Do agnostics go to hell?

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CS1

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May 23, 2012
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Interestingly, some Old Testament individuals did see Jesus Christ, including Abraham:

"56 [Jesus:] Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

- John 8:56-58
None of the Old Testament Prophets were agnostics LOL They f Knew God and had a relationship with HIM. They had dialogue with the Living God.
What about all of the Old Testament prophets that did not know Christ?
Where are they? :unsure:
None of the Old Testament Prophets were agnostics LOL They f Knew God and had a relationship with HIM. They had dialogue with the Living God.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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What about all of the Old Testament prophets that did not know Christ?
Where are they? :unsure:
None of the Old Testament Prophets were agnostics LOL They f Knew God and had a relationship with HIM. They had dialogue with the Living God.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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This sword cuts two ways.

Show me the passage that says judgement happens before judgement day (the day when people are called out of hell to be judged)
That wasn’t the issue, they were saying mankind gets a 2nd chance after hell/Sheol.
The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus disproves that theory.
 

Jocund

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That wasn’t the issue, they were saying mankind gets a 2nd chance after hell/Sheol.
The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus disproves that theory.
When the Rich man was in hell that is not to say that he was judged yet. Judgement doesn't happen before or during hell. No one spends forever in hell. The lake of fire is the final destination for some, only when the day of judgement has come. There is nothing in scripture that says a person in hell couldn't repent and find Christ. "Judgement at the moment of death" is an RCC doctrine, not scriptural.
 

crossnote

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When the Rich man was in hell that is not to say that he was judged yet. Judgement doesn't happen before or during hell
You may not realize it but mankind has already been judged...Only through Jesus are they forgiven.

John 3:18 (KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No one spends forever in hell.
That's right...

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. (Rev 20:13)

The lake of fire is the final destination for some, only when the day of judgement has come. There is nothing in scripture that says a person in hell couldn't repent and find Christ. "Judgement at the moment of death" is an RCC doctrine, not scriptural.
Arguing from silence is an eternal gamble, especially in the light of such verses as this...

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. (Heb 9:27-28)

Judgment before death is what I mentioned above, besides, a 2nd chance in hell sounds more like Purgatory, now that is an RCC doctrine!
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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You may not realize it but mankind has already been judged...Only through Jesus are they forgiven.

John 3:18 (KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


That's right...

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. (Rev 20:13)



Arguing from silence is an eternal gamble, especially in the light of such verses as this...

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. (Heb 9:27-28)

Judgment before death is what I mentioned above, besides, a 2nd chance in hell sounds more like Purgatory, now that is an RCC doctrine!
that is true those who have not come to the saving knowledge of the lord yet are already on their way to Hell.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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that is true those who have not come to the saving knowledge of the lord yet are already on their way to Hell.
You’d think that would end the debate, but oh no, our fallen logic will still find ways around it.
 

Jocund

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Jan 14, 2021
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You may not realize it but mankind has already been judged...Only through Jesus are they forgiven.

John 3:18 (KJV) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Condemned, but the judgement has not yet been made. Clearly an unbeliever can become a believer, therefore this status can change up until the day of judgement. Think about how John 3:18 applies.

You still have not presented any passage that clearly indicates that judgement occurs before judgement day, nor that bodily death is the moment of judgement. Being in hell isn't judgement.

Death and hell.

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." - Rev 20:13 KJV


Arguing from silence is an eternal gamble, especially in the light of such verses as this...

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. (Heb 9:27-28)

Judgment before death is what I mentioned above,
No. The passage says a man dies. After death comes judgement. Revelation 20:13 places that judgement on the day of judgement. Not before death. Not at the moment of death. Not the millisecond after death... But very clearly: on judgement day.

besides, a 2nd chance in hell sounds more like Purgatory, now that is an RCC doctrine!
You can make a strawman all you want, there is nothing in scripture that says that a man can't turn to Christ while in hell. There is nothing to say that most people don't spend some time in hell as part of the transformation.

