Dispensationalism

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Pamella

Senior Member
Sep 10, 2014
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A little change of the current subject here.

Why couldn't God deal separately in a different way with Isreal (currently unsaved).
Certainly He must deal differently with the unsaved nations that have not yet heard of Jesus.
Actually, I 'heard' that most young people in Isreal are oblivious to their historic religion. Just like anywhere else have never even heard of the bible. Or a Torah then?
A doctor somebody went to the VA hospital to see asked her what that book she was carrying around. When she said a bible he said, oh what's that? He was a foreign doctor, I don't know from where, but I think he was from somewhere oriental.
My point is how can God judge or deal with ignorant people. He can't according to same standards as the ones who know.
 
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DP

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Sep 27, 2015
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What purpose does dispensationalism serve?
What is the whole point of it?
To try and give support for a previous false tradition that John Darby (1830s) latched onto, the pre-trib secret rapture theory. That's the ultimate purpose behind Dispensationalism.
 
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I guess this is one of the points we probably won't agree upon.

Cuz it seems pretty obvious that 2/3 of Jesus disciples were slaughtered and the rest went through the fire to test their faith and commitment.


I also thought the "rod of his mouth" was the Gospel.
I would agree the rod of rebellion..... all things written in the law and the prophets (the gospel) that God has designed to be against us as the one reforming authority of any generation. And if I could add the 2/3 (.666) is the number of unconverted man called a beast, with no reference to the Jew or the Gentile as if God was a respecter of persons.

By faith God purifies the heart of both in any generation giving them the Holy Spirit . That would seem to eliminate the need for dispensations.

One gospel for mankind . One bride made up of all the nations of people..

Pro 23:23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.


The 2/3 (666) would be the ones that think they can buy and sell God's truth , the gospel as if it was currency as something they could take to the grocery store or the bank.. While the 1/3 buy the gospel and do not sell .

Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.Mat 25:7

Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.Act 8:17
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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To try and give support for a previous false tradition that John Darby (1830s) latched onto, the pre-trib secret rapture theory. That's the ultimate purpose behind Dispensationalism.
ad hominem and without substance. The issue is, is it Scriptural?
Dispensational teaching is a natural outgrowth of a literal approach to Scripture.
 
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redeemed2014

Guest
To try and give support for a previous false tradition that John Darby (1830s) latched onto, the pre-trib secret rapture theory. That's the ultimate purpose behind Dispensationalism.
Eph 1:10
Eph 3:2
Col 1:25

In the KJV, MKJV, and the ESV the word dispensation is used. In the KJV-1611 and the Textus Receptus it is administration.
Dispensation is the english word of the greek word οἰκονομίαν (Oikonomia pronounced oy-kon-om-ee'-ah)

Both definitions are a match; administration (of a household or estate); specifically a (religious) economy: - dispensation, stewardship.

Dispensationalism is a way to say that God has different ways of dealing with mankind at different periods of time. For example the way the Lord dealt with Adam and Eve, to how He dealt with Noah were completely different, also to how He dealt with the Jew under the law. He also did this while never changing because the Lord is the same today as yesterday as He will be tomorrow.

The easiest way to explain this is (I see you also are an American so some of this is for the benefit of others) The United States elects a president who is a democrat who is in office for 8 years. He runs the country how he sees fit (whether we agree or not :rolleyes:) After his 8 year term limit is up, we elect a republican, who runs the country completely differently the way he sees fit. They both have very different ways of dealing with situations, and the economy, yet they both are still under the same Constitution of the United States which does not change.

The ultimate purpose of dispensationalism is to determine who/how/when the Lord is dealing with mankind and rightly dividing them to avoid confusion and mixing up of doctrines.

God Bless.
 
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It has to do with the stewardship of God. Stewardship is dispensation which is not time sensitive, In every generation God purifies the heart of man by work of his faith which comes from the hearing of faith,. By that work of God we receive the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. As in worked in the Old Testament believer it works in us to day .No difference. Same work of faith.... all coming from the mutual faith of Christ.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Act 15:7
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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God does not change, God is Love, from Adam to Today He hasn't changed and everything He does is for our Good. He has used different ways to reach different people at different times but that doesn't make the teachings of dispensationalism correct, They do not line up with the Bible.
 
