cor 13:8. Three specific gifts not all the gifts. Prophecy is one of them along with tongues. You would know this as well if you really had a gift for discernment, scriptural discernment.

Your personal experiences are arbitrary and unverifiable so for me to endeavor to believe or disbelieve is irrelevant.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

You invite the demons into your life. I do not believe in faith healers but I do believe God heals in miraculous ways. I also know God is not obligated to heal in miracles as He can also heal by nature means.

Clearly there are three gifts that have ended according to 1 Cor 13:8. Three specific gifts not all the gifts. Prophecy is one of them along with tongues. You would know this as well if you really had a gift for discernment, scriptural discernment.

Your personal experiences are arbitrary and unverifiable so for me to endeavor to believe or disbelieve is irrelevant.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yeah that's what I expected, Roger. Picking and choosing, and refusing to answer the question. Probably because the answer doesn't agree with what you choose to believe. You almost remind me of someone who's lukewarm, choosing to go so far but no farther in the word of God.

End of discussion then. Thanks for your vacuous input.

 

[Blain]

You invite the demons into your life. I do not believe in faith healers but I do believe God heals in miraculous ways. I also know God is not obligated to heal in miracles as He can also heal by nature means.

Clearly there are three gifts that have ended according to 1 Cor 13:8. Three specific gifts not all the gifts. Prophecy is one of them along with tongues. You would know this as well if you really had a gift for discernment, scriptural discernment.

Your personal experiences are arbitrary and unverifiable so for me to endeavor to believe or disbelieve is irrelevant.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

My friend you say you dont believe in faith healers but you believe God heals, Do you not understand how faith healing works? Faith healing requires to lean on god 100% Anything is possible for anyone with a tiny bit of faith, a new believer could walk on water if it was Gods will. God is the one who heals the only currency he asks for is a tiny bit of faith weare not the ones who heal God does we are merely a vessel or an extension of his hand if u will.

You cannot put God in a box and you need the discernment to understand the scriptures in order to know what gifts are for today or not and healing is for today for sure in fact I doubt there isnt one gift that isnt for today but many of us have closed minds and hearts. Faith isnt something to do with mere logic and our own beliefs its a thing of the heart. You have to build your faith and relationship wit God with your heart and it does have a lot to do with emotions believe it or not. God is an emotional being he gave us emotions for a reason we are not robots.

Many Christians are indeed wise and surely know the bible but leave their hearts out of it. For instance how often do you connect intimately with God? Have you ever had tears in your eyes from the beauty and intimacy with him? Have you ever poured you love care and desire for him into your prayers? if you have not done these things you are missing out too many go about faith with their minds logic and reason and while this is good to do you have no idea the wonder and beauty- the true depths of his hearts untill you put your entire heart into faith. We christians do not see him with our eyes but our heart we do not speak to him with our lips and mind but our hearts.

The only thing that would make any gift not for today is how limited we have closed our minds and put God in a box

 

[RickyZ]

Highwayman, please explain your like on my post 29. You've maintained that general discernment is based upon human knowledge. How was it that I discerned evil behind Vicky when there was no human element available to impart such knowledge?

I think what differs between us is our goals. Book knowledge is wonderful, and your lesson was taken to heart. But I take it a step further, I'm not just concerned with what the books say, but also how it actually plays out with boots on the ground. If you look at the paper facts, our military should be kicking butts and taking names in the middle east. But the boots on the ground show that it doesn't actually work that way. And that's what I'm concerned with, how does it play out in real life.

I understand some of what you're saying, but the boots on the ground show that all evil is spiritually based, ergo all discernment of evil is spiritually based. And Vicky's is really only one of many experiences I've had that confirm this.

God bless you my friend. I guess in the end what is important is not what we call it or how we come to it, but that we learn to discern evil in whatever way we can. Perhaps that's a boots on the ground answer we both can believe in.

 

[The_highwayman]

Always makes me wonder why some folks are in among the demons and evil spirits. Perhaps they are among them for a reason.

Well Roger I can tell you that we are around evil spirits and demons 100% of the time when we go preach and teach the word of God in our Prison ministry. Prisons are ground zero for demonic/evil spirit activity.

The sad fact is, most churches today have evil spirits and demons all over the place and/or at least 1 if not more natural witches or warlocks attending and on assignment....There are exceptions of course, but the norm far outweighs the exceptions.

 

[The_highwayman]

You invite the demons into your life. I do not believe in faith healers but I do believe God heals in miraculous ways. I also know God is not obligated to heal in miracles as He can also heal by nature means.

Clearly there are three gifts that have ended according to 1 Cor 13:8. Three specific gifts not all the gifts. Prophecy is one of them along with tongues. You would know this as well if you really had a gift for discernment, scriptural discernment.

Your personal experiences are arbitrary and unverifiable so for me to endeavor to believe or disbelieve is irrelevant.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Roger, Have you ever encouraged, edified or exhorted anyone in church?

 

[The_highwayman]

You invite the demons into your life.

I never invite them into my life, but they come with our ministry, so I beleive the totality of scripture.

This includes that Jesus not only gave the 12 and 70 authority, but me as well. It is his authority not mine, when I take authority in the name of Jesus over evil spirits and the demonic they must bow at the name of Jesus.

I am not be able to do anything in my natural ability, but I have the Holy Ghost who shows me things to come and tells me all things, he works through this piece of clay and it is the Holy Ghost anointing, which destroys the yoke, lifts the burden and changes the life. God has been working through man since Adam and after the fall, that is how his will is established in the earth...

There is no demon or evil spirit that scares me....the first manifestation scared me, but faith grows in the knowledge of the word and the obedience to the leading of the Spirit.

I studied/study the Gospels for how Jesus dealt with death, sickness, disease, demonic and evil and that is my text book.

Copy and Paste what Jesus did...so far it's never failed...

 

[RickyZ]

Well said Highwayman. I know I shouldn't let Roger frustrate me, and I apologize for letting him do that to me here, but it just gets to me how someone so educated in scripture can have such a limited understanding of the spiritual realm. It kinda goes back to what I said about book knowledge vs spiritual experience. It's obvious that you have both, and while we may disagree on semantics, I know you're fighting the good fight against evil firsthand. Bless you and your ministry my friend.

 

[The_highwayman]

It's obvious that you have both, and while we may disagree on semantics, I know you're fighting the good fight against evil firsthand. Bless you and your ministry my friend.

This is why I liked your post, it hit me we are arguing semantics and not needed. We receive your blessing and blessings back to you and your family....oops dont tell roger but we just engaged in general prophecy....