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" - 1 Corinthians 15:51
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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... nothing in scripture that says that a man can't turn to Christ while in hell.
Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Condemned, but the judgement has not yet been made. Clearly an unbeliever can become a believer, therefore this status can change up until the day of judgement. Think about how John 3:18 applies.
Right,
Hebrews 9:27 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
You still have not presented any passage that clearly indicates that judgement occurs before judgement day, nor that bodily death is the moment of judgement. Being in hell isn't judgement.
Try this (of course you are already set in your ways)...

Psalm 115:17 (KJV) The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed" - 1 Corinthians 15:51
Waaa? Why a rapture verse?

How about giving me a clear verse showing the unbeliever has a second chance?
 

Jocund

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Jan 14, 2021
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Abraham answered, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted here, while you are in agony. And besides all this, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that even those who wish cannot cross from here to you, nor can anyone cross from there to us.’
Luke 16:25 is indeed a depiction of hell and the conditions of life that brought someone to hell, but that is not the final judgement. There is nothing to indicate how the rich man would eventually be judged on the judgement day, when the dead are brought out of hell. We can speculate, but there is nothing to indicate that the rich man is necessarily excluded from the opportunity to accept Christ while in hell.
 
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no babies do not go to hell why do they not go? is it because they are agnostics? No. it has everything to do with the righteous judgment of God. 61 million abortions of living beings were murdered that God fully knew while in the womb. As a normative those who are not babies who have come to the knowledge and tasted of it sinned. Babies have not done so. that is not an argument an agnostic has made a choice to believe that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God. babies are not agnostics.
Do you think basing from your arguments that the best way to save humanity from hell is by abortions? If God fully knew them in the womb , then that makes them perfectly human and their death before being born indirectly saved them from hell. Therefore , suggesting that there is a sure way that a man can be saved from hell - abortions. Do you agree?
And why i call it a sure way based on what you have written? It is because, the unborn can't be blamed if they don't believe in Christ because they were never born into the world to have matured and have the mind to reject or accept Him as their Savior. Therefore , not even giving them the choice, they are being saved?
So why do you think abortion is such a huge problem when their eternities are being secured?
If hell is an awful place and if you would truly love your fellow humans and not want them to suffer eternal pain...then don't you think helping them not go there is nothing but an act of love? regardless of the means.
 
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Who wants to be glorified?. all people want is peace and happiness and to avoid the eternal horror of hell . But LO and BEHOLD> Christians preach that they will go to hell if they don't accept Christ as their Saviour indirectly implying that many babies and mentally sick who can't make a decision are the ones that can be saved apart from those who make the decision of choosing Christ.Basically saying that abortion and being mentally ill is a ticket to being saved without being questioned because these didn't have the mental maturity to make a decision. Therefore implying that having mental immaturity is actually a gift?!
 
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The only way to be glorified is to recieve Jesus. John 1.12 .
Who wants to be glorified?. all people want is peace and happiness and to avoid the eternal horror of hell . But LO and BEHOLD> Christians preach that they will go to hell if they don't accept Christ as their Saviour indirectly implying that many babies and mentally sick who can't make a decision are the ones that can be saved apart from those who make the decision of choosing Christ.Basically saying that abortion and being mentally ill is a ticket to being saved without being questioned because these didn't have the mental maturity to make a decision. Therefore implying that having mental immaturity is actually a gift?!
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Who wants to be glorified?. all people want is peace and happiness and to avoid the eternal horror of hell . But LO and BEHOLD> Christians preach that they will go to hell if they don't accept Christ as their Saviour indirectly implying that many babies and mentally sick who can't make a decision are the ones that can be saved apart from those who make the decision of choosing Christ.Basically saying that abortion and being mentally ill is a ticket to being saved without being questioned because these didn't have the mental maturity to make a decision. Therefore implying that having mental immaturity is actually a gift?!
Equally we could say that they didn't have the mental faculties to reject the salvation offered to the world.

Matthew 19:14 (KJV) But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

'little children' (paidon), very small child.

But abortion is still judged as murder.
 