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:smoke: as it is written
:read:

Ecclesiastes 3:14
I know that whatsoever things God has done, they shall be forever. It is impossible to add to it, and it is impossible to take away from it; and God has done it , that men should fear before Him.
15 That which has been is now; and whatever things are appointed to be have already been; and God will seek out that which is past.

:ty:

godbless us all always
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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Scottish Pastor Edward Irving was influenced by the book "Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty", during the 1820s. The book had been written by a Jesuit priest named Manuel Lacunza, but was published by the name "Ben Ezra". Irving translated the book from Spanish to English, added his own commentary and had the book published during 1827. Irving taught a form of Dispensational Theology at the Albury Prophetic conference.
As a system, dispensationalism developed from the Plymouth Brethren philosophy of the 1830s in Ireland and England, and in the teachings of John Nelson Darby (1800–82). The original concept came from Darby's interpretation of 2 Timothy 2:15, "...rightly dividing the word of truth".
While theologically orthodox, the Plymouth Brethren (Darby in particular) developed unique ideas regarding the interpretation of Scripture while emphasizing prophecy and the second coming of Christ. The theology of this movement became known as "Dispensationalism."

Darby travelled extensively to continental Europe, New Zealand, Canada, and the United States in an attempt to make converts to the Brethren philosophy. Over time, Darby's eschatological opinions became more popular in the United States, especially among Baptists and Old School Presbyterians.

I got this from reliable sources and if this is the History of this theory I would be careful because it doesn’t line up with scripture, it was invented by men, an interpretation of man.

Why did this interpretation become popular?
Is this rightly dividing the word of truth? 2 Ti 2:15
 
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TMS,

this is a very good, concise lesson in the roots of this particular theology...it's a tradition of man,
combining the history of theology with the traditions of men'...there are so many examples of this
today in modern Christianity that the average person just goes along with it, ...
a great example is of where and how the tradition of 'the sinner's prayer' got started by Billy Sunday...
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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ad hominem and without substance. The issue is, is it Scriptural?
Dispensational teaching is a natural outgrowth of a literal approach to Scripture.
Doesn't mean some aspects of it are not Bible-based, such as the different times in history when God revealed His Plan of Salvation. Its emphasis is on end time prophecy and a pre-trib rapture. God's Word doesn't support a pre-trib rapture.
 
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popeye

Guest
Doesn't mean some aspects of it are not Bible-based, such as the different times in history when God revealed His Plan of Salvation. Its emphasis is on end time prophecy and a pre-trib rapture. God's Word doesn't support a pre-trib rapture.
An out and out blatant lie

Your deal was soundly defeated by Gods word which your false debunked position makes 1 thes 4 a " lie"

Rev 14:14 is the thorn in your false doctrines saddle.

Stop acting like we have no verses. It is Gods word that you are forced to refute not definitions of words.
 
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in Hebrew, every word has a pictorial meaning, similar to Egyptian pictographs, each word is
interpreted from the '3' letter root word...and the message of the meaning starts from the central letter
to the enclosing letters, but the over-all Torah portion is interpreted as an example of Ex.1:1. thru
Ex. 6:1, is the Torah portion interpreted on a thematic connection starting at the beginning and
then there will be a similar theme towards the end and this pattern repeats itself until it comes to
to the main point of the story...which in this particular case, is 'deliverance'...

and furthermore, the words and the letters are counted and compared to other scriptures that has
the exact number of words and letters...which in this case, is the Priestly Blessing...
but, the over-all lesson is, that we STUDY the Scriptures, Word-by-Word, from the inward to the out-ward,
and then from the thematic connection outward, to the central main-point inward...

in short, KNOW the SCRIPTURES backwards and forwards, INSIDE and OUT and the complexity therein,
and at the same time, NEVER forgetting the SIMPLICITY of Jesus Christ...
 

Pamella

Senior Member
Sep 10, 2014
118
2
18
God does not change, God is Love, from Adam to Today He hasn't changed and everything He does is for our Good. He has used different ways to reach different people at different times but that doesn't make the teachings of dispensationalism correct, They do not line up with the Bible.
I still don't know what the teachings of dispensationalism is supposed to be exactly.
Does anybody have a link that simplifies it? Not two pages long.
Thanks.
 
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Pamella

Senior Member
Sep 10, 2014
118
2
18
Eph 1:10
Eph 3:2
Col 1:25

In the KJV, MKJV, and the ESV the word dispensation is used. In the KJV-1611 and the Textus Receptus it is administration.
Dispensation is the english word of the greek word οἰκονομίαν (Oikonomia pronounced oy-kon-om-ee'-ah)

Both definitions are a match; administration (of a household or estate); specifically a (religious) economy: - dispensation, stewardship.

Dispensationalism is a way to say that God has different ways of dealing with mankind at different periods of time. For example the way the Lord dealt with Adam and Eve, to how He dealt with Noah were completely different, also to how He dealt with the Jew under the law. He also did this while never changing because the Lord is the same today as yesterday as He will be tomorrow.

The easiest way to explain this is (I see you also are an American so some of this is for the benefit of others) The United States elects a president who is a democrat who is in office for 8 years. He runs the country how he sees fit (whether we agree or not :rolleyes:) After his 8 year term limit is up, we elect a republican, who runs the country completely differently the way he sees fit. They both have very different ways of dealing with situations, and the economy, yet they both are still under the same Constitution of the United States which does not change.

The ultimate purpose of dispensationalism is to determine who/how/when the Lord is dealing with mankind and rightly dividing them to avoid confusion and mixing up of doctrines.

God Bless.
Could you explain how someone would mix up doctrines? Examples?
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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Could you explain how someone would mix up doctrines? Examples?
Really simple, because that's exactly what Dispensationalism does, i.e., "mix up doctrines".

One of the tenets of Darby's Dispensational theory is that the Church is raptured to Heaven prior to the tribulation while Israel remains on earth to go through it, and Israel is made a fleshy nation on earth during Christ's 1,000 year reign with Christ and His elect reigning from... Heaven. Dispensationalism specifically tries... to keep God's Israel and Christ's Church separate.

In reality though per Scripture, God split old Israel after Solomon's days into two separate kingdoms, and scattered ten tribes among the Gentiles where they to this day are still lost among, many of them having believed and becoming Christ's Church along with believing Gentiles. Many of the Jews that were scattered after the Babylon captivity became part of Christ's Church also. Only the 3-tribe kingdom of Judah would become the Jews of Bible history, and the majority of them would refuse Jesus, even to this day.

So in that, where is there an actual point of separation between so-called 'National Israel' and Christ's Church which Dispensationalism suggests? There is none, those born of Israel which remain in unbelief will simply be 'cut off' like Paul taught in Romans 11. When one says The New Covenant they are saying Christ's Church, and that applies especially for believing Israel, and not only Gentile believers. This is why Paul in Ephesians 2 declared believing Gentiles having become part of the "commonwealth of Israel", not some commonwealth of the Church.

Then from Darby's Dispensationalist theories came Hyper-Dispensationalism (Bullinger) which took John Darby's ideas further by using Apostle Paul's teaching on the "mystery" that The Gospel would also go to the Gentile.

And now what you have mostly coming here on this forum to push such Dispensationalist theories are those raised up in a Church system that follows one of those men's teachings instead of disciplining themselves in God's Word with help of The Holy Spirit.
 
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redeemed2014

Guest
Could you explain how someone would mix up doctrines? Examples?
If you take a verse and do not clearly understand to who and when it was written doctrines will get mixed up. For example with the abundance of threads about mixing law and grace. Law was for the Jew under the covenant. Once the Lord made himself the perfect sacrifice being accepted of God and imputed us HIS righteousness through the death, burial, and Resurrection, grace was passed to all (Jew and Gentile) who believe in HIS finished work of the cross. If you do not understand that that law was to the Jew you would then be led to believe that all (Jew and Gentile) would be under the law.

God Bless.
 