Jocund

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Jan 14, 2021
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Right,
Hebrews 9:27 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
"For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear." - Mark 4:28

Clearly, Mark 4:28 doesn't mean that the moment an ear forms that it is immediately full of corn. Why would you assume that the judgement after death means that it is immediately after death? Especially when that judgement is explained in Revelation. To say that the judgement happens immediately after death is to shoehorn a favoured interpretation at the expense of the book of Revelation.

(of course you are already set in your ways)...
Drop the personal attacks.

Psalm 115:17 (KJV) The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Digging back into the OT. Interesting, but is praise required for salvation? No.

On a further look, there is an interesting line that does play well with the concept of being judged by life's works:

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." - 2 Corinthians 5:10

But, when considered in conjunction with the trial by fire, it makes sense:

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15

Beyond even the dividing line between saved and not saved, there is a spectrum that those that are saved fall onto. Even those that are saved should strive to be better so that they may save and retain more of themselves. Those that categorically are saved may not have much reward by the outcome of judgement.

Waaa? Why a rapture verse?
The chapter is a discussion of transformation after death and the resurrection. I'm not familiar with your theory of rapture.

How about giving me a clear verse showing the unbeliever has a second chance?
"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 8:38-39

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." - Acts 16:31
 
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You are describing a teenager's immaturity, not cognitive accountability. Doubt is a battle all will fight as Christians. Doing so doesn't mean they are agnostic. In addition, the context of what is an agnostic is not what we want to make it to be to justify our unwillingness to action our "faith" because I have not had my intellect groomed enough to agree there is a God.

The word of God is clear. those who come to God Must believe that He is, and a reward of those who seek Him diligently.

the child is just that a child. God holds the parent responsible for not teaching them about God. it is hard for agnostics to teach children about God is they are wavering in faith.
You said God holds the parent responsible for not teaching them about God
What about orphans then?
 

peldom10

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May 22, 2020
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You said God holds the parent responsible for not teaching them about God
What about orphans then?

By definition ....."orphan"....there are no parents to hold responsible...to us.
However, God knows the parents and yes they will be held responsible...in some form...determined by our Just God.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Luke 16:25 is indeed a depiction of hell and the conditions of life that brought someone to hell, but that is not the final judgement. There is nothing to indicate how the rich man would eventually be judged on the judgement day, when the dead are brought out of hell. We can speculate, but there is nothing to indicate that the rich man is necessarily excluded from the opportunity to accept Christ while in hell.
Sure: nothing aside from a great chasm that has been fixed between two groups
of people, so that even those who wish cannot cross from one side to another.


To say otherwise is to reject the very words of Jesus Christ Himself.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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"For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear." - Mark 4:28

Clearly, Mark 4:28 doesn't mean that the moment an ear forms that it is immediately full of corn. Why would you assume that the judgement after death means that it is immediately after death? Especially when that judgement is explained in Revelation. To say that the judgement happens immediately after death is to shoehorn a favoured interpretation at the expense of the book of Revelation.
There is nothing clear about that. You are taking an illustration Jesus used to show the growth of the Kingdom of Heaven to defend a 2nd chance after we die? I'm not buying it.
Drop the personal attacks.
That was a compliment as much as an attack. Convictions are good if based in His Word.
Digging back into the OT. Interesting, but is praise required for salvation? No.

On a further look, there is an interesting line that does play well with the concept of being judged by life's works:
Praise is the result of salvation and the saved don't die.
Beyond even the dividing line between saved and not saved, there is a spectrum that those that are saved fall onto. Even those that are saved should strive to be better so that they may save and retain more of themselves. Those that categorically are saved may not have much reward by the outcome of judgement.
Do you know what entering into His rest means? There is no more striving.
The chapter is a discussion of transformation after death and the resurrection. I'm not familiar with your theory of rapture.
The rapture isn't a theory, it is Scripture...

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
(1Th 4:13-18)

"For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 8:38-39

"And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." - Acts 16:31
I'm sorry, I meant a second chance after the unbeliever dies. Show me your strongest verse.