DP

Banned
Sep 27, 2015
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Something to add to redeemed2014 response, some Scripture that was specifically written with Jesus speaking to His or someone else can... still apply to all of Christ's Church. For example, when Jesus gave His Olivet Discourse to His disciples upon the Mount of Olives, he was not just giving that to them only, but to His Church, meaning those who would come later. This is why it was preserved in The Gospel Books, and parallels His Revelation.

Likewise with the Old Testament prophets, there are Scriptures of history which serve as blueprints for another later fulfillment type, like the Babylon captivity events in Daniel's era paralleled in our Lord's Book of Revelation for the end, even with the words "Babylon is fallen, is fallen" from an historical event in Isaiah 21 being quoted again in Revelation for the end.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Someone recently shared this article with me on dispensationalism.

Dispensational Guidelines

Matthew McGee

When studying any Bible passage, it is always very important to understand the context of the passage. If we do not understand the context of a passage, we will often misunderstand the passage itself. One aspect of the context which is often overlooked is the dispensation. God has provided His Word in the Bible in several different dispensations. Every Bible passage is written in the context of one dispensation or another. Therefore, proper understanding of the different dispensations is needed in order to understand the context of each Bible passage. After becoming aware of this need, many Bible students will then ask about how they can determine which dispensation any particular Bible passage is under, so that they can more fully comprehend the context of the passage. These questions are the focus of several of the articles on this web site, which cover this subject in detail, including The Basics of Understanding the Bible, Israel's Kingdom Gospel and Our Grace Gospel, and The Seven Churches of Revelation. In addition to these articles, it may be helpful to have a concise list of key guidelines for dispensational study of the Bible. Therefore, some general guidelines for determining the dispensation of almost any Bible passage have been listed below along with a diagram which illustrates the timeline of the dispensations. The discussion following each of the guidelines has been kept brief intentionally, in order to provide a concise listing. For further detail, please refer to the articles listed above.

1. The grace dispensation began in about 37 AD when God called Paul and saved him in Acts 9.

From the time God gave Moses the law in Exodus to the calling of Paul in Acts 9, the context of the scriptures had been the dispensation of the law. The book of Acts chronicles the transition from one dispensation to another. With the calling of Paul, God began a new dispensation, the dispensation of grace, which still continues today. Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 1:15-16, "... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting." Thus we see that Paul was the "first" in this dispensation of grace and a "pattern" for us who have believed the gospel of grace since then.

2. The dispensation of the law was put on hold when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD.

The destruction of the temple made it totally impossible for Jews to keep the law of Moses. Therefore the transition from law to the grace dispensation was completed in 70 AD. As shown in the diagram, the dispensation of the law will resume when the seven-year tribulation begins, after the rapture of the church. The dispensation of the law will have its fulfillment in the 1000 year kingdom dispensation.

3. During the transition period from 37-70 AD God revealed a multitude of mysteries to Paul to give to the church of the grace dispensation which was and still is mainly Gentile. God did not reveal the multitude of mysteries to Paul all at once, but gradually over many years.

In 2 Corinthians 12:7, Paul wrote, "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh ...." Just a few verses earlier, Paul had written in 2 Corinthians 12:1, "It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord." In these two verses, Paul lets us know that he has already received from the Lord many revelations of many mysteries (or as some would prefer to say it: "many revelations of many aspects of the mystery"). He is also letting us know that he will receive many revelations of many mysteries in the future. These words in 2 Corinthians were written in about 57 AD, while Paul was in Macedonia on his third journey. This was while the events recorded in Acts 20:4-5 were taking place. Therefore we see that Jesus Christ was revealing mysteries to Paul throughout the 37-70 AD transition period from Paul's calling some 20 years earlier in Acts 9 and continuing for the next few years.

Naturally, as Paul was given more and more knowledge of God and His will for this grace dispensation, the corresponding doctrines were in turn revealed in Paul's letters. Also some of the deeper mysteries are not revealed until the latter part of Paul's ministry, not showing up until the books of Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians around 61-63 AD. But the earlier letters of Paul are still teaching and instructions for the grace dispensation as well.

4. The ministry of the twelve apostles of the circumcision was limited to the people of Israel.

The only exception was Peter's trip to the house of Cornelius. The proselytes were Gentiles who had converted to the Jews' religion including circumcision and keeping the law of Moses. They were treated no differently from the Jews, as was the case with Nicolas in Acts 6:5. The Samaritans were basically Israelites whose bloodlines had been blended with some Gentiles. The Hellenists (referred to in the KJV as "Grecians") were Jews that had taken on the Greek culture and language. Still, the proselytes, Samaritans, and Hellenists were all under the dispensation of the law. So those at the house of Cornelius are the only non-proselyte Gentiles to which any of the twelve ever ministered their gospel of the kingdom. Even in that case, the gospel of the kingdom was edited for Gentile consumption, since no requirement of circumcision or keeping the law of Moses was included. Many years later, Peter wrote two letters to Jews who had been scattered out of Israel during the transition period. But these were not the Jews that had received the grace teaching of Paul. These were Jews who had been saved under the kingdom gospel under the teaching of the twelve.

5. Paul's grace ministry was to the Gentiles and the Jews living among them, outside of the land of Israel.

The Jews in Israel would not be receptive to Paul's teaching, and God knew this. In Acts 22, Paul recounts to the Jews in Jerusalem, his experience when he was in Jerusalem many years earlier in Acts 9. Acts 22:17-21 says, "And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance; And saw him (Jesus) saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me. And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee: And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him. And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles." Even after nearly 20 years, the Jews in the land of Israel still would not accept Paul's message which included the Gentiles in this way. The next verse says, "And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live ..." (Acts 22:22).

6. Along with the great wealth of knowledge found in the book of Genesis, we also find the history of the dispensations which came before the law of Moses.

These dispensations are (as shown in the diagram above) innocence (Genesis 1-3), conscience (Genesis 3-8), human government (Genesis 9-11), and promise (Genesis 12-50).

7. Exodus-Malachi, Matthew-John, and Hebrews-Revelation are written to the nation of Israel for the dispensation of the law which will have its fulfillment in the kingdom.

Galatians 2:7-9 says, "... when they (the other apostles) saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles. And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen (Gentiles), and they unto the circumcision (Israel)."

8. Romans-Philemon are Paul’s thirteen letters to the Gentiles for this present dispensation of grace.

Paul wrote in Romans 11:13, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office ...." Paul is our apostle. Thus he says in 2 Timothy 1:13 "Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus." Also he says in Philippians 3:17, "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample."

9. Acts is the book of transition between the law and grace dispensations.

Therefore, special care must be taken when studying the book of Acts to recognize the dispensational context of each passage. In general, if Peter is speaking to Jews, it is for the kingdom dispensation, but if Paul is speaking to Gentiles, it is for the grace dispensation.

Certainly this is not an exhaustive list of all points of consideration, but these are the essential points that can help a student positively determine the dispensation of almost any Bible passage.
 
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ad hominem and without substance. The issue is, is it Scriptural?
Dispensational teaching is a natural outgrowth of a literal approach to Scripture.
I would think it is another approach. But would not to say it is a literal compared to non literal .

Sometimes looking at the meaning a word helps us to learn how to rightly divide.( to cut straight) .While the word dispensation (stewardship) is not a time sensitive when used in the scriptures .It simply means; the management of a household or of household affairs.

Seeing God does not change.He puts puts no difference between a Jew and Gentile purifying their heart by a work of His faith in every generation. It is by faith he does manage as he does work in the believer to both will and do his good pleasure..

By changing the the meaning of a word by adding to it a new meaning it can subtract form the whole. There are two warning in the scriptures. The first while God was still adding new revelations is found in Deuteronomy 4:2

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

This is in respect to one word change the meaning as to the intent then changing the direction of the gospel can change.

When the last chapter was revealed to John on the island of Patmos. He added the final warning .Not to add any new revelations words (plural) seeing they would be of men and not of God now that we have the whole/perfect . we dare not add to it.


For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Rev 22:18

So then it is; do not add to a word singular the first warning, And the last; do not add to the perfect.


Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.1Co 13:10


The above is two fold. The perfect/complete has come in respect to the word of God which is sealed up till the end of time and we are waiting for a new incorruptible bodies in the future.
 